13:58:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #silver
13:58:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/06-silver-irc
13:58:55 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:58:57 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:59:11 <jeanne> Chair: jeanne
13:59:18 <jeanne> present:
13:59:26 <jeanne> present+
13:59:29 <jeanne> q?
13:59:34 <sajkaj> present+
13:59:40 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
13:59:46 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
14:00:22 <jeanne> agenda+ review timeline and outstanding items for the August heartbeat
14:00:22 <jeanne> agenda+ TPAC meetings
14:00:22 <jeanne> agenda+ TPAC Inclusion fund
14:00:22 <jeanne> agenda+ WCAG3 Update presentation?
14:00:23 <jeanne> agenda+ Updates to the User Generated Content proposal
14:02:10 <JenniferS> JenniferS has joined #silver
14:02:13 <JenniferS> present+
14:02:31 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
14:02:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- review timeline and outstanding items for the August heartbeat -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:02:46 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Project_Plan_for_Q3_Working_Draft
14:02:54 <sarahhorton> sarahhorton has joined #silver
14:03:10 <sarahhorton> present+
14:03:16 <JF> JF has joined #silver
14:03:45 <JF> Present+
14:03:48 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #silver
14:03:51 <JF> agenda?
14:03:55 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes there's an impact on all subgroups working on outcomes, so will discuss ...
14:04:04 <Makoto> present+
14:04:21 <jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/ACT_Method_proposal/methods/decorative-images/index.html
14:04:25 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
14:04:41 <sajkaj> jeanne: Example ACT format at above link
14:05:04 <sajkaj> jeanne: Would like existing methods moved to the new format for the 4th Quarter draft slated for December
14:05:21 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #silver
14:05:28 <Francis_Storr> present+
14:06:06 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes some technical issues about where on w3.org things can be published, which impinges somewhat on what's where
14:06:37 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes new Description TAB; a Background Tab; i.e. reorg of Tabs
14:06:51 <sajkaj> jeanne: We're using more ACT where we can
14:08:33 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes a method specific glossary tab for terms used in that method which is nonnormative; but there's still the main glossary for the overall doc
14:09:00 <sajkaj> jeanne: helps when we need more specific definitions to explain methods; provides more flexibility
14:09:06 <sajkaj> q+
14:09:20 <jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/ACT_Method_proposal/methods/decorative-images/description.html
14:09:58 <sajkaj> jeanne: looking at whether we can use the accordian design
14:10:09 <sajkaj> jeanne: balancing needs of experts and newbies
14:10:39 <sajkaj> jeanne: So, new tools for groups working on guidelines ...
14:10:45 <jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/ACT_Method_proposal/methods/decorative-images/background.html
14:11:21 <jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/ACT_Method_proposal/methods/decorative-images/tests.html
14:11:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: ACT will be helping -- so we're not on our own to get this done right
14:13:06 <jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/ACT_Method_proposal/methods/decorative-images/glossary.html
14:13:07 <sajkaj> jeanne: we now have applicability and expectations rather than expected test results in order to support more unique testing situations
14:14:07 <JF> Q+
14:14:15 <jeanne> ack saj
14:14:55 <JenniferS> +1
14:14:58 <SuzanneTaylor> janina: is it okay that we are using "glossary" to label two different things
14:15:13 <JenniferS> +1 to Janina's point
14:15:28 <SuzanneTaylor> jeanne: let us know if think of a good alternative
14:15:34 <jeanne> ack JF
14:15:49 <sajkaj> jf: Also have glossary concern -- worried about nonnormative?
14:16:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: where we can, we will use normative glossary; the only nonnormative are specific terms specific to a particular method
14:16:53 <sajkaj> jf: But that's my concern, a mix of normative and nonnormative definitions itself could be concerning
14:17:16 <sajkaj> jf: especially if normative and nonnormative are intermixed in a particular location
14:17:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: will it matter?
14:17:30 <JenniferS> +1 to JF. I had a helluva time with design leads, project managers, product owners, dev leads with this type of detail difference.
14:17:55 <sarahhorton> q+
14:17:56 <sajkaj> jf: concerned that people will trip over that and take away the normative expectation
14:18:05 <sajkaj> jeanne: certainly something to think about
14:18:46 <SuzanneTaylor> janina: perhaps "terms of interest in this method" might totally avoid that kind of clash
14:19:26 <SuzanneTaylor> janina: but should not deep dive today
14:19:34 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes we can discuss, and it's for December in any case
14:19:53 <sajkaj> jf: will log a github issue
14:20:18 <sajkaj> jeanne: rather likes "local terms"
14:20:28 <sajkaj> jeanne: though perhaps not good "plain lang"
14:21:10 <jeanne> ack sarah
14:21:33 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: question about this new struct; understood our CfC was on struct; but am seeing different content
14:22:05 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: are we changing content to meet the new structures as well?
14:22:24 <sajkaj> jeanne: Yes, broadly speaking
14:23:10 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Had not thought that impact of CfC would be change of content
14:23:32 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Had thought discussions were more superficial ...
14:23:49 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Notes ACT will be helping get it right
14:23:54 <JF> Glossary Terms in Methods (Normative versus Non-Normative) #545: https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/545
14:23:58 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: So what's the plan moving forward?
14:24:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: that each subgroup take time on revising into this format and republishing methods in a future draft; realize this is a big job and we will need ACT's technical help
14:24:43 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: also have concerns about a11y of content
14:25:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes the very technical explanations are a small audience; but an important audience
14:25:53 <sajkaj> jeanne: Another way to consider is our testing could be our plain lang of what we're explicating more fully
14:25:56 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #silver
14:26:00 <Makoto> q+
14:26:29 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Suggests we go after one by way of example and getting accustomed as a good first step
14:26:34 <sajkaj> jeanne: yes, very much agree
14:26:53 <SuzanneTaylor> +1 to polishing one first, so that everyone is not polishing in different ways/directions
14:26:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: thought we had example for decorative in github, but not seeing right now; will check
14:27:13 <sajkaj> q?
14:27:17 <sajkaj> ack mak
14:27:18 <jeanne> ack mak
14:28:13 <sajkaj> Makoto: Seeing new pieces in work I previously did but unsure where it came from; would like traceability
14:28:35 <sajkaj> jeanne: Came from ACT and ACT rules for decorative images
14:28:38 <sajkaj> Makoto: OK
14:29:10 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes we're working to arrange a joint meeting with ACT and Makoto's group to get coordinated
14:29:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks Francis ...
14:29:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: Who's todo list?
14:29:34 <sajkaj> Francis_Storr: unsure
14:29:53 <sajkaj> Francis_Storr: in email discussion somewhere
14:30:15 <sajkaj> jeanne: moving forward
14:30:37 <sajkaj> jeanNotes errors back on AGWG for 17th, so needs to be ready next Thursday for WBS
14:30:41 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Ready now
14:31:00 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Michael has merged the PR; just one outstanding heading issue
14:31:22 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: We'll not be doing more revision
14:31:27 <sajkaj> jeanne: Excellent!
14:31:50 <sajkaj> jeanne: next Explainer Note; have actions and will return to AGWG
14:32:11 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes also User Generated revisions following this week's review
14:32:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: Also will have Text Alternatives with new methods
14:32:32 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks when might be ready for AGWG?
14:32:40 <sajkaj> Makoto: will take a couple more weeks
14:32:56 <jenniferS_> jenniferS_ has joined #silver
14:33:14 <sajkaj> jeanne: Hmmm, may miss 3rd quarter WD, but let's still try to get it in ...
14:33:48 <sajkaj> jeanne: if goes to AGWG on 24th, would probably be last chance for 3rd quarter; might that work
14:33:51 <sajkaj> Makoto: will try
14:34:00 <sajkaj> Makoto: we're close to the final version
14:34:08 <sajkaj> jeanne: also thought that you were close
14:34:22 <sajkaj> jeanne: Let's set 18th as target
14:35:16 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes also AGWG on 10th has proposal from JF that could be adopted for 4th Quarter draft -- new material presentation on the 10th
14:35:35 <sajkaj> jeanne: Also Maturity, Visual Contrast, XR, several others for 4th
14:35:39 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
14:35:39 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC meetings -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:36:21 <sajkaj> jeanne: notes Silver page for TPAC; it's a wiki; please annotate
14:36:40 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/TPAC_2021_Meeting_Overview
14:37:18 <sajkaj> jeanne: Looks at current TPAC meeting thoughts ...
14:38:37 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes Method Template Breakout aimed at groups outside AGWG that might want to write methods
14:38:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: Please annotate or send me email
14:39:05 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
14:39:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- TPAC Inclusion fund -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:39:37 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes there's funding available to increase inclusion and participation for people who might otherwise not be able to attend
14:39:42 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/blog/2021/06/diversity-and-inclusion-at-w3c-inclusion-fund-and-fellowships-for-tpac-2021/
14:40:42 <sajkaj> jeanne: Applications open to August 15th
14:41:05 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/InclusionFund2021/
14:41:18 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
14:41:18 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- WCAG3 Update presentation? -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:41:34 <sajkaj> zakim, close this item
14:41:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
14:41:35 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:41:35 <Zakim> 5. Updates to the User Generated Content proposal [from jeanne]
14:41:41 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
14:41:41 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Updates to the User Generated Content proposal -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:43:23 <JenniferS> Janina: we went through the survey responses, made attempt to clarify & simplify our language
14:43:50 <JenniferS> Janina: there's an incorrect link in the first questions, #2. it will be fixed soon.
14:44:28 <JenniferS> Janina: hopefully this is simpler language, responded to issues that were raised, and esp on how we described text alternatives expectations.
14:44:49 <JenniferS> Janina: hope language is simpler, helps folks with providing better text alternatives.
14:45:11 <JenniferS> Janina: there was an objection to things received by mail as user-generated content.
14:45:55 <JenniferS> Janina: a US state govt that is required to post things received by other than online, and so we pointed to that use case to explain changes involved.
14:46:13 <JenniferS> Janina: hopefully this clarifies who is creating user-generated content.
14:46:27 <jeanne> https://rawgit.com/w3c/silver/User_Generated/guidelines/index.html#user-generated-content>
14:46:32 <JenniferS> Janina: user-generated is not only about text alternatives, this is only one example of how it applies.
14:47:03 <JenniferS> Janina: there will be other method implications for the guidelines. Text alternatives is an example of the kinds of things you can expect in other guidelines.
14:47:33 <JenniferS> Janina: that's the overview. Should we go into more specific details? there's a list at the top of what we looked at and tried to change, that hopefully captures those changes.
14:48:32 <jeanne> https://rawgit.com/w3c/silver/User_Generated/guidelines/index.html#dfn-user-generated-content
14:50:34 <jeanne> Outcome -> https://rawgit.com/w3c/silver/User_Generated/outcomes/text-alternative-available-UCG.html
14:51:27 <jeanne> Definition <- https://rawgit.com/w3c/silver/User_Generated/guidelines/index.html#dfn-user-generated-content
14:51:58 <JenniferS> agenda
14:52:16 <sajkaj> zakim, take up item 4
14:52:16 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- WCAG3 Update presentation? -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:53:36 <sajkaj> jeanne: First question, is this a good idea? There are quite a few people who have joined AGWG since our FPWD was published; these could use an intro to WCAG3
14:54:23 <sajkaj> jeanne: Many WBS answers appear to have a loack of comprehension of what's different about WCAG3
14:54:48 <sajkaj> jeanne: Suggest we can do it for our AGWG group first; then repeat as a Breakout during TPAC
14:54:53 <sajkaj> +1000
14:54:55 <sarahhorton> Good idea!
14:55:21 <sajkaj> jeanne: Probably need to do this regularly
14:58:25 <sajkaj> jeanne: Reminds about open WBS all to get 3rd Quarter WD ready to publish
14:58:56 <sajkaj> jeanne: Very important over the next 3 weeks to get a good WD through CfC
15:01:17 <sajkaj> zakim, bye
15:01:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jeanne, sajkaj, JenniferS, sarahhorton, JF, Makoto, SuzanneTaylor, Francis_Storr
15:01:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #silver
15:01:23 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/06-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
15:01:59 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make log public
15:02:04 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/06-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
15:02:21 <sajkaj> rrsagent, part
15:02:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items