IRC log of silver on 2021-08-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:21:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #silver
13:21:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:21:34 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:21:35 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:22:00 [jeanne]
13:22:00 [jeanne]
chair: Shawn, jeanne
13:22:00 [jeanne]
13:22:00 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
13:22:00 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:22:01 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:22:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jeanne
13:22:01 [jeanne]
13:22:06 [jeanne]
13:29:27 [jeanne]
agenda+ TPAC
13:29:27 [jeanne]
agenda+ Approach to Publishing WCAG 3 survey
13:29:27 [jeanne]
agenda+ Alt Text update
13:29:27 [jeanne]
agenda+ Issues
13:52:50 [Lauriat]
Lauriat has joined #silver
13:52:53 [Lauriat]
13:53:01 [Lauriat]
13:58:03 [Chuck]
Chuck has joined #silver
14:00:11 [JF]
JF has joined #silver
14:00:15 [Caryn]
Caryn has joined #silver
14:00:29 [JF]
14:00:35 [JF]
14:00:40 [jenniferS]
jenniferS has joined #silver
14:01:00 [Makoto]
Makoto has joined #silver
14:01:20 [bruce_bailey]
bruce_bailey has joined #silver
14:01:23 [jenniferS]
14:01:29 [bruce_bailey]
14:02:58 [JenniferC]
JenniferC has joined #silver
14:03:17 [sarahhorton]
sarahhorton has joined #silver
14:05:30 [ChrisLoiselle]
scribe: ChrisLoiselle
14:05:44 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:05:44 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- TPAC -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:05:55 [Chuck]
14:06:04 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
14:06:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- TPAC -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:06:06 [jeanne]
14:06:34 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Talks to joint session targeting and outreach.
14:06:52 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Have we done any outreach to immersive captions or any other groups?
14:07:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I know COGA would like to talk to us, clear words group is working with COGA. Not sure if other things are needed to discuss with COGA. Anyone else?
14:08:08 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: I think it would be a good point to reach out to COGA to see where they are and talk to points they want to cover.
14:08:24 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Action item to follow up with Rain on COGA topics.
14:08:38 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Epub , APA is meeting with Epub and invites us to attend.
14:09:06 [sajkaj]
sajkaj has joined #silver
14:09:09 [sajkaj]
14:10:05 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: I know they have the Epub guidelines, not sure if they plan on rolling that entirely in.
14:10:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:10:31 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: I don't think it is too early to cover these type of subjects or topics.
14:12:19 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: I think it may be useful and talk to how much time we spend on topic. There are a lot of registries, published in various places. W3 is not contemplating being a registry ...
14:12:44 [ChrisLoiselle]
... Talks to pronunciation, etc.
14:12:52 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: This sounds specific
14:13:19 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: Yes, it is . Silver perhaps is interested in registries portion but perhaps not pronunciation
14:13:44 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Who are the contacts?
14:14:25 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: Charles and DeVonish. If you wanted to write them and Cc me that would be great.. Deadline is late September . Benefit is to lock up early to get timeframes set.
14:14:52 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I will let him know .
14:15:28 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: If they prefer, we can meet in a longer meeting if makes sense to APA, Epub , etc.
14:15:54 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: EO and glossary WAI topic is also a topic of discussion.
14:16:02 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:16:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I put it on agenda for EO
14:16:08 [kirkwood]
kirkwood has joined #silver
14:16:42 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: We have three topics for APA, component libraries, third party and protocols.
14:17:15 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: APA is expected to meet with Silver during TPAC during the two weeks, just not currently in the planning page.
14:17:44 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Is Suzanne on call? Topic related to immersive captions ...
14:18:01 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: The XR group was working toward that but they aren't active .
14:18:13 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: Is JoshO on call? We just publisehed.
14:18:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: I think we should email them as they aren't on call.
14:18:36 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:19:02 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Do we have anything on internationalization ?
14:19:51 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: We are hoping to resolve before TPAC. It relates to personalization to a degree
14:20:10 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: On browser testing rules, I think we should have a discussion with them.
14:20:12 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:20:17 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:20:23 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Is Wilco on call?
14:20:27 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: No.
14:20:40 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Follow up with Wilco will be needed on browser testing.
14:22:02 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: On breakout sessions, method template, on writing for wcag 3, one is an intro to wcag 3 and latest updates and a maturity model introduction is also a topic .
14:22:41 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Talks to bottom of page wiki page on reference points for TPAC, etc.
14:22:44 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:22:49 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up item 2
14:22:49 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Approach to Publishing WCAG 3 survey -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:22:56 [Lauriat]
14:23:38 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Talks to survey on approach and process. We have conversation with chairs with what question 1 on survey outlines.
14:24:11 [ChrisLoiselle]
Question 1 was around issues and proposed solutions
14:24:46 [ChrisLoiselle]
So instead of quarterly public working drafts, we would do the work within editor's drafts
14:25:31 [sajkaj]
14:25:36 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: We want to hear your feedback , i.e. agree or agree with feedback, or you can disagree , etc.
14:25:45 [ChrisLoiselle]
Second question is other issues unaccounted for
14:25:47 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:26:25 [JF]
ack s
14:26:37 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: The survey pretty well describes the difficulties we are coming across.
14:27:25 [sarahhorton]
14:27:47 [ChrisLoiselle]
The changes are massive. I'm not sure the solution is good as is. It is trying to redefine the role of an editor's draft and how it currently functions. I think updating editor's drafts is a very good idea. Understanding working drafts are drafts
14:28:48 [JF]
Q+ to note that there is a difference between an Editor Draft and a Heartbeat publication
14:28:48 [Chuck]
14:28:53 [ChrisLoiselle]
We need to find a way to have those be acceptable on a more regular basis for working drafts. Going to a new definition of what an editor's draft is would add more trouble than it solves across W3C
14:28:56 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:29:00 [Lauriat]
ack JF
14:29:00 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to note that there is a difference between an Editor Draft and a Heartbeat publication
14:29:04 [Lauriat]
14:29:41 [jeanne]
I want to note that heartbeats can be published everyday
14:30:02 [jeanne]
14:30:04 [Lauriat]
ack Chuck
14:30:05 [ChrisLoiselle]
JF: there is a difference between an editor's draft and heartbeat publication. Editor's draft could be updated daily, if applicable. Heartbeat is more hardened. Editor's are most current. When we had a different publishing system, they may have been more beneficial.
14:30:09 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:30:30 [JF]
s/I want to note that heartbeats can be published everyday/I want to note that Editor's Drafts can be published everyday
14:31:05 [jeanne]
Do not edit my comment, JF. I meant what I said.
14:31:24 [ChrisLoiselle]
Chuck: Conversation is on the next AGWG call, I think each person could add tweaks that we could add to or remove from the topic in general. It is not that these were introduced recently , but they came to forefront last week.
14:31:29 [sajkaj]
14:31:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:31:41 [Lauriat]
ack jeanne
14:32:33 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I disagree with JF. I think the W3C has made it easier to publish working drafts . We have the ability to publish a working draft. W3C has encouraged through their own tools to publish more often.
14:33:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
AIRA in HTML has been publishing 4 to 6 a month. API , published 28 times. A lot of groups publish very often.
14:34:10 [Lauriat]
14:34:13 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: AC, Advisory Boards , all want more frequent publications. We can look at updating editors drafts but also do it with publications , doesn't have to be once a year. Not direction of modern W3C
14:34:32 [Lauriat]
ack sajkaj
14:34:39 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I don't think we should stop frequent publishing.
14:35:51 [Chuck]
q+ to ask Janina to share link to that process doc.
14:35:58 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: I searched for the term in process and don't see Heartbeat. There is a role for updated working drafts . They may or may not be on a heartbeat cadence.
14:36:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: We should also explore consensus and not unanimous agreement.
14:36:38 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:37:01 [Lauriat]
q+ to reframe this discussion to help folks in this group understand the space so we can have this conversation on Tuesday
14:37:04 [JF]
Respectfully: Revising a Working Draft A Working Group should publish a Working Draft to the W3C Technical Reports page when there have been significant changes to the previous published document that would benefit from review beyond the Working Group. If 6 months elapse without significant changes to a specification, a Working Group should publish a revised Working Draft, whose status section should indicate reasons for the lack of change. (source: htt[CUT]
14:37:15 [ChrisLoiselle]
What is behind it all, is what we want a working draft to show.
14:37:23 [Lauriat]
ack Chuck
14:37:23 [Zakim]
Chuck, you wanted to ask Janina to share link to that process doc.
14:37:23 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:37:31 [JF]
14:37:41 [sajkaj]
14:37:54 [ChrisLoiselle]
Chuck: can you point to the process document?
14:38:53 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: reads AWK's section 6.26 section.
14:39:02 [Lauriat]
ack Lauriat
14:39:02 [Zakim]
Lauriat, you wanted to reframe this discussion to help folks in this group understand the space so we can have this conversation on Tuesday
14:39:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:39:59 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Can we timebox rest of conversation for 10 minutes as AGWG is talking to this on Tuesday.
14:40:15 [ChrisLoiselle]
Is there anyone on call that has questions on what the problem is that we are trying to solve?
14:40:26 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:41:34 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Any item preventing anyone from responding to survey?
14:41:45 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:42:28 [ChrisLoiselle]
Rachael: It indicates we are trying to work through the process and that an editor's note is not able to handle the issue in entirety.
14:42:28 [Lauriat]
Bringing the survey link back, please fill it out for Tuesday's discussion!
14:42:31 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:43:08 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up next item
14:43:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- TPAC -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:43:15 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up item 3
14:43:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Alt Text update -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:43:19 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Two hour discussion with AGWG on Tuesday will review this very topic.
14:43:49 [Makoto]
Images - WAI Tutorial
14:44:17 [ChrisLoiselle]
Makota: On alt text update , we are done with phase 1 . For the 4 types of images, we had methods in first public working draft. We reviewed WCAG 2.1 documents and added examples.
14:44:27 [Makoto]
We updated these 4 methods
14:44:34 [ChrisLoiselle]
We now have updated version of methods (pastes link).
14:44:45 [ChrisLoiselle]
We are done with the methods.
14:45:50 [Makoto]
Alt Text Subgroup - Silver Wiki
14:45:51 [ChrisLoiselle]
We've also built techniques for these . We used Google docs for our work. I think Jeanne is working on providing these in HTML5 templates. I will update our subgroups wiki with these documents.
14:46:42 [ChrisLoiselle]
In phase 2, we will add more examples and add, edit and modify to the future version of the working draft.
14:46:48 [jeanne]
q+ to discuss scheduling when Makoto is finished.
14:47:27 [Makoto]
An Alt Decision Tree
14:48:10 [ChrisLoiselle]
The alt text guideline has seven methods on different types of images. It is not straightforward as to how to determine of which types of images . We used alt decision tree as a gateway of seven methods it would be helpful to use this , I'm not sure how to incorporate this into guideline structure of wcag 3
14:48:34 [Lauriat]
ack jeanne
14:48:34 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to discuss scheduling when Makoto is finished.
14:48:55 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I want to apologize that we aren't able to discuss alt text changes on Tuesday of next week.
14:48:57 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:49:09 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: it is still possible to get this into the next publication.
14:49:18 [ChrisLoiselle]
I think the decision tree is a great idea.
14:49:39 [ChrisLoiselle]
On redesign of outcomes , that is a great reference to work from.
14:50:19 [ChrisLoiselle]
As currently constructed, it could be in outcomes as it stands right now.
14:50:33 [ChrisLoiselle]
ShawnL: Also helps with ACT relationships
14:50:37 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:50:48 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up item 4
14:50:48 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Issues -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:51:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Issues topic - JF talked to the fact that issues that we are closing should tie to updates to wcag 3 .
14:52:59 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: if you could email me with closed issues, that would be helpful. Also, I am asking for helpful on management of issues within Silver. Open to help on managing it within Github.
14:53:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
JF: What would task be exactly?
14:54:03 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Identify issues that are ready to close . Responses are ready to show to working group and associate it with editors draft. Making a follow up note to understand there is a change that is ready to be looked at.
14:54:34 [ChrisLoiselle]
Janina: On conformance, I will help with those items. Will point to user generated and outcomes , etc.
14:54:48 [JF]
14:55:20 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I.e. Yes, this is addressing this this issue , see comment number for detail and include it in draft possibly.
14:55:28 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:55:36 [Lauriat]
ack JF
14:55:57 [ChrisLoiselle]
JF: I believe what we could through outstanding issues and then streamline them into buckets.
14:56:05 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: That is done already in a variety of ways.
14:57:02 [ChrisLoiselle]
JF: I don't want to leave this to one person. I think it is a useful . Can we talk to it offline ? I can help facilitate on specific tasks.
14:57:14 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: Yes, I will review concrete tasks and will follow up.
14:57:49 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jennifer S: I can help as well within GitHub in any way. I need a checklist of do this vs. non concrete action items.
14:57:54 [ChrisLoiselle]
Jeanne: I'll follow up.
14:57:58 [ChrisLoiselle]
14:58:13 [Makoto]
14:58:13 [ChrisLoiselle]
rrsagent , make minutes
14:58:18 [jeanne]
action: notes JF and JenniferS volunteered to help once I have a list of concrete tasks
14:59:02 [Lauriat]
14:59:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisLoiselle
15:30:50 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #silver
15:31:12 [alastairc]
alastairc has joined #silver
17:59:43 [kirkwood]
kirkwood has joined #silver