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13:32:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/12-coga-irc
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13:32:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:32:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:32:58 <trackbot> Date: 12 August 2021
13:33:11 <LisaSeemanKest> publish minets
13:33:30 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ Check in with all sub-groups and action requests https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage
13:33:31 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ Reminder, next two weeks are off and  present+ yourself before the meeting ends
13:33:32 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ Continue working on WCAG 2.2 actions including common objects
13:33:32 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ outreach email to get people to join the community group
13:33:33 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ add groups to the spread sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPD4pRLngZslj-KsRBlxknECCe0q1cDIx1eo0XyFGks/edit#gid=1127865154spreadsheet for outreach and recuriting for coga
13:33:34 <LisaSeemanKest> Agenda+ Do we want every 6  months a “get to know you” sesion?
13:33:35 <LisaSeemanKest> Regrets: Rain
13:34:15 <LisaSeemanKest> rrsagent, make minutes
13:34:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/12-coga-minutes.html LisaSeemanKest
13:34:21 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
13:39:45 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ can we each do a mental health reasech paper?
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13:58:40 <stevelee_> present+
14:01:23 <cweidner> cweidner has joined #COGA
14:01:27 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
14:01:30 <cweidner> present+
14:01:40 <kirkwood> present+
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14:01:51 <Roy> present+
14:01:56 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe: cweidner
14:02:07 <Fazio> present+
14:02:21 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:02:21 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Check in with all sub-groups and action requests https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:02:40 <EA> EA has joined #coga
14:03:26 <cweidner> JohnK: Update on Guardianship policy. Working on drafting a doc for companies to share.
14:05:28 <cweidner> Lisa: Working with Jan to input additional patterns into Clear Words. Would you (Chris) want to help with that?
14:05:43 <cweidner> Chris W: Sure. I have a colleague working on this as well and I'll share.
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14:06:26 <cweidner> Lisa: If anyone is interested doing lit reviews reviewing research papers or user needs please reach out.
14:06:43 <JohnRochford> present+
14:06:52 <cweidner> John K: Is there a central lit review hub?
14:06:53 <LisaSeemanKest> form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
14:07:00 <kirkwood> Lit review form
14:07:09 <kirkwood> and tracking ov papers:
14:07:19 <LisaSeemanKest> tracking what pepers are done  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit?usp=sharing
14:09:03 <cweidner> Lisa: Have we completed adding emails to the participant page?
14:09:09 <cweidner> Roy: Yes, that's complete.
14:09:31 <cweidner> Lisa: Progress on anonymous participation?
14:09:57 <cweidner> Rachel: Taking it to management.
14:10:47 <cweidner> Rachel: Draft process in development, will be sharing with this group when more final.
14:11:41 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:11:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Reminder, next two weeks are off and  present+ yourself before the meeting ends -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:11:52 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
14:12:00 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
14:12:04 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:12:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, LisaSeemanKest
14:12:10 <LisaSeemanKest> close item 2
14:12:18 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:12:18 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Continue working on WCAG 2.2 actions including common objects -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:12:29 <LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA
14:13:29 <JohnRochford> q+
14:13:37 <cweidner> Lisa: A few open issues, but the only one that immediately needs our feedback is common objects.
14:14:01 <cweidner> Defining common objs has gone back and forth a bit.
14:14:26 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
14:14:38 <kirkwood> defining common objects issue being discussed
14:14:41 <LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1902
14:15:37 <kirkwood> is there a way to summarize where we are at?
14:16:58 <EA> q+
14:17:31 <Rachael> current text: If the test is based on something the website has set such as remembering or transcribing a word, or recognising a picture the website provided, that would be a cognitive functional test. Recognising common objects, or a picture the user has provided, would not be a cognitive functional test.
14:17:33 <cweidner> Lisa: COGA perspective on what is considered to be a functional test was challenging for Silver group to accept
14:17:56 <cweidner> *cognitive functional test
14:19:41 <cweidner> Concern that there needs to be a block for internet spam, bots, etc. Banks and other legal entities are looking for another check. Would be difficult to move forward if forbidding CAPTCHA-type solutions.
14:19:51 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:19:57 <LisaSeemanKest> ack john
14:20:29 <cweidner> Rachael: Conflict is between balancing security vs accessibility
14:20:37 <kirkwood> potentially alternative method(?)
14:21:07 <cweidner> John: Common objs is not just an accessibility problem. It is wider than just an accessibility issue.
14:21:09 <LisaSeemanKest> ack ea
14:21:30 <cweidner> EA: Agree. Objects aren't necessarily common across international audiences.
14:21:54 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
14:22:09 <kirkwood> +1 to EA on all points
14:22:35 <kirkwood> I hate the bridges!
14:22:51 <cweidner> David: Often there is a lack of clarity between similar objects
14:23:09 <Rachael> q+
14:23:22 <LisaSeemanKest> ack LisaSeemanKest
14:24:24 <cweidner> John K: Agree with all. From the perspective of limited FoV, clicking on the boxes is also a challenge.
14:25:02 <cweidner> Lisa: I've also failed these as well.
14:25:51 <cweidner> John K: The WORD test Captcha is also a challenge. I have difficulty recognizing the characters.
14:26:35 <EA> +1 to appreciating the security problem and the need to reduce spam,  but we still need to improve the systems offered
14:27:18 <JohnRochford> Google reCAPTCHA v3: https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/
14:27:30 <JohnRochford> No cognitive function test.
14:28:22 <cweidner> Lisa to Rachael: Suggestion as to how we move forward?
14:28:28 <kirkwood> +1 that works JR
14:28:46 <LisaSeemanKest> the tick here if you are not a robort seems to work for all of us
14:29:23 <cweidner> Rachael: I will take it back, and provide some alternatives like the latest version of reCaptcha. However, as I understand it as written if they want to use images and provide an alternative without a cognitive function test, we should be ok.
14:30:58 <cweidner> Lisa: How hard of a stand do we want to take on this issue?
14:33:21 <cweidner> John R: I've been identifying this as an issue since 2014. I strongly believe that we should take a hard stand. If we are presented with an ultimatum that success criteria won't go through without this, then I think we should stand firm.
14:33:25 <LisaSeemanKest> agreement that this is realy important
14:33:29 <EA> +1 we cannot say it works for people if it doesn't
14:33:49 <cweidner> +1
14:33:58 <LisaSeemanKest> +1 this important
14:34:05 <JohnRochford> +1
14:35:01 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:35:01 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LisaSeemanKest
14:35:07 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:35:11 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
14:35:15 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:35:15 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- outreach email to get people to join the community group -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:35:44 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/community/coga-community/
14:36:48 <LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1890
14:37:28 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/community/coga-community/
14:38:14 <cweidner> Lisa: I will be sending out an email to people who join the community group welcoming them and ask them what they want to be getting out of it.
14:38:39 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DoohB2-tREjXx7PF6sCi3jLt6OrjE1ciAb0Dcb7FgyU/edit#
14:38:44 <cweidner> LIsa: We want to recruit users. We're not limiting who can join.
14:40:19 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPD4pRLngZslj-KsRBlxknECCe0q1cDIx1eo0XyFGks/edit#gid=1127865154
14:40:58 <cweidner> Lisa: We're also keeping the above spreadsheet to keep track of who we're inviting.
14:41:24 <cweidner> Lisa: Biggest priority group to recruit is mental health experts.
14:41:28 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:42:15 <Rachael> q+
14:42:28 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
14:42:44 <cweidner> Rachael: Do we have a plan for setting groups up and getting conversation going?
14:44:11 <cweidner> Lisa: I would like to send a welcome email to the list and invite folks to introduce themselves. Once we get that dialogue going, we can consider an open Town Hall.
14:44:32 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:44:41 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:44:41 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- add groups to the spread sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPD4pRLngZslj-KsRBlxknECCe0q1cDIx1eo0XyFGks/edit#gid=1127865154spreadsheet for outreach and
14:44:44 <Zakim> ... recuriting for coga -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:44:59 <LisaSeemanKest> close item 5
14:45:03 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:45:03 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Do we want every 6  months a “get to know you” sesion? -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:45:50 <kirkwood> +1
14:45:52 <Rachael> q+
14:46:01 <cweidner> +1
14:46:04 <Fazio> id prefer the beer
14:46:47 <cweidner> Rachael: From a facilitator standpoint in AG, we had success with picking a light topic to chat around. We've had success with that.
14:46:58 <kirkwood> agreed
14:47:00 <stevelee_> +1
14:47:03 <cweidner> +1
14:47:20 <Roy> +1
14:47:24 <Rachael> +1
14:48:19 <cweidner> EA: I'm looking at forms for Mental Health orgs in the UK. I am wondering if we are allowed to use your email to get in touch with them?
14:51:04 <EA> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DoohB2-tREjXx7PF6sCi3jLt6OrjE1ciAb0Dcb7FgyU/edit#
14:53:09 <LisaSeemanKest> public-coga-community@w3.org
14:54:25 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:54:25 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LisaSeemanKest
14:54:30 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:54:32 <cweidner> Lisa: They can get in touch with Rain or myself if they want someone to speak to.
14:55:15 <Rachael> q-
14:55:18 <LisaSeemanKest> ack Rachael
14:55:22 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
14:55:22 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- can we each do a mental health reasech paper? -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:56:21 <LisaSeemanKest> form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
14:56:29 <LisaSeemanKest>  tracking what pepers are done https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit?usp=sharing
14:56:46 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
14:57:24 <cweidner> EA: I'm a bit snowed under at the moment unfortunately, so I'm unavailable for review.
14:57:43 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
14:58:05 <Rachael> Enjoy everyone!
14:58:27 <cweidner> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:58:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/12-coga-minutes.html cweidner
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