IRC log of rqtf on 2021-09-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:49:02 [RRSAgent]
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12:49:02 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-rqtf-irc
12:49:04 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:49:05 [Zakim]
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12:49:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:49:06 [trackbot]
Date: 01 September 2021
12:49:19 [jasonjgw]
zakim, list agenda
12:49:19 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
12:49:25 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Joint working group meetings and break-out sessions planned for TPAC 2021.
12:49:25 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements.
12:49:25 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Accessibility of Remote Meetings.
12:49:25 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.
12:49:25 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
12:49:38 [jasonjgw]
zakim, list agena
12:49:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'list agena', jasonjgw
12:49:43 [jasonjgw]
zakim, list agenda
12:49:43 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
12:49:44 [Zakim]
1. Joint working group meetings and break-out sessions planned for TPAC 2021. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:44 [Zakim]
2. Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:44 [Zakim]
3. Accessibility of Remote Meetings. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:44 [Zakim]
4. Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:44 [Zakim]
5. Miscellaneous topics. [from jasonjgw]
12:50:18 [jasonjgw]
present+
12:50:23 [jasonjgw]
chair: jasonjgw
12:56:47 [janina]
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12:56:56 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
12:56:56 [Zakim]
Present: jasonjgw
12:56:57 [Judy]
[jb: regrets for the beginning of the call, will join as soon as gets out of another call]
12:56:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, jasonjgw, Judy, MichaelC, Joshue108, trackbot
12:57:10 [janina]
present+
12:57:13 [janina]
agenda?
12:59:22 [Joshue108]
Present+
13:02:47 [Joshue108]
Off-page link for the captionmax transcript: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=WorldWideConsortium
13:03:26 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:03:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Joint working group meetings and break-out sessions planned for TPAC 2021. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:03:43 [SteveNoble]
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13:03:50 [SteveNoble]
present+
13:04:05 [janina]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
13:04:11 [scott_h]
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13:04:50 [SteveNoble]
janina: some TPAC meetings have moved - so be sure to check the schedule
13:06:06 [Raja]
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13:06:15 [SteveNoble]
scott_h: +1 to Janina's work on scheduling
13:07:48 [SteveNoble]
janina: connection to RQTF...besides timed text, maybe personalization is another area
13:09:08 [SteveNoble]
janina: metadata on media accessibility options (captions, video descriptions, etc.) - these options often vary from one streaming service to another
13:10:09 [Raja]
So, what can be standardized?
13:10:29 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: EPUB spec does include metadata requirement for the item, plus push through to EPUB distributors
13:11:44 [Joshue108]
Q?
13:12:02 [Joshue108]
Agenda?
13:12:24 [Joshue108]
SN: Raja asked a question in IRC on standardisation - what can be standardised?
13:12:35 [Joshue108]
JS: Raja can you please restate question?
13:12:51 [Joshue108]
RK: Yes, I was talking about meta data but I’m not an expert
13:14:04 [SteveNoble]
janina: One issue is simply figuring out who to include in the conversation'
13:14:48 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:14:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:15:23 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: A lot of work has been going on
13:15:48 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Believe we have addressed enough of the outstanding issues
13:16:29 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Have incorporated the new BBC white paper and an editors note around the issue of accuracy in ASR
13:16:36 [Raja]
+q
13:17:10 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Should we request publication at this point to get wide review?
13:18:03 [SteveNoble]
Joshue108: Yes...it seems good to go. Just would like Steve to review
13:18:26 [Joshue108]
Q+ Janina
13:18:32 [Joshue108]
Ack raja
13:18:47 [SteveNoble]
Raja: Regarding ASR change it is improved is looking beter
13:19:22 [SteveNoble]
Raja: Need to be careful in how we decide to leave this since we do expect more changes
13:20:14 [Joshue108]
SN: We have the doc in good shape
13:20:29 [Joshue108]
We do have some questions - addressed in editors note etc
13:21:12 [Joshue108]
The issue around ASR is between what is the real world experience is like
13:21:38 [Joshue108]
It is seen to be lacking in standard Zoom calls for example - but this is the MVP
13:21:49 [Joshue108]
You can pay more for premium product
13:22:03 [Joshue108]
There is variability
13:22:16 [Joshue108]
Most metrics are from lab type environments
13:22:36 [Joshue108]
Different from e’day life
13:23:47 [Joshue108]
Ack jan
13:23:53 [janina]
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/
13:23:58 [Raja]
Yes, the notion of variability and premium products won't change soon, and is important to share
13:24:48 [SteveNoble]
janina: The type of document we are working on is a "Note"
13:25:50 [SteveNoble]
janina: This is a "working draft" meaning that it is not done, and since it is the "first" working draft we will assume that there will be another draft
13:26:15 [SteveNoble]
janina: We work on it until we are satisfied
13:26:44 [SteveNoble]
janina: Suggest that we reference the recent FCC posting
13:27:27 [Joshue108]
Q?
13:27:38 [SteveNoble]
janina: Otherwise it will look like we have ignored it
13:29:13 [Raja]
+1
13:29:17 [Raja]
+q
13:29:40 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Around a recent FCC announcement on the ability of a vendor to use ASR
13:29:49 [Judy]
q+
13:30:03 [Raja]
CaptionCalls got certification to supplement human captions with ASR yesterday
13:30:26 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: We could simply cite the reference
13:30:54 [Raja]
Other caption providers got permission several months ago -- Olelo and another provider I can't remember at the moment
13:31:20 [janina]
https://www.fcc.gov/document/ip-cts-asr-only-authorization-granted-captioncall
13:31:27 [Raja]
Just having permission doesn't carry force of law
13:32:00 [Joshue108]
Ack raja
13:32:36 [SteveNoble]
Raja: Yes...the new order allows ASR if there are not enough human captioners
13:33:09 [SteveNoble]
Raja: Other providers also received such permissions earlier this year
13:33:35 [janina]
q+
13:33:48 [SteveNoble]
Raja: This may help support the case that ASR is seen as becoming more acceptable
13:34:34 [Raja]
https://www.fcc.gov/document/machinegenius-certified-automatic-speech-recognition-ip-cts
13:34:54 [Raja]
https://www.machinegenius.com/
13:35:20 [SteveNoble]
Judy: The understanding is that this applies to limited circumstances, so we want to look at this more seriously
13:36:22 [Raja]
Clarity and ASR: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-364731A1.pdf
13:36:44 [SteveNoble]
Judy: Also W3C is international and the FCC is just one country, plus ASR is much better normed for English; therefore we want our document more international in its approach
13:37:02 [Judy]
ack judy
13:37:05 [Judy]
ack ja
13:37:42 [SteveNoble]
janina: The metrics are indeed controlled, and real life is not a test lab
13:38:31 [Judy]
q+
13:38:32 [SteveNoble]
janina: We are trying to say something about a US agency has approved use in constrained circumstances
13:39:56 [SteveNoble]
Judy: Other parts of the world do not have the same availability
13:39:58 [Raja]
ASR will almost certainly be worse for languages used by small populations
13:40:39 [SteveNoble]
janina: Can we continue discussion in email?
13:40:42 [Raja]
I agree with the level of caution.
13:42:09 [Joshue108]
SN: This note of caution is fine
13:42:16 [Joshue108]
Q?
13:42:19 [Joshue108]
Ack Judy
13:43:15 [Joshue108]
ASR sync - is much more quick in generating captions..
13:43:31 [Joshue108]
There are issues in quality and accuracy - that’s the main thing.
13:43:46 [Joshue108]
JW: This document is not talking a position on ASR just noting it.
13:44:20 [Joshue108]
SN: +1 to having a position of caution is good - and we are acknowledging limitations
13:44:31 [Judy]
q+
13:44:38 [Joshue108]
JW: We could leave the text untouched and cite these in the next round?
13:44:45 [Joshue108]
JS: I’d like to avoid that
13:44:47 [Joshue108]
Ack judy
13:45:17 [SteveNoble]
Judy: Adding the clarifications will be very valuable
13:47:11 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Cited a 2019 paper that did referenced speaker variability
13:47:14 [Judy]
s/very valuable/very valuable -- also refering to language diversity in the country that just issued this decision
13:48:51 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Are there other items in the note we need to address?
13:48:54 [Judy]
q+
13:49:51 [Judy]
ack ju
13:52:48 [janina]
DRAFT RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA conduct a Call for Consensus on publication of a First Public Working Draft of the Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements (RQTF) https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/main/saur/ once our Editor's Note is updated by agreement to address recently published guidance from the U.S. FCC
13:53:16 [Joshue108]
SN: <reads draft resolution>
13:55:46 [SteveNoble]
RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA conduct a Call for Consensus on publication of a First Public Working Draft of the Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements (SAUR) https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/main/saur/ once our Editor's Note is updated by agreement to address recently published guidance from the U.S. FCC
13:57:29 [Joshue108]
JS: Many thanks to Steve
13:58:23 [SteveNoble]
Judy: thanks to captioners and interpreters on the call
13:59:18 [SteveNoble]
janina: Josh can mint the URI
14:00:03 [jasonjgw]
zakim, bye
14:00:03 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, Joshue, SteveNoble
14:00:03 [Zakim]
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14:00:42 [jasonjgw]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw
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