IRC log of apa on 2021-08-18

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-apa-irc
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15:40:57 [Zakim]
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Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:40:58 [trackbot]
Date: 18 August 2021
15:41:01 [janina]
agenda?
15:41:06 [janina]
Chair: Janina
15:41:06 [janina]
agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
15:41:06 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
15:41:06 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Updates
15:41:06 [janina]
agenda+ FAST Update
15:41:09 [janina]
agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
15:41:12 [janina]
agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
15:41:15 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:41:17 [janina]
agenda+ CSS Update & Comment Feedback (Amy) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
15:41:20 [janina]
agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
15:41:23 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
15:41:25 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
15:41:28 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:52:54 [janina]
zakim, drop item 8
15:52:54 [Zakim]
agendum 8, CSS Update & Comment Feedback (Amy) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues, dropped
15:53:01 [janina]
Regrets: Amy
15:53:07 [janina]
regrets+ Michael
15:54:44 [janina]
present+
15:59:54 [PaulG]
present+
16:00:51 [becky]
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16:02:21 [Joshue108]
present+
16:02:36 [NeilS]
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16:02:36 [JF]
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16:04:16 [mike_beganyi]
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16:04:26 [FredrikFischer]
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16:04:37 [JF]
Present+
16:04:39 [mike_beganyi]
present+
16:04:53 [FredrikFischer]
present+
16:04:57 [Jonny_James]
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16:05:01 [Jonny_James]
present+
16:05:04 [NeilS]
present+
16:05:27 [becky]
present+
16:05:35 [FredrikFischer]
scribe: fredrikfischer
16:05:47 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next
16:05:47 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next', FredrikFischer
16:06:06 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:06:06 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
16:06:28 [irfan]
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16:06:34 [irfan]
present+
16:06:40 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Nothing to add.
16:06:50 [janina]
zakim, close this item
16:06:50 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:06:51 [Zakim]
I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:51 [Zakim]
2. TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021 [from janina]
16:07:01 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:07:01 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021 -- taken up [from janina]
16:07:39 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Reminding everyone of the URI in the agenda item itself. It will be more populated with relevant data as we near TPAC.
16:07:49 [Fazio]
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16:07:58 [Fazio]
present+
16:08:06 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Quick overview: of the page: the top is rather irrelevant as for now. Frist item lissts teh meetings for the first week.
16:08:23 [JF]
agenda?
16:08:37 [FredrikFischer]
janina: As the meetings get scheduled they will get reordered. There is data on the different meetings, key people we want to make sure are participating and so forth.
16:08:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
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16:09:03 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+
16:09:05 [FredrikFischer]
janina: There is also room for proposed agenda an dannotations. All is open to group participation.
16:09:17 [FredrikFischer]
janina: TF mfacilitators have been asked to arrange as appropriate. If you have something to add, please do.
16:09:50 [FredrikFischer]
janina: The first week's meetings tend to be 1h meetings: second week meetings tend to be half-days according to current thinking. We'#ll see how that goes.
16:10:25 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Last but not least, the section beyond the second week is proposed sessions for the deay of breakouts (Wed second week). You go as you're interested.
16:10:36 [Fazio]
yay
16:10:55 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Topics iwll include: COGA Usable. Our remaining publications are in a second meeting. We'll see if a basic introduction will suffice.
16:11:05 [FredrikFischer]
janina: A proposed breakout on Remote Meetings is also in the running.
16:11:09 [Fazio]
Maturity model
16:11:14 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Expect rearrangements, additions, subtractions.
16:11:25 [FredrikFischer]
janina: At the bottom are some generally useful links.
16:11:57 [FredrikFischer]
janina: There is crosslink to Silver/AGWG.
16:12:16 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Thanks to Irfan, there is a larger meeting in relation to speech in W3C being arranged as well.
16:12:21 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:12:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates -- taken up [from janina]
16:13:06 [FredrikFischer]
janina: RQTF: we expect a CFC right about the start of September to publish SAUR *Sync Accessibility User Requirements( follolowed by up to two AURs before TPAC in WD status.
16:13:18 [FredrikFischer]
janina: We're close to a CR for personalization but Lionel can talk about that if he wishes.
16:13:25 [FredrikFischer]
janina: RQTF is busy, short and sweet.
16:13:46 [FredrikFischer]
Lionel_Wolberger: Personalization has good momentum towrads CR. Even next meeting or the one after we will be requesting CR.
16:14:17 [FredrikFischer]
irfan: We are moving forward with th feedback including the response from vendors (brosser and AT vendors).
16:15:08 [FredrikFischer]
janina: TPAC is really two different meetings at the same time. Technical Plannery and AC (Advisory Committee). The idea is, for the AC part, that W3C coordination should happen.
16:17:15 [FredrikFischer]
Fazio: I'm in Peru for the rest of the year, by the way.
16:18:43 [FredrikFischer]
Fazio: COGA> we're very focused on the mental health thing. We're working through some literary reviews. We did review some really intersting documents where mental health profesionals have reviewed documents like the WCAG and given comment. Their recommendation si to follow more standardized documents in the medaical sphere (DSM and so on).
16:20:16 [FredrikFischer]
janina: The wider community of disabillity advocacy, all the organizations *AFB, WID and so forth) have worked very hard to get out of the medical model as a way of discussing disability and disability accommodations. I don't think the DSM is going to be a popular suggestion at the moment.
16:20:44 [FredrikFischer]
janina: We can start with the word invalid...
16:21:55 [FredrikFischer]
Fazio: Not specifically using the DSM but the way we go about claiming Success Criteria should be done this or that way doesn't have much scientific research behind it and that it is hard for mental health situations to say that it does what it says it does if there is not scientific standing behind it. It wasn't suggesting using the DSM per se. That's just s
16:21:58 [Joshue108]
q?
16:22:05 [Joshue108]
q+
16:22:21 [FredrikFischer]
Fazio: They actually reviewed WCAG and actually attributed it to mental conditions that they do affect and how.
16:22:30 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Who are they here?
16:22:35 [JF]
+1 to Janina
16:23:15 [FredrikFischer]
janina: It's a bit of a major change in authority here to say that we should lean more on the scientific material.
16:23:17 [Joshue108]
ack me
16:23:44 [JF]
Q+
16:24:20 [FredrikFischer]
q+
16:24:38 [Joshue108]
ack jf
16:25:32 [FredrikFischer]
JF: The DSM is an attempt by professionals to quantify or qualify something. When it comes to a11y, I get nervous about stuff that demands additional expertise. We want to make it easier, not harder.
16:25:49 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Let's not stray into Silver here, but just a caution to COGA.
16:27:28 [FredrikFischer]
Fazio: We're basing the success criteria on experience rather than on scientific research. That might be a problem.
16:27:43 [Joshue108]
agenda?
16:27:44 [Fazio]
Chair for Public Health and Health Services Research, Research Unit for Biopsychosocial Health, Department of Medical Informatics, Biometry and Epidemiology, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München, Munich , D
16:28:40 [FredrikFischer]
janina: I've been in an exchange with Lisa and Rain. They're asking for a meeting with i18n about iconography. I'm not sure if that's in scope of what they do. If there is a basis to do some work around that, the classic APA pattern is to write an AUR documetn and it would be perfectly appropriate if COGA wants to take up such a document on iconography.
16:29:10 [FredrikFischer]
janina: I would however check around and see that this isn't in someone else's scope. I'm not aware that there has been any standardization of iconography in the W3C ever, for anyone.
16:30:27 [FredrikFischer]
JF: There is some work around emojis which is kinhd of an icon and around UTF8 and those kinds of things. The topic becomes complicated fairly quickly. It can stray into emojis or UTF8 characters and wingdings and so on.
16:30:58 [FredrikFischer]
janina: They want to standardize things that would be shown in a web page. It could be something that could be configured through CSS or the personalizations specs. I would start that with an AUR document, that's always a beginning point.
16:31:12 [FredrikFischer]
Joshue108: This has been very fascinating for a host of reasons.
16:33:08 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:33:08 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, FredrikFischer
16:33:15 [janina]
q?
16:33:16 [Fazio]
Mental Health Article https://www.jmir.org/2016/6/e157/authors
16:33:35 [janina]
ack fr
16:33:54 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:33:54 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- FAST Update -- taken up [from janina]
16:34:45 [FredrikFischer]
Joshue108: Brifely: Michael was away, we didn't meet last Friday. We will jsut continue to discuss Jake's proposal on the functional needs committee. I want to discuss some kind of plans for deliverables or milestones and see what we can deliver over the next few months. I want to projectize the FAST work.
16:35:00 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Projected timelines and deliverables wouldn't be bad.
16:35:02 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:35:02 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
16:35:17 [janina]
zakim, close this item
16:35:17 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
16:35:18 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:35:18 [Zakim]
6. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
16:35:27 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:35:27 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
16:36:53 [FredrikFischer]
becky: It seems that there is nothing new here. Michael is away, again...
16:37:09 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:37:09 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
16:38:24 [FredrikFischer]
becky: HTML Accessibility API mappings 1.0.
16:38:32 [FredrikFischer]
janina: I think we defer to ARIA on that.
16:39:10 [FredrikFischer]
becky: Teh Working Draft for pesonalization appeared on this page. Just FYI.
16:39:16 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:39:16 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina]
16:39:32 [FredrikFischer]
becky: Michael is off, again...
16:39:34 [janina]
zakim, close this item
16:39:34 [Zakim]
agendum 9 closed
16:39:35 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:39:36 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:39:36 [Zakim]
10. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
16:39:36 [Zakim]
agendum 10 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
16:40:11 [PaulG]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
16:40:13 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: Do you want a report now on the CSS scrolbars_
16:40:56 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: Reads the comment out loud.
16:41:52 [janina]
q?
16:42:01 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: Fro accessibility, scrollbars should react to zoom and so on, CSS WG doesn't see the need for this. I might be misunderstanding here.
16:42:24 [becky]
q+
16:43:24 [janina]
q?
16:43:28 [janina]
ack beck
16:43:35 [FredrikFischer]
becky: Think is there and that is author controlled, so why not wide?
16:43:46 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: Thin may have been a mistake, it's already there.
16:43:55 [FredrikFischer]
becky: It is a poor argument, but even so.
16:44:26 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: I didn't respond in order to wait for comments from the group. Are we saying that the CSS WGs reasoning is flawed?
16:44:42 [Lionel]
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16:44:48 [Lionel]
a?
16:44:57 [Lionel]
a?
16:45:14 [Lionel]
q?
16:45:15 [FredrikFischer]
janina: I don't know that we need to beat them up over the reasoning. The question is what makes the browsersmake it available tousers, that's a good one.
16:45:20 [FredrikFischer]
PaulG: I'll work on a response.
16:45:53 [FredrikFischer]
Lionel: I wasn't fully aware of thin.
16:45:58 [FredrikFischer]
becky: It's in the issue that Paqul put in.
16:46:55 [FredrikFischer]
zakim, next item
16:46:55 [Zakim]
agendum 11 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
16:48:13 [FredrikFischer]
JF: This is a question, mostly. Janina, you have mentioned somewhere that the W3C has introduced the new calendaring feature. I'm really impressed with it. Some groups I'm involved with have been using it. When you go to your user page on w3.org, you can export all your meetings through iCal.
16:48:30 [FredrikFischer]
janina: In the last week or so it has gone out of beta and is now considered for primetime use.
16:48:36 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Soemgroups are using it, others are not.
16:48:59 [FredrikFischer]
janina: I like that part about populating the calednar. One of the thigns we tested last year was a Google calendar for all of our TPAC sessions. I found that particularly useful.
16:49:19 [FredrikFischer]
janina: At some point we need the time to deal with thlearning curve.
16:50:03 [FredrikFischer]
janina: We are aware of it and expecting the move there at some point.
16:50:51 [FredrikFischer]
becky: I thought it was interesting that it does have an instruction so I pulled that up. I could use better instructions, but I'll look them through and see what I can do.
16:51:35 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Like everythign else, the existing template is the exxisting tenmplate and we know how to deal with it. Switching to a new tool, there is always a learning curve. There may be a glitch or two by the switch.
16:51:44 [FredrikFischer]
janina: Can't promise you it'll happen this or next week, but soon.
16:52:14 [FredrikFischer]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:52:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-apa-minutes.html FredrikFischer
16:53:25 [FredrikFischer]
rrsagent, bye
16:53:25 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items