IRC log of apa on 2021-08-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:47:37 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #apa
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/25-apa-irc
- 15:47:39 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:47:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #apa
- 15:47:41 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
- 15:47:41 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 August 2021
- 15:47:52 [becky]
- agenda?
- 15:48:18 [becky]
- agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements; W3C Calendar: https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html
- 15:48:18 [becky]
- agenda+ [TPAC Planning](https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetingsagenda+ Task Force Updates; agenda+ FAST Progress)
- 15:48:18 [becky]
- agenda+ New Charters Review
- 15:48:18 [becky]
- agenda+ Accessibility Review Comment Tracker
- 15:48:19 [becky]
- agenda+ New on TR
- 15:48:19 [becky]
- agenda+ CSS Update (Amy)
- 15:48:19 [becky]
- agenda+Dangling Spec Review Cleanup:
- 15:48:19 [becky]
- agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs)
- 15:48:19 [becky]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 15:48:39 [becky]
- chair: becky
- 15:58:01 [FredrikFischer]
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- 15:58:07 [FredrikFischer]
- present+
- 15:58:40 [janina]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 15:58:43 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:58:46 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
- 15:58:46 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 August 2021
- 15:58:49 [janina]
- agenda?
- 15:59:29 [janina]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 15:59:29 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 15:59:32 [janina]
- agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements; W3C Calendar: https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html">https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html <https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html>
- 15:59:35 [janina]
- agenda+ TPAC Planning <https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings>
- 15:59:37 [janina]
- agenda+ Task Force Updates;
- 15:59:40 [janina]
- agenda+ FAST Progress)
- 15:59:42 [janina]
- agenda+ New Charters Review <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested>
- 15:59:45 [janina]
- agenda+ Accessibility Review Comment Tracker <https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review>
- 15:59:48 [janina]
- agenda+ New on TR <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
- 15:59:48 [IanPouncey]
- IanPouncey has joined #apa
- 15:59:51 [janina]
- agenda+ CSS Update (Amy) <https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues>
- 15:59:53 [janina]
- agenda+Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned>
- 15:59:56 [janina]
- agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open>
- 15:59:59 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 16:00:07 [janina]
- Chair: Becky
- 16:00:56 [mike_beganyi]
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- 16:01:05 [mike_beganyi]
- present+
- 16:01:07 [IanPouncey]
- present+
- 16:02:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
- 16:02:09 [PaulG_]
- present+
- 16:02:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- agenda?
- 16:02:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- present?
- 16:02:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- present+
- 16:03:44 [becky]
- present+
- 16:03:47 [janina]
- present+
- 16:03:49 [amy_c]
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- 16:03:53 [amy_c]
- present+
- 16:04:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- scribe: Lionel_Wolberger
- 16:04:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:04:33 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements; W3C Calendar: https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html">https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html <https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html> -- taken up [from
- 16:04:36 [Zakim]
- ... janina]
- 16:05:04 [becky]
- regrets, Gottfried Zimmerman, David Fazio
- 16:05:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: We are trying the new calendar
- 16:05:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... you can opt out of updates if you wish
- 16:10:03 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Lionel_Wolberger: APA Chairs encourage every task force to enter the meetings into the calendar
- 16:10:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: This should me it easier to track meetings.
- 16:11:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Zakim, take up item 2
- 16:11:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- TPAC Planning <https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:11:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: Personalization requested a full session of their own.
- 16:12:07 [Jonny_James]
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- 16:12:09 [Jonny_James]
- present+
- 16:12:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... RQTF has decided to bow out of the full meeting
- 16:12:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... the wiki list is up-to-date
- 16:12:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... a new meeting on automotive accessibility
- 16:12:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... will be organized as a breakout session
- 16:13:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... THe meeting pattern is based on our live in person TPACs
- 16:14:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:14:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements; W3C Calendar: https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html">https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html <https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html> -- taken up [from
- 16:14:16 [Zakim]
- ... janina]
- 16:14:30 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, close item 1
- 16:14:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, Agenda Review & Announcements; W3C Calendar: https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html">https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html <https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html>, closed
- 16:14:33 [Zakim]
- I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:14:33 [Zakim]
- 3. Task Force Updates; [from janina]
- 16:14:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, close item 2
- 16:14:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, TPAC Planning <https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings>, closed
- 16:14:40 [Zakim]
- I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:14:40 [Zakim]
- 3. Task Force Updates; [from janina]
- 16:14:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 16:14:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates; -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:15:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Joshue108: XAUR has been published
- 16:17:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: RQTF is discussing SAUR
- 16:17:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... it will soon be ready
- 16:17:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... there was a relevant white paper from BBC
- 16:18:54 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: Pronunciation is clarifying language around the suggestion API
- 16:19:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... an i18n issues
- 16:19:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Lionel_Wolberger: Personalization spent a lot of the meeting planning for TPAC
- 16:20:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... Smoothed how we track actions, not using the wiki so much as git (with labels) and w3c action tracker
- 16:20:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:20:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- FAST Progress) -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:20:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- Joshue108: Jake has been working on a methodology that we can use for gap analysis of user needs and outcomes
- 16:21:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... Jake from Functional needs (also active in Silver)
- 16:22:09 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... In the Error TF (sub-group of Silver)
- 16:22:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... checking if the errors can be parsed through this methodology is effective
- 16:22:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... user needs list and various functional outcomes
- 16:22:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... should have results by end of this week
- 16:23:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:23:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- New Charters Review <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:23:36 [MichaelC]
- present+
- 16:23:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: No new charters this week
- 16:23:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, close item 5
- 16:23:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 5, New Charters Review <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested>, closed
- 16:23:53 [Zakim]
- I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:23:53 [Zakim]
- 6. Accessibility Review Comment Tracker <https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review> [from janina]
- 16:23:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, take up item 6
- 16:23:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- Accessibility Review Comment Tracker <https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:24:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- q?
- 16:24:17 [MichaelC]
- https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
- 16:24:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: Scroll bar width, Paul put in a comment and generated some debate
- 16:25:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: In the discussion, the trend is to assume that we cannot influence browser behavior
- 16:26:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... I advocated for adding thick
- 16:26:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... Browsers are bad at detecting when scroll bars are needed
- 16:26:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... "thin" is in the spec, but "thick" was shot down
- 16:27:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... the justification is the use of the spec when that is not a feature that they want authors to control, that is not appropriate
- 16:27:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... since APA has not said that thick is generally required, they have nothing to point to
- 16:27:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: can't users override CSS, and a user could request 'thick'?
- 16:28:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: Sounds good to me, but not to them
- 16:28:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- C
- 16:28:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: Sounds like they are ignoring an a11y issue for reasons that are not very well founded
- 16:28:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: We had a use case as well: on zoom, this would be needed
- 16:29:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: They retort that zoom is handled by zoom, the browsers can have a setting that scroll bars grow with zoom or remain as-is
- 16:29:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... all of the above is in the browsers' hands, and not in the CSS
- 16:30:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: We could assert a AAA requirement that a widget's scrollbars could be thickened with CSS
- 16:31:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: AAA is a 2.x specification for WCAG, it's likely late for 2.2
- 16:31:20 [becky]
- q?
- 16:31:51 [PaulG_]
- the "reel" https://every-layout.dev/layouts/reel/
- 16:31:58 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: I do see that it is browser developers pushing back in that discussion
- 16:32:12 [IanPouncey]
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- 16:32:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- PaulG_: How could it be a AAA issue without a CSS method to control it? Implies needing a ton of JS
- 16:33:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: Use case, designing an exam for low vision people. The page is designed to have large text, and that population would want the thick scrollbar.
- 16:33:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- IanPouncey: Leaning on WCAG for this has an issue, as they dont rely on browser defaults (similar issue with placeholder text)
- 16:34:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: Add this to the agenda of the group meeting
- 16:35:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: We could say, if 'thin' was a mistake and you do not want thin & wide, then remove 'thin'
- 16:36:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: Recording that APA thinks our use cases are enough of a reason to address this, and we should meet at TPAC
- 16:37:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:37:06 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- New on TR <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:37:28 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/localizable-manifests/ Developing Localizable Manifests
- 16:38:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: p11n is going to raise the issue that 'lang' attribute does not support today's and tomorrow's text-to-speech needs
- 16:38:48 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/virtual-keyboard/ VirtualKeyboard API
- 16:40:50 [becky]
- q?
- 16:40:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- action: FredrikFischer to review VirtualKeyboard API https://www.w3.org/TR/virtual-keyboard/
- 16:40:51 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2307 - Review virtualkeyboard api https://www.w3.org/tr/virtual-keyboard/ [on Fredrik Fischer - due 2021-09-01].
- 16:41:06 [MichaelC]
- action-2307: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/VirtualKeyboard_API
- 16:41:06 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-2307 Review virtualkeyboard api https://www.w3.org/tr/virtual-keyboard/.
- 16:41:43 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/webxr-ar-module-1/ WebXR Augmented Reality Module - Level 1
- 16:43:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- MichaelC: No review needed.
- 16:43:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:43:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- CSS Update (Amy) <https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:43:36 [amy_c]
- https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/11
- 16:43:45 [amy_c]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/CRD-css-masking-1-20210805/#intro
- 16:44:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- amy_c: CSS Masking Module Level 1. The main focus deals with SVGs
- 16:44:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- ... seems that APA will not have a lot to say here
- 16:45:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: Let's propose the TPAC joint meeting be at this hour, which we share anyway
- 16:47:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: Regarding CSS Masking Module Level 1, decided: APA has no comments.
- 16:48:25 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, next item
- 16:48:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 9 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:48:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, close item 9
- 16:48:31 [Zakim]
- agendum 9, Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned>, closed
- 16:48:34 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:48:34 [Zakim]
- 10. Actions Checkin (Specs) <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open> [from janina]
- 16:48:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, take up item 10
- 16:48:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 10 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open> -- taken up [from janina]
- 16:49:27 [becky]
- discussing Review mitigating browser fingerprinting in web specifications (https://www.w3.org/wai/apa/wiki/mitigating_browser_fingerprinting_in_web_specifications)
- 16:49:58 [becky]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2306
- 16:50:38 [becky]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/fingerprinting-guidance/
- 16:51:25 [IanPouncey]
- IanPouncey has joined #apa
- 16:55:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- FredrikFischer: The only note I had was the accessibility is used as a word meaning "available" or "connected." It would avoid confusion if the note used another word
- 16:56:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- janina: availability is a generally accepted word for this concept. So APA should point this out.
- 16:57:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- FredrikFischer: I will communicate this to them.
- 16:57:45 [becky]
- ACTION-2302: Review epub 3 text-to-speech enhancements 1.0, https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10,
- 16:57:45 [trackbot]
- Notes added to ACTION-2302 Review epub 3 text-to-speech enhancements 1.0, https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks.
- 16:58:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- FredrikFischer: I find it good work, a good doc. Its work is overtaken by p11n
- 16:59:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- becky: We know we will be discussing this further at TPAC, so no further action needed at this time.
- 17:00:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- zakim, end meeting
- 17:00:23 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been FredrikFischer, mike_beganyi, IanPouncey, PaulG_, Lionel_Wolberger, becky, janina, amy_c, Jonny_James, MichaelC
- 17:00:26 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 17:00:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/25-apa-minutes.html Zakim
- 17:00:28 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 17:00:32 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #apa
- 17:00:33 [becky]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:00:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/25-apa-minutes.html becky
- 17:01:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]
- says to becky: looks good
- 17:01:53 [janina]
- janina has changed the topic to: APA Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 1 September at 1600Z
- 17:01:56 [becky]
- rrsagent, bye
- 17:01:56 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/25-apa-actions.rdf :
- 17:01:56 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: FredrikFischer to review VirtualKeyboard API https://www.w3.org/TR/virtual-keyboard/ [1]
- 17:01:56 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/25-apa-irc#T16-40-50-1