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14:59:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:08 <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2021
15:00:06 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
15:00:47 <shawn> agenda+ Introductions (Jon ~10 mins)
15:00:47 <shawn> agenda+ Work modes (Jon ~15 mins)
15:00:47 <shawn> agenda+ Past work overview (Chris ~10 mins)
15:00:48 <shawn> agenda+ Current work options (Chris ~15 mins)
15:00:48 <shawn> agenda+ Next steps (Chris ~5 mins)
15:01:16 <ChrisLoiselle> scribe: ChrisLoiselle
15:03:46 <AndySomers> AndySomers has joined #lvtf
15:04:29 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:04:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions (Jon ~10 mins) -- taken up [from shawn]
15:04:47 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #lvtf
15:04:52 <bruce_bailey> present+
15:04:58 <AndySomers> present+
15:05:08 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: Speaks to agenda items, introductions.
15:05:13 <shawn> present: ChrisLoiselle, JonAvila, ShawnHenry, BruceBailey, SamWaller, AmeenahGhoston, KimBorowicz, BhoomikaBhagchandani, LauraCarlson, AndrewSomers, CammieTruesdell
15:05:34 <Sam_Waller> Sam_Waller has joined #lvtf
15:05:49 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: If you need accommodations, please let us know, happy to help.
15:06:14 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: The LVTF is part of Accessibility Guideline Working Group. I've been in space for about 20 years.
15:07:05 <shawn> ChrisL: Recentrly working in Silver on visual contrast of text. Work at Oracle.
15:08:10 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnH: I've been on staff for W3C for 18 years.  I mostly work in Education and Outreach and have personal interest in Low Vision.
15:09:49 <ChrisLoiselle> BruceB: I work at the Access Board, we develop the regulations around Accessibility. I've been in the area for 30 years. I've been following the work of the accessibility guidelines through 1.0 through to current WCAG. I helped develop contrast on WCAG 2.0.
15:11:11 <ChrisLoiselle> AndrewS: I came across work within contrast and visual perception. Concentrate on readability. I came up with algorithms and a tool that is significantly different than current WCAG tools.
15:11:45 <ChrisLoiselle> ... Originally based on Silver , but working on next version as well. Open to comments and improvements.
15:11:58 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: WCAG 3.0 is code named Silver internally to W3C
15:15:19 <ChrisLoiselle> KimB: I'm new to 508 space, I work at USDL , worked in disability rights space for many years. Low Vision , Colorblind . I've worked in cross disability spaces , housing etc.
15:16:51 <AndySomers> The SAPC technology demonstrator https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/
15:17:10 <AndySomers> Click on "Research mode" for interactive experiments
15:17:43 <ChrisLoiselle> BhoomikaB: I also am new to the group and tech space. Background is in research and social science. Received PhD in travel issues for visually impaired. Pivoting to UX field and Accessibility space.
15:19:50 <ChrisLoiselle> AmeenahG: I am not new to 508, I'm with Dept of Defense , cybersecurity area. Implementing 508 in area creates fun challenges to resolve. I'm totally Blind. I am hoping to help the user experience for the war fighter and increase accessibility for those users.
15:20:16 <ChrisLoiselle> ...been around area for 20 years. Been program manager for 4 years.
15:20:57 <shawn> q+ to say quick reply
15:21:05 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:21:43 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnH: We are working on that on Education Outreach and would love to help with that topic.
15:21:52 <shawn> q- shawn
15:24:15 <ChrisLoiselle> SamW: University of Cambridge, 13 years in design. Measure user's vision ability and how that relates to products .  Takes into consideration how it would impact population.  Interested in WCAG 3. and visual clear iconography , then move into text  on spacing, type face, etc. I'm interested in the segments of vision, aging, normal range, low vision, etc.
15:25:10 <shawn> q+ to reply to Sam
15:25:22 <ChrisLoiselle> ... I'm interested slicing the low vision segments and categories.
15:25:51 <ChrisLoiselle> AndyS: Talked to in Laws, etc.
15:26:22 <ChrisLoiselle> KimB: It depends in context of use, per user too. I.e. legally Blind vs. what actually is.
15:26:57 <ChrisLoiselle> AndyS: talks to 20 two hundred baseline for legally Blind.
15:28:00 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnH: We have a place for the level of vision category within EO (Education Outreach).
15:28:34 <ChrisLoiselle> LauraC: I've been in accessibility space in 20 years. Started in W3C with HTML5 spec. I've been in WCAG working group.
15:28:50 <ChrisLoiselle> LauraC: I'm a original member of LVTF.
15:30:09 <ChrisLoiselle> Cammie: I am 508 at Health and Human Services. I wear many different hats, training, testing, etc. I've worked with Jon before. I am interested in the group and efforts and topics. I've been working with electronic baseline documents , document accessibility is my concentration.
15:30:12 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:30:21 <shawn> q- shawn
15:30:36 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:30:36 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Work modes (Jon ~15 mins) -- taken up [from shawn]
15:31:29 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: Talks to work modes. We have a wiki, we have a GitHub issue tracker. We have ability to use surveys for group to respond to.
15:31:57 <ChrisLoiselle> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF goes into detail on these items.
15:32:52 <ChrisLoiselle> The main wiki is https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page. We are looking to keep our meetings within an hour , every other week on Thursdays. Could go up to 1.5 hours if need be.
15:33:26 <ChrisLoiselle> Expectation is around 4 hours of total work within a week commitment wise to the efforts of Low Vision Task Force (LVTF)
15:33:53 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
15:34:13 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: Talks to scribe list. We'd like to have people sign up before the meeting, if at all possible.
15:35:00 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: We don't want people to have to scribe every week, so if we could alternate that would be great. Minutes would be documented by scribing.
15:35:08 <AndySomers> q+
15:35:33 <jon_avila> group-lvtf-plan@w3.org
15:35:36 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: to email us as facilitators, please use group-lvtf-plan@w3.org to reach Shawn and Jon and Chris
15:35:51 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask about mailing list
15:36:30 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:36:31 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:36:31 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jon_avila
15:36:42 <jon_avila> q?
15:37:59 <ChrisLoiselle> AmeenahG: Do you see me as a fit in the group?
15:38:35 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: It is not about a disability it is about your interest in to contribute to the group , in a variety of ways.
15:39:55 <ChrisLoiselle> AmeenahG: I want to capture the DoD space's demographics and help impact the users within our group through these efforts.
15:40:17 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: We are going to go over previous work and current work and you can make the determination.
15:40:21 <jon_avila> q?
15:40:56 <ChrisLoiselle> BruceB: To my colleagues , I wanted to introduce the 508 group as this task force was starting up again.
15:41:56 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:43:00 <ChrisLoiselle> AndyS: On topic of what is low vision, can we talk to this now or later?
15:43:13 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: Later as an agenda item of a future meeting.
15:43:36 <ChrisLoiselle> BruceB: For work modes, are we under AGWG or Silver.
15:43:45 <bruce_bailey> q-
15:43:50 <shawn> q?
15:43:55 <shawn> ack a
15:44:00 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA:  Should be within AGWG and within LVTF moving forward.
15:44:01 <jon_avila> q?
15:44:02 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:44:55 <ChrisLoiselle> AndyS: On work modes, LVTF , W3C working and liaisons, talks to CSS color and accessibility. Do we cross communicate ?
15:45:10 <bruce_bailey> is this the email address we will be using ???
15:45:11 <bruce_bailey> public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org
15:45:12 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnL: APA working group is chartered to coordinate with those type issues.
15:46:06 <ChrisLoiselle> JonA: AGWG , Accessibility Guideline Working Group tried to set up things where we are aware of cross communications.
15:46:46 <ChrisLoiselle> APA: Accessible Platform Architecture
15:46:57 <jon_avila> q?
15:47:00 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:47:27 <ChrisLoiselle> public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org is for communication within the group that is not GitHub based
15:47:31 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:47:37 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:47:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Past work overview (Chris ~10 mins) -- taken up [from shawn]
15:47:49 <jon_avila> scribe:jon_avila
15:47:51 <shawn> scribenick: jon_avila
15:47:53 <ChrisLoiselle> https://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html
15:48:58 <jon_avila> Chris: Past work link posted - we have editors draft of Accessibility Requirements for people with low vision.  Lok at past work and determine if there is anything additional in our new work.  Look at this as an overview and where we are from the publication in July 2019 and potentially update the publication of this.
15:50:33 <jon_avila> Chris: This is one of the documents we want to review in terms of past work and incorporate into WCAG 2.x.   People call could review this.  Good to review for baseline for next call.  Progression of visual impairments and what those are.   It covers functional vision and we could expand that section.  It also goes into specific user needs which maps back to WCAG 3.0 work.
15:50:52 <jon_avila> Chris: WCAG 3.0 guides are more user based.
15:51:32 <shawn> JonA: in WCAG 2.1 , got some new SCs that were from these user needs
15:51:32 <Sam_Waller> q+
15:52:03 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:52:20 <shawn> ... additional gaps that we couldn't address in WCAG 2 - which is where we are now
15:52:39 <jon_avila> andy: made some comments on the doc on github and we need to upatte something like figure 10.  It says it has high contrast but has low contrast letters.  Some technical things to examin.
15:52:51 <jon_avila> Andy: There is also some newer research.
15:52:54 <jon_avila> q?
15:52:57 <ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues
15:53:41 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:53:50 <jon_avila> ack s
15:53:51 <jon_avila> q?
15:54:32 <laura> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/
15:54:40 <shawn> What's New in WCAG 2.2 Working Draft  https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/new-in-22/
15:55:47 <shawn> q?
15:57:20 <jon_avila> q?
15:57:38 <jon_avila> Bhoomika: Could we have access to what was proposed.
15:57:45 <jon_avila> q?
15:58:39 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:58:39 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Current work options (Chris ~15 mins) -- taken up [from shawn]
15:58:59 <bruce_bailey> scribe:bruce_bailey
15:59:06 <bruce_bailey> scribe: bruce_bailey
15:59:25 <jon_avila> Supplemental guidance list on the wiki https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Supplemental_Guidance_List
15:59:37 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  looking at some guidence topics that have been suggest
15:59:56 <jon_avila> COGA example: https://deploy-preview-10--wai-coga-design-guide.netlify.app/consistent-design
15:59:58 <bruce_bailey> ... cognitive work also overlaps
16:00:03 <bruce_bailey> [see links]
16:00:19 <bruce_bailey> ... focus is on user needs, what helps
16:01:12 <bruce_bailey> ... one of the limitations with WCAG2 approach is need for requirements that work everywhere for all technologys
16:01:28 <bruce_bailey> ... supplementary guidence could have more flexibility
16:01:57 <bruce_bailey> ... provides valueable guidence and information but wouldn't be picked up by regulators
16:02:04 <bruce_bailey> ... things like sticky headers
16:02:08 <AndySomers> Visual Contrast Notes and Resources on our Wiki https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Visual_Contrast_of_Text_Subgroup
16:02:29 <bruce_bailey> ... we need ability to provide authoritative but supplemental guidence
16:02:42 <shawn> q+
16:03:14 <bruce_bailey> ... linked resources are not necessariliy finished, more like topics that might be addressed
16:03:37 <bruce_bailey> Shawn:  WAI and EO working on some additional guidence
16:03:39 <shawn> ack me
16:04:04 <bruce_bailey> ... will fit and match look-and-feel of other material posted on WAI site
16:04:18 <bruce_bailey> ... but draws from the recommendations from this group and others
16:04:59 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  Another goal is be considering if there is feedback from this group that might inform 3.0
16:05:38 <AndySomers> Q+
16:05:44 <bruce_bailey> ... there is an onging effort to migrate requirments from 2.x format to 3 -- and this group can help with that.
16:05:49 <jon_avila> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues
16:06:20 <bruce_bailey> ... Also there is older LVTF recommedations that this group should review and that we might want to update.
16:06:22 <bruce_bailey> q+
16:06:51 <bruce_bailey> ... and there are some long-standing questions that have not been addressed
16:07:32 <bruce_bailey> ... for example adding 200% mag to text that is already large is counter productive -- but WCAG 2x does not account for that
16:08:05 <bruce_bailey> KimB:  Best experience for me is text and a standard size -- yet so many well meaning sites do not do that
16:08:23 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  Yes, so we have a list of topics
16:08:30 <bruce_bailey> .. some may be lower priority
16:09:04 <shawn> Accessibility Requirements for People with Low Vision  https://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html
16:09:17 <jon_avila> https://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html from 2019
16:09:20 <jon_avila> q?
16:09:29 <bruce_bailey> q-
16:09:35 <jon_avila> q?
16:09:57 <shawn> [ Shawn has to drop to take call from hosptial ]
16:10:13 <bruce_bailey> Andy share doc
16:11:36 <bruce_bailey> ... question where to share some notes from email
16:11:52 <bruce_bailey> [discussion if github or wiki]
16:12:28 <bruce_bailey> Andy:  my notes include fonts size and useability
16:12:56 <bruce_bailey> .. as you zoom text up, you get to a point where further magnification makes things worse
16:14:13 <shawn> q+ to say tangent for now. and UAAG -> WCAG 3 (and maybe supplemental guidance)
16:14:16 <bruce_bailey> .. the way browsers zoom is by percentage, but want a user want is magnify smalles text up to say 80 px -- while keeping larges text clamped to 120 px
16:14:16 <shawn> ack a
16:15:29 <bruce_bailey> .. but this is a UA thing , so it makes we might not be able to address the user need in author-oriented content requirement
16:15:42 <bruce_bailey> ... but this group could at least document the need
16:16:07 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  I think this group can at least keep all of this issues on our plate
16:16:54 <bruce_bailey> ... might not fit for 2.3 but might be 3 or might revisit UAAG bue we can also work in cross discipline groups
16:17:20 <bruce_bailey> [Jon and Shawn discuss wiki/github locations]
16:17:25 <jon_avila> Supplemental guidance page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Supplemental_Guidance_List#Other_Potential_Topics
16:17:46 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/milestones
16:17:59 <bruce_bailey> Chris:  on GigHub we have issue tracker, which might work well for buckets
16:18:18 <bruce_bailey> ... triaging off the milestones might work better than the wiki
16:18:40 <ChrisLoiselle> For new or current issues We have 5 milestones, https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/milestones , so if you feel that these issues fit into an milestone, I feel it may be beneficial to talk to these in these general buckets, as well as potentially have them on the wiki.
16:18:50 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  We also heard topics and suggestions for possible future agenda topics
16:19:15 <bruce_bailey> Shawn:  wiki has planning page , so that might help
16:19:35 <shawn> ack me
16:19:35 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say tangent for now. and UAAG -> WCAG 3 (and maybe supplemental guidance)
16:20:00 <bruce_bailey> ... Laura will remember the old organization , but Jon and I think we need to start pretty much fress for this group
16:20:49 <bruce_bailey> ... I will also remind folks that the old UAAG 2.0 never was finalized because the browsers providers were not comfortable with that activity.
16:20:51 <jon_avila> q?
16:21:04 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
16:21:04 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Next steps (Chris ~5 mins) -- taken up [from shawn]
16:21:21 <bruce_bailey> ... Our expectation is that there is some room for that in what 3.0 covers.
16:21:52 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  This group should have some conversations about what work we prioitize.
16:22:23 <bruce_bailey> ... next meeing in a couple weeks.  I think supplemental guidence should be our first task and a high priority.
16:22:44 <bruce_bailey> Andy:  Agree with supplemental guidence as good first task.
16:23:25 <bruce_bailey> Sam:  It is a huge red flag for me that 2x has no minimum font size requiremet.  Really do not want to wait ten years for that.
16:24:20 <bruce_bailey> ... Also I am concern for current contrast ratio.  My near term priority would be min font size and better contrast requirement for 2.3.
16:24:21 <shawn> q+ to say supplemental guidance can turn into WCAG 2.3 &/or WCAG 3
16:24:51 <bruce_bailey> Andy:  My conversation with designer is that they are eager for better and more flexible guidence like the SAPC.
16:25:15 <bruce_bailey> ... have been working on a new version that might fit 2.3 approach
16:25:37 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  I am hearing some people advocate for a couple things in 2.3.
16:25:53 <bruce_bailey> .. I think HHS has min px size requirement they add to HHS.
16:26:40 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  When I started, I was advised that it was too big a paradigm shift for 2x, so focus on 3.  I woud be glad to have something sooner.
16:27:08 <bruce_bailey> Shawn:  The supplemental guidence would be a way to get this sort of information out there now.
16:27:14 <jon_avila> q?
16:27:18 <shawn> ack me
16:27:19 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say supplemental guidance can turn into WCAG 2.3 &/or WCAG 3
16:27:50 <bruce_bailey> Jon:  i think it has been a productive meeting, look for follow-up email and next steps
16:28:04 <bruce_bailey> .. new folks take a look at the current materials
16:28:13 <ChrisLoiselle> rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-lvtf-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle
16:28:36 <jon_avila> zakim, draft minutes
16:28:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', jon_avila
16:28:45 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
16:28:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ChrisLoiselle, JonAvila, ShawnHenry, BruceBailey, SamWaller, AmeenahGhoston, KimBorowicz, BhoomikaBhagchandani, LauraCarlson, AndrewSomers,
16:28:48 <Zakim> ... CammieTruesdell
16:28:51 <ChrisLoiselle> https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-lvtf-minutes.html
16:29:23 <jon_avila> present+CammieTruesdell
16:29:33 <jon_avila> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:29:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-lvtf-minutes.html jon_avila
16:31:27 <ChrisLoiselle> Thanks , Bruce !
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