15:40:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
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15:40:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:40:56 <trackbot> Date: 04 August 2021
15:41:06 <janina> agenda?
15:41:10 <janina> Chair:  Janina
15:41:10 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
15:41:10 <janina> agenda+ TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
15:41:10 <janina> agenda+ Task Force Updates
15:41:10 <janina> agenda+ FAST Update
15:41:12 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
15:41:15 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
15:41:18 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:41:21 <janina> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
15:41:24 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
15:41:26 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:41:29 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:53:18 <janina>  regrets: Becky_Gibson, Amy_Carney
15:56:09 <janina> present+
15:56:11 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
15:59:06 <Gottfried> present+
15:59:26 <janina> present+
15:59:41 <FredrikFischer> FredrikFischer has joined #apa
15:59:48 <FredrikFischer> present+
16:00:18 <JF> JF has joined #apa
16:00:24 <JF> agenda?
16:00:38 <JF> Present+
16:01:25 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
16:01:29 <mike_beganyi> present+
16:02:36 <FredrikFischer> Would a TPAC topic be a TPIC?
16:03:18 <paul_grenier> present+
16:03:35 <Gottfried> accessibilityFeature property in schema.org CreativeWork class: http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/accessibilityFeature.html
16:06:08 <Gottfried> scribe: Gottfried
16:06:12 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:06:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
16:06:27 <Gottfried> agenda?
16:07:54 <Gottfried> janina: Two CfC are open: Publish XAUR, Comment on PiP spec.
16:08:13 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:08:13 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021 -- taken up [from janina]
16:08:48 <Gottfried> janina: Will post proposed meetings on the Wiki. Around 14 perspective meetings.
16:08:57 <Gottfried> ... Will try to combine some of them.
16:09:14 <Gottfried> ... Cross-group meetings will be in the first week, starting Oct. 14.
16:09:58 <Gottfried> ... Meeting planned on existing accessibility APIs.
16:10:48 <Gottfried> ... Request to persons who have raised comments on this issue. Please attend this meeting in the second week.
16:11:44 <Gottfried> ... Plan to have a plan for our meetings by next week.
16:12:33 <Gottfried> ... We will be reaching out to other groups for joint meetings.
16:13:09 <Gottfried> ... Some of the 14 meetings were intended to be break-out sessions.
16:13:12 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:13:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates -- taken up [from janina]
16:13:46 <Gottfried> janina: RQ - XAUR ready to become a note.
16:14:13 <Gottfried> ... Still working on doc: Guidance on how to hold remote meetings accessibly.
16:14:47 <Gottfried> ... Will also include the experience of the last couple of years.
16:14:56 <Gottfried> ... Will have a first public wd by TPAC.
16:15:46 <Gottfried> ... Other docs are also on work by RQ.
16:16:07 <Gottfried> ... Pronunciation wg also working on github issues.
16:16:56 <Gottfried> ... Joint meeting with Coga requested.
16:17:10 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:17:10 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- FAST Update -- taken up [from janina]
16:17:33 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Nothing to report.
16:17:47 <Gottfried> zakim, close this item
16:17:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
16:17:48 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:17:48 <Zakim> 5. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from janina]
16:17:49 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:17:49 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
16:18:12 <Gottfried> MichaelC: No new charters.
16:18:16 <Gottfried> zakim, close this item
16:18:16 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
16:18:17 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:18:17 <Zakim> 6. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
16:18:19 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:18:19 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
16:18:42 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
16:19:06 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Had already auto, thin and none.
16:19:09 <Gottfried> ... Do we care?
16:20:07 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Quote: "This could create concerns for users with specific accessibility needs."
16:20:55 <Gottfried> janina: I think that a braille display would use the wide value.
16:21:24 <Gottfried> ... The wider the scrollbar the better.
16:22:43 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: The wide value controls the scroll bar.
16:24:10 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: Accessibility concern is that the none option removes the scroll bar, and only mouse users can scroll.
16:24:21 <Gottfried> ... Maybe voice control would work.
16:25:25 <Gottfried> Lionel: So one perceptual element is eliminated - that's the concern.
16:25:54 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: It is recommended if using "none", other ways of scrolling should be provided.
16:27:11 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Could the "wide" value being added be an a11y issue as well?  E.g. for high zoom factors.
16:27:25 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: "wide" could be overridden by a user style sheet.
16:27:45 <Gottfried> ... If "thin" is not a concern - why would "wide" be?
16:27:49 <JF> Q+
16:28:13 <Gottfried> ... "none" has to have big warning signs.
16:28:18 <janina> q?
16:28:23 <janina> ack jf
16:28:35 <Gottfried> JF: They are specifying "auto" without defining what it means.
16:28:49 <Gottfried> ... We should provide feedback that "auto" should be defined.
16:29:17 <Gottfried> janina: We should create a comment about "auto".
16:29:28 <FredrikFischer> q+
16:30:00 <Lionel> Lionel has joined #Apa
16:30:06 <JF> the scroll bar should zoom at the same degree as the on-screen content
16:30:15 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: If "auto" is meant to vary between sizes, what does it mean when the user zoomes?
16:30:24 <Lionel> present+
16:30:49 <Gottfried> ... If authors want to define break points for the size of the scrollbar, go for it.
16:30:56 <Lionel> A+
16:31:05 <Lionel> a+
16:31:13 <Lionel> a+
16:31:23 <Gottfried> JF: "auto" should mean that the scrollbar should grow at the same pace as the font size.
16:31:32 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: Could even be a user-selected setting.
16:31:55 <Gottfried> ... As a keyboard user, i don't need a larger target for the scrollbar.
16:32:23 <Gottfried> ... Let browsers get some experience with it, then define it.
16:32:50 <Gottfried> JF: We should give feedback of the ways this could be interpreted. And ask them for clarification.
16:33:09 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: Browser manufacturers should drive this.
16:33:18 <janina> q?
16:33:35 <Gottfried> Lionel: Two things: 1. Definition of "auto" is missing.
16:33:36 <FredrikFischer> q-
16:34:09 <Gottfried> ... 2. Alternative method for scrolling should be offered when the scrollbar is not displayed.
16:34:31 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: If nobody else wants this, i can take it.
16:35:12 <Gottfried> ACTION: paul_grenier to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width, https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
16:35:12 <trackbot> Error finding 'paul_grenier'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.
16:35:32 <Gottfried> ACTION: PaulG to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width, https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
16:35:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] add wide value to scrollbar-width, https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351 [on Paul Grenier - due 2021-08-11].
16:37:09 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:37:09 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
16:37:34 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/ CSS Fonts Module Level 5
16:38:01 <Gottfried> MichaelC: We might want to review this one.
16:38:32 <Gottfried> janina: Ian here?
16:38:40 <Gottfried> ... What was our concern?
16:39:38 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Emojis...  A lot of discussion.
16:40:07 <Gottfried> ... Paul could start with review of level 5 and then go up.
16:40:20 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: Is there a link to the changes?
16:40:58 <Gottfried> MichaelC: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629
16:41:09 <FredrikFischer> q+
16:41:24 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Level 4 is still in WD.
16:41:40 <Gottfried> ... Best to complete the comments on level 4 first.
16:42:17 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10/ EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0
16:42:44 <Gottfried> janina: Could be of some interest to pronunciation wg.
16:42:49 <Gottfried> s/wg/tf
16:42:49 <JF> Q+
16:43:26 <Gottfried> MichaelC: We should talk with pronunciation about this
16:43:38 <Gottfried> paul_grenier: The old colon-namespace is not the model we are going for.
16:44:05 <Gottfried> ... I or Markku Hakkinen could address it
16:44:26 <Gottfried> ... They should better diverge from the XML namespacing.
16:44:53 <Gottfried> MichaelC: It is a WG note currently.
16:45:12 <Gottfried> ... Not clear why they picked a different notation.
16:45:22 <Gottfried> ... Let's all sync up our proposals.
16:45:30 <JF> Q?
16:45:49 <janina> ack jf
16:45:51 <Gottfried> ... Maybe they are not aware of the status of an "official note".
16:46:13 <Gottfried> JF: They are talking about stand-alone reading systems, not necessarily a full-blown screenreader.
16:46:43 <Gottfried> ... I agree we got a better solution from the pronunciation tf.
16:46:54 <Gottfried> ... We can try and win them for our solution.
16:47:05 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Browsers will not support two approaches.
16:47:39 <Gottfried> JF: Thorium will read the page out loud.
16:48:02 <JF> https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/
16:49:10 <Gottfried> FredrikFischer: Agree with John. We should try to get them use the solution by pron tf.
16:49:13 <JF> +1 to Janina
16:49:48 <Gottfried> MichaelC: We should try to do something about notes. This should be just a note, not a "normative note".
16:50:32 <Gottfried> janina: I am concerned about the discrepancy between EPUB and our pron tf.
16:50:45 <FredrikFischer> What's the difference between a recommendationand a normative note other than the normative note having a somewhat less grueling review process?
16:51:04 <Gottfried> ... On our planned agenda for TPAC, we wanted to talk about schemas.
16:51:14 <Gottfried> ... We should add this to the agenda.
16:52:16 <Gottfried> ACTION: FredrikFischer to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0, https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks
16:52:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2302 - Review epub 3 text-to-speech enhancements 1.0, https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks [on Fredrik Fischer - due 2021-08-11].
16:52:38 <Gottfried> ACTION-2302 due 08/18/21
16:52:38 <trackbot> Set ACTION-2302 Review epub 3 text-to-speech enhancements 1.0, https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks due date to 2021-08-18.
16:53:31 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/viss2-core/ VISS version 2 - Core
16:54:14 <Gottfried> janina: Scoping in automotive is not really related to accessibility
16:54:28 <Gottfried> MichaelC: Next one is on transport. We can probably ignore that.
16:55:07 <Gottfried> JF: Is messaging a concern for us?
16:55:16 <Gottfried> janina: It is about temperature etc.
16:56:01 <Gottfried> ... Android auto seems to be the choice for the car dashboard.
16:56:33 <Gottfried> JF: Section 6 has a subsection on privacy.
16:57:01 <Gottfried> ... At a minimum, we should have a statement on accessibility. "In terms of messaging, avoid a single modality".
16:57:15 <Gottfried> janina: I don't think this is much about output for the dashboard. This is about datapoints.
16:57:30 <Gottfried> JF: In-vehicle application best pratices.
16:58:01 <Gottfried> ... We should look more into this spec. Also talk about accessibility in the same way as for privacy.
16:58:35 <Gottfried> Lionel: This might just be a best-practices of data handling.
16:58:35 <JF> https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29
16:59:24 <Gottfried> JF: At a minimum, we should review what they have on accessibility in https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices.
16:59:55 <Gottfried> janina: Difficult to get accessibility in because of the way this spec has been scoped.
17:00:51 <Gottfried> ... They say accessibility is out of scope for those specs that are under w3c.
17:01:00 <Gottfried> JF: They make this a non-normative requirement.
17:01:15 <Gottfried> ... Somebody should really review this accessibility section.
17:01:26 <Gottfried> Lionel: I am interested.
17:02:24 <Gottfried> ACTION: Lionel to review the accessibility section in the VISS Best Practices document, https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29 due 09/04/21
17:02:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2303 - Review the accessibility section in the viss best practices document, https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/best_practices#accessibility_.28a11y.29 due 09/04/21 [on Lionel Wolberger - due 2021-08-11].
17:02:46 <Gottfried> ACTION-2030 due 09/04/21
17:02:46 <trackbot> Set ACTION-2030 See if reporting api 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/ has applicability to a11y policy reporting due date to 2021-09-04.
17:03:16 <Gottfried> janina: Meeting adjourned
17:03:22 <Gottfried> ... Thanks everyone
17:03:35 <Gottfried> zakim, bye
17:03:35 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been janina, Gottfried, FredrikFischer, JF, mike_beganyi, paul_grenier, Lionel
17:03:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
17:03:38 <Gottfried> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html Gottfried
17:08:18 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: APA Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 11 August at 1600Z