13:36:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:36:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/05-i18n-irc
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13:36:46 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:36:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:36:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:36:52 <trackbot> Date: 05 August 2021
13:36:55 <addison> agendabot, find agenda
13:36:55 <agendabot> addison, OK. This may take a minute...
13:36:55 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0000.html
13:36:55 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:36:55 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:36:55 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:36:58 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:37:00 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:37:02 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:37:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Updates to an article
13:37:04 <agendabot> agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
13:37:07 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:37:36 <addison> agenda+ Ok to merge Charmod-norm PR ?
13:38:38 <addison> agenda+ Consider fully supporting RTL and Bidi URLs
13:38:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/05-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:53:47 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:58:50 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
13:59:10 <addison> present+
13:59:17 <addison> present+ Richard, Fuqiao
13:59:44 <addison> present+ Felix
13:59:49 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
14:00:29 <atsushi> present+
14:03:57 <addison> present+ Bert
14:04:49 <addison> agenda?
14:04:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:04:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:06:53 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:02 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:07:26 <fsasaki> addison: not working on string meta at the moment
14:07:32 <fsasaki> ... need to wrap up 1017
14:07:36 <fsasaki> action-1034?
14:07:36 <trackbot> action-1034 -- Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN
14:07:36 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1034
14:07:43 <fsasaki> addison: ongoing
14:07:46 <fsasaki> action-1039?
14:07:46 <trackbot> action-1039 -- Richard Ishida to Propose pr for https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4814 -- due 2021-07-01 -- OPEN
14:07:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1039
14:07:51 <fsasaki> richard: ongoing
14:08:00 <fsasaki> action-1048?
14:08:00 <trackbot> action-1048 -- Addison Phillips to Create PR on webauthn with new metadata proposal -- due 2021-07-21 -- OPEN
14:08:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1048
14:08:09 <fsasaki> addison: ongoing
14:08:20 <fsasaki> ... they asked me back to their telco, next week
14:08:34 <fsasaki> ... will start prototyping the text
14:08:40 <fsasaki> action-1050?
14:08:40 <trackbot> action-1050 -- Addison Phillips to Merge string-meta changes pending richard's review of the glossary changes -- due 2021-07-22 -- OPEN
14:08:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1050
14:08:47 <fsasaki> addison: is the glossary updated?
14:08:49 <fsasaki> richard: yes
14:08:55 <fsasaki> addison: I will then merge my stuff
14:08:58 <fsasaki> action-1051?
14:08:58 <trackbot> action-1051 -- Addison Phillips to File issues about domexception against webidl to add metadata and to provide for localizability -- due 2021-07-22 -- OPEN
14:08:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1051
14:09:05 <fsasaki> addision: tbd
14:09:08 <fsasaki> action-1052?
14:09:08 <trackbot> action-1052 -- Richard Ishida to Investigate glossary linking solutions, e.g. marcos's -- due 2021-07-29 -- OPEN
14:09:08 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1052
14:09:26 <fsasaki> richard: ongoing, but OK to close
14:09:32 <addison> close action-1052
14:09:32 <trackbot> Closed action-1052.
14:09:41 <fsasaki> action-1053?
14:09:41 <trackbot> action-1053 -- Richard Ishida to Make pr for charmod-norm with proposed additions to mustard and organizational updates to section 3.2 -- due 2021-07-29 -- OPEN
14:09:41 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1053
14:09:58 <fsasaki> addison: that is the agenda+, ok to close this
14:10:03 <addison> close action-1053
14:10:03 <trackbot> Closed action-1053.
14:10:12 <fsasaki> action-1054?
14:10:13 <trackbot> action-1054 -- Addison Phillips to Notify that dom review completed with no new issues (outstanding issues remain open for future work) -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
14:10:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1054
14:10:20 <fsasaki> addison: done
14:10:23 <addison> close action-1054
14:10:23 <trackbot> Closed action-1054.
14:10:30 <fsasaki> action-1054?
14:10:30 <trackbot> action-1054 -- Addison Phillips to Notify that dom review completed with no new issues (outstanding issues remain open for future work) -- due 2021-08-05 -- CLOSED
14:10:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1054
14:10:59 <fsasaki> addison: need help from Richard to work on this, will discuss offline
14:11:08 <fsasaki> richard: start with the guide
14:11:10 <fsasaki> addison: will do
14:11:22 <fsasaki> .. do we need to do trans req?
14:11:24 <fsasaki> richard: yes
14:11:41 <fsasaki> xfq: do you want to send this to wide review after publication?
14:11:48 <fsasaki> addison: will discuss this as a group
14:11:56 <fsasaki> ... but we want to get this into TR space
14:12:01 <fsasaki> action-1056?
14:12:01 <trackbot> action-1056 -- Richard Ishida to Publish the paragraph direction definition -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
14:12:01 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1056
14:12:06 <addison> close action-1056
14:12:06 <trackbot> Closed action-1056.
14:12:06 <fsasaki> richard: done
14:12:14 <fsasaki> action-1057?
14:12:14 <trackbot> action-1057 -- Richard Ishida to Add more information about using left/right as well as start/end -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
14:12:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1057
14:12:18 <fsasaki> richard: done
14:12:25 <addison> close action-1057
14:12:25 <trackbot> Closed action-1057.
14:12:45 <fsasaki> .. I did edit in HTML and CSS authoring guidelines and other docds
14:12:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:12:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:12:51 <fsasaki> s/docds/docs/
14:13:18 <fsasaki> richard: new charters will start on October 1st
14:13:29 <fsasaki> ... request for review to AC will be sent out soon
14:14:01 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:14:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:14:28 <fsasaki> richard: more infoshare .. had telco with Apple folks, who are involved in language enablement
14:14:43 <fsasaki> ... going to be working with Miles more to pick things for the safari folks to work on
14:14:59 <fsasaki> ... if you have a preference for things to be fixed sooner than later, let me know
14:15:09 <fsasaki> ... they seemed happy with the progress made
14:15:17 <fsasaki> addison: any areas you want to focus on?
14:15:37 <fsasaki> richard: I made a shortlist of things specific to safari, just my personal point of view
14:15:42 <r12a> ---
14:15:44 <fsasaki> ... see here:
14:15:46 <r12a> - [ ] Customised counter styles are unavailable https://github.com/w3c/iip/issues/93
14:15:46 <r12a> - [ ] Support for isolating formatting characters lacking https://github.com/w3c/afrlreq/issues/10
14:15:46 <r12a> - [ ] CSS writing-modes 4, sideways values not implemented https://github.com/w3c/eurlreq/issues/11
14:15:48 <r12a> - [ ] Logical keyword support for shortcuts  https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/217
14:15:50 <r12a> - [ ] Q element produces incorrect quotation marks when language changes https://github.com/w3c/eurlreq/issues/22
14:15:52 <r12a> - [ ] In-page search fails on ruby-annotated text https://github.com/w3c/jlreq/issues/255
14:15:54 <r12a> - [ ] Poor level of support for vertical form controls https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/247
14:15:56 <r12a> - [ ] Mongolian support badly broken https://github.com/w3c/mlreq/issues/39
14:15:58 <r12a> ---
14:17:19 <fsasaki> addison: a really good list!
14:17:55 <fsasaki> richard: around ruby, many things are going on
14:18:17 <fsasaki> ... elika and florian are trying to push ruby into HTML
14:18:45 <fsasaki> ... everybody wants ruby to be fixed asap
14:19:42 <fsasaki> xfq: my question was related not only to bopomofo, but general ruby
14:20:00 <fsasaki> ... chris and I have been discussing @@@ issues in CSS
14:20:16 <fsasaki> ... these involve also some I18N issues
14:20:40 <fsasaki> richard: plh is pushing as well, asking if I18N can do something
14:20:50 <fsasaki> ... we have done a lot, suggesting methods to address the issues
14:21:05 <fsasaki> ... things are now with Chris to get things moving
14:21:09 <fsasaki> ... there is two issues:
14:21:23 <fsasaki> ... font fingerprinting, and generic fallbacks
14:21:25 <fsasaki> xfq: and ruby
14:21:30 <fsasaki> richard: yes
14:21:42 <fsasaki> ... important to pay attention if stuff starts moving again
14:21:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:21:46 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:21:47 <xfq> s/@@@ issues/blocking issues/
14:21:57 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:22:41 <fsasaki> addison: css masking
14:22:45 <fsasaki> xfq: will take a look
14:23:03 <fsasaki> richard: chris did a self review, you may want to look at that
14:23:45 <fsasaki> ... masking spec may have issues related to text direction
14:23:54 <fsasaki> xfq: yes, potential issues
14:23:58 <addison> agenda?
14:24:19 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:24:19 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Ok to merge Charmod-norm PR ? -- taken up [from addison]
14:25:04 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/charmod-norm/pull/217
14:26:12 <fsasaki> addison: goal is to review this and to publish all accumulated updates to TR
14:26:31 <fsasaki> richard: I need a reminder on this, e.g. an action
14:26:56 <fsasaki> addison: any comments on the changes?
14:26:57 <r12a> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/charmod-norm/pull/217.html#performNorm
14:28:01 <fsasaki> no comments
14:28:10 <fsasaki> addison: any objections to publish this?
14:28:26 <addison> action: richard: merge pr217 and publish charmod-norm to TR
14:28:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1058 - Merge pr217 and publish charmod-norm to tr [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-08-12].
14:28:36 <addison> agenda?
14:28:52 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:28:52 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Updates to an article -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:29:16 <addison> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/justification.en#sea
14:29:48 <fsasaki> richard: previous version of section was very short
14:30:07 <fsasaki> ... now it is more detailed, repurposes stuff from other articles
14:30:28 <fsasaki> addison: looks good to me
14:30:30 <fsasaki> +1
14:30:46 <xfq> +1
14:31:15 <addison> action: richard: publish update to typography article
14:31:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1059 - Publish update to typography article [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-08-12].
14:31:33 <addison> agenda?
14:31:41 <r12a> Approaches to full justification
14:31:50 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:31:50 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:32:09 <fsasaki> addison: we have a long list of items
14:32:19 <fsasaki> ... links to issue sets are in the agenda
14:32:39 <fsasaki> ... some issues we need to look at, or say "otherwise"
14:32:43 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3As%3Atracking-dnt
14:32:59 <fsasaki> addison: first is tracking dnt, see above link
14:34:09 <fsasaki> felix: group is closed?
14:34:16 <fsasaki> richard: yes, and the doc has become a note
14:34:48 <fsasaki> bert: anybody will answer our comments, so will we archive this until there is a group to answer?
14:34:55 <fsasaki> richard: agree
14:35:33 <fsasaki> ... we close it and put a "recycle" label on it, so that we can resurrect it later
14:36:11 <fsasaki> addison: doc is a note, WG is closed, so what is the state of the review? We are unsatisfied?
14:36:24 <fsasaki> richard: nobody will worry about the status from the transition point of view
14:36:38 <fsasaki> ... "recylce" means: "closed" but not resolved, from our perspective
14:36:58 <fsasaki> addison: OK with "recycle" label and close
14:38:34 <fsasaki> addison added the label and closed the issue
14:38:48 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3As%3Apush-api
14:38:54 <fsasaki> addison: moving to push api
14:40:38 <fsasaki> discussion of what labels to add to tracking-dtn
14:41:12 <fsasaki> addison: push-api is simpler, both issues are marked for "close"
14:42:10 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/push-api/
14:42:18 <fsasaki> document is a WD
14:42:35 <fsasaki> richard: are we satisfied?
14:43:23 <fsasaki> richard: atsushi, do you remember whether the PR fixed the problem?
14:43:35 <addison> s/tracking-dtn/tracking-dnt/
14:46:11 <fsasaki> addison: the pull request does not seem to talk about the topic of the issue
14:46:51 <fsasaki> ... but indirectly fixes the issue
14:48:25 <fsasaki> ... I think that they have addressed the issue
14:49:08 <fsasaki> ... any objections against closing?
14:49:24 <fsasaki> no objections
14:50:40 <fsasaki> addison: moving to the next issue
14:52:01 <fsasaki> ... question is whether a health warning is required
14:52:53 <fsasaki> richard: the FFFE characters are the health warning
14:52:59 <fsasaki> ... that is why it does not fall over
14:53:02 <fsasaki> ... you get something
14:53:39 <fsasaki> addison: there is nothing saying "if you send non utf-8, it will not work"
14:53:51 <fsasaki> ... there is a lot of discussions about byte sequences
14:54:17 <fsasaki> richard: I thought that non utf-8 stuff will be decoded to utf-8
14:54:30 <fsasaki> ... and if something goes wrong, we get an error situation
14:55:08 <fsasaki> addison: if you have bytes which are text, and not utf-8
14:55:17 <fsasaki> ... you need an array buffer and then decode yourself
14:55:27 <fsasaki> richard: that is what their code does
14:55:39 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/push-api/#pushmessagedata-interface
14:55:42 <fsasaki> addison: correct
14:56:08 <fsasaki> addison: that is an interface to get the content of the push message
14:56:20 <fsasaki> ... if you want to read the message as text, the message needs to be utf-8
14:57:31 <fsasaki> ... should we bring this to the top of their list again?
14:57:41 <fsasaki> richard: this is about their text method
14:58:07 <fsasaki> addison: you take the bytes, and use "utf-8 decode" to generate a unicode string
14:58:23 <fsasaki> ... you return the unicode string as a value
14:58:59 <fsasaki> richard: they say that issues are handled by the "utf 8 decode" algorithm
14:59:04 <fsasaki> addison: that is ok
14:59:22 <fsasaki> ... I am just saying there should be a health warning that this depends on the data to be in utf-8
14:59:41 <fsasaki> ... if you have other encodings, the "text" methods will not handle the encoding conversion
14:59:58 <fsasaki> ... should I make a separate comment?
15:00:04 <fsasaki> richard: yes, and close this one
15:03:25 <addison> addison: completed?
15:03:38 <addison> richard: with a new issue probably not?
15:04:02 <atsushi> +1 for new one..
15:04:31 <addison> Topic: AOB?
15:06:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/05-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:06:08 <r12a> present+ r12a
15:06:17 <r12a> present+ r12a2