IRC log of i18n on 2021-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:24:31 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:24:32 [Zakim]
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13:24:42 [addison]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
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RRSAgent, make logs public
13:24:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:24:48 [trackbot]
Date: 29 July 2021
13:24:49 [addison]
agendabot, find agenda
13:24:50 [agendabot]
addison, OK. This may take a minute...
13:24:51 [agendabot]
13:24:51 [agendabot]
clear agenda
13:24:51 [agendabot]
agenda+ Agenda Review
13:24:51 [agendabot]
agenda+ Action Items
13:24:53 [agendabot]
agenda+ Info Share
13:24:55 [agendabot]
agenda+ RADAR Review
13:24:57 [agendabot]
agenda+ Localizable Manifests FPWD?
13:24:57 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:25:00 [agendabot]
agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
13:25:02 [agendabot]
agenda+ AOB?
13:25:31 [addison]
agenda+ Updates to HTML/CSS techniques and an article
13:25:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
13:53:27 [addison]
13:53:39 [JcK]
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13:55:23 [xfq]
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13:56:51 [addison]
present+ Fuqiao
13:59:06 [xfq__]
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14:01:47 [addison]
present+ Richard, Atsushi
14:03:05 [addison]
present+ Bert
14:03:11 [fsasaki]
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14:03:52 [addison]
present+ Felix
14:04:07 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:04:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:09 [addison]
14:04:45 [addison]
agenda+ geolocation
14:04:59 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:10 [addison]
14:05:25 [atsushi]
addison: jump into action items, couple of documentation items
14:05:25 [JcK]
present+ JcK
14:05:58 [addison]
14:05:58 [trackbot]
action-1031 -- Addison Phillips to Document the state of payment-request -- due 2021-06-03 -- OPEN
14:05:58 [trackbot]
14:06:05 [addison]
close action-1031
14:06:05 [trackbot]
Closed action-1031.
14:06:11 [atsushi]
addison: 1031 done while ago
14:07:02 [atsushi]
... 1048 create to WebAuthn, get another email from Wendy, and will have a call next week
14:07:09 [addison]
14:07:09 [trackbot]
action-1049 -- Addison Phillips to Close open completed reviews -- due 2021-07-22 -- OPEN
14:07:09 [trackbot]
14:07:13 [addison]
close action-1049
14:07:13 [trackbot]
Closed action-1049.
14:07:15 [atsushi]
... 1049 I did
14:07:54 [addison]
14:07:54 [trackbot]
action-1050 -- Addison Phillips to Merge string-meta changes pending richard's review of the glossary changes -- due 2021-07-22 -- OPEN
14:07:54 [trackbot]
14:08:09 [addison]
agenda+ paragraph direction in glossary
14:08:12 [atsushi]
r12a: 1050 want to raise review from group on proposed change
14:08:24 [atsushi]
addison: added as agenda
14:08:34 [addison]
14:08:34 [trackbot]
action-1052 -- Richard Ishida to Investigate glossary linking solutions, e.g. marcos's -- due 2021-07-29 -- OPEN
14:08:34 [trackbot]
14:08:46 [atsushi]
r12a: 1052 investigation on going
14:09:09 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
14:09:09 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:51 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:09:51 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:59 [addison]
14:10:07 [atsushi]
addison: no new incoming
14:10:30 [atsushi]
... xfq done DOM, is there anything review there
14:10:54 [atsushi]
xfq: I've took a look, and found any issue about the changes to the last review draft
14:11:01 [atsushi]
... remaining two open issues
14:11:18 [xfq__]
14:11:24 [atsushi]
... seems not a blocker for release
14:12:06 [atsushi]
addison: move to completed (no objection from attendee)
14:12:33 [atsushi]
... will take an action to notify the WG
14:12:46 [addison]
action: addison: notify that DOM review completed with no new issues (outstanding issues remain open for future work)
14:12:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1054 - Notify that dom review completed with no new issues (outstanding issues remain open for future work) [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-08-05].
14:12:59 [addison]
14:13:18 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 5
14:13:18 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Localizable Manifests FPWD? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:13:43 [atsushi]
addison: we have a repo, in a position to add references
14:13:57 [atsushi]
... a bit work to be done before publication on documents
14:14:29 [atsushi]
... do we put this into /TR/ now?
14:14:47 [addison]
move to publish localizable-manifest as FPWD
14:14:57 [addison]
14:14:57 [fsasaki]
14:14:58 [atsushi]
14:15:00 [xfq__]
14:15:01 [r12a]
14:15:01 [Bert]
14:15:13 [JcK]
0 -- I have no competence to have an opinion about this
14:15:52 [atsushi]
r12a: haven't looked much, so 0
14:16:08 [atsushi]
addison: it's just a FPWD
14:16:10 [addison]
14:16:25 [addison]
RESOLVED: publish localizable-manifests as a first public working draft
14:16:25 [atsushi]
r12a: that's why not -1 but 0
14:16:50 [atsushi]
addison: who to take an action?
14:17:04 [atsushi]
... I will
14:17:20 [addison]
action: addison: publish localizable-manifests as FPWD with help from richard
14:17:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1055 - Publish localizable-manifests as fpwd with help from richard [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-08-05].
14:17:27 [addison]
14:17:48 [xfq__]
14:18:07 [atsushi]
xfq: this is a well used approach
14:18:27 [atsushi]
addison: there are several approaches on this,
14:18:48 [atsushi]
... some recommendations could be here, but not as must
14:19:49 [atsushi]
... PR and/or suggestions are welcome
14:20:06 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 10
14:20:06 [Zakim]
agendum 10 -- paragraph direction in glossary -- taken up [from addison]
14:20:23 [atsushi]
addison: let's jump into this quickly
14:20:47 [xfq__]
s/this is a well used approach/Several common approaches are currently listed in the document. Should we recommend one of them?/
14:20:57 [addison]
14:21:28 [atsushi]
addison: after discussion, we've learned on dir for paragraph or block of text
14:21:40 [r12a]
14:21:57 [atsushi]
... PR raised to move some text into glossary, for proposed definition
14:22:41 [addison]
14:22:51 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 9
14:22:51 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- geolocation -- taken up [from addison]
14:23:06 [r12a]
ACTION: richard to publish the paragraph direction definition
14:23:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1056 - Publish the paragraph direction definition [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-08-05].
14:23:13 [xfq__]
14:23:17 [atsushi]
xfq: we have one open tracker issue, on error message
14:23:23 [xfq__]
14:23:40 [atsushi]
... Marcos has closed WG issue, and also filed into WebIDL issue
14:23:57 [atsushi]
... I'd want to ask whether it is ok to close tracker issue on geolocation, as CR-blocker
14:24:12 [atsushi]
addison: what's the current text?
14:24:14 [xfq__]
14:24:45 [atsushi]
xfq: this subsection, added note as don't show this message to user interface etc.
14:25:18 [r12a]
seems ok to me
14:25:34 [r12a]
basically, this is debugging comments
14:25:37 [atsushi]
14:25:39 [addison]
14:26:05 [atsushi]
addison: don't think any additional is needed
14:26:22 [atsushi]
... also WebIDL might be fixed near future
14:27:05 [addison]
14:27:18 [r12a]
Resolution: close the issue
14:27:19 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 8
14:27:19 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- Updates to HTML/CSS techniques and an article -- taken up [from addison]
14:27:42 [r12a]
14:28:05 [atsushi]
r12a: changed styling last week, introduction on selecter
14:28:20 [atsushi]
s/introduction on/introduced /
14:28:52 [r12a]
14:29:12 [atsushi]
r12a: this link points to styling counter part
14:29:32 [atsushi]
... link to article in MDN, and they link back to our counter-style collection
14:29:59 [r12a]
14:30:49 [atsushi]
r12a: links to MDN can introduce readers on how-to documents, and no need to be included into here
14:31:49 [atsushi]
addison: looks good to me
14:32:34 [atsushi]
felix: listing do-s, but not don't-s?
14:33:03 [atsushi]
r12a: by default no don't-s, but if there is any preference...
14:33:39 [atsushi]
jck: consistency is more important
14:34:44 [r12a]
14:34:55 [atsushi]
r12a: sounds like no strong push back, go as is
14:35:06 [r12a]
14:35:17 [atsushi]
r12a: another point is text-align start/end value
14:35:43 [atsushi]
... how these work on left alignment and right alignment et.c
14:36:43 [atsushi]
bert: majority of people use no more than two language, and use left/right in existing ones
14:37:25 [atsushi]
r12a: most of people who don't use start/end, on porting into another language they will get issues
14:37:47 [atsushi]
... also I have never feel difficult to understand other logical properties
14:38:25 [atsushi]
... like for vertical writing, logical could work automatically
14:39:03 [atsushi]
... could happen something like translated contents
14:40:03 [atsushi]
bert: two issues, want to tell left as left, I don't feel most of people need to use these
14:41:38 [atsushi]
r12a: considering translator, using left and right have context and it could lead difficulty to handle text
14:42:08 [atsushi]
jck: that should be a mixed problem
14:43:16 [atsushi]
r12a: you also need to think about page layout, in arabic book or vertical book
14:44:16 [atsushi]
addison: for Bert's point, if you are preparing a page for specific language, using left/right could be an issue on usability
14:44:50 [atsushi]
... for my task, using in another language, left vs start could have some harm
14:45:30 [atsushi]
... in general, super agreement on logical keyword should be used
14:46:26 [atsushi]
... another hand, most developer's reaction could be using left is easily understandable
14:46:47 [atsushi]
r12a: we are about to offer advice, if they don't want follow it should be fine
14:47:44 [atsushi]
... personally I feel writing an advice is helpful
14:49:03 [atsushi]
r12a: CSS writing techniques document is different from spec
14:49:34 [r12a]
ACTION: Richard to add more information about using left/right as well as start/end
14:49:34 [atsushi]
addison: first, any action item we need to take on this topic?
14:49:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1057 - Add more information about using left/right as well as start/end [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-08-05].
14:50:32 [addison]
14:50:55 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 6
14:50:55 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:51:31 [atsushi]
addison: number of items here, I've proposed to close
14:51:41 [addison]
14:51:43 [atsushi]
... in the list in agenda email
14:52:12 [atsushi]
addison: more time to review these?
14:53:15 [atsushi]
... next week to start with these by working through?
14:53:22 [atsushi]
r12a: +1
14:53:39 [addison]
Topic: AOB?
14:54:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
14:54:34 [addison]
zakim, who is here?
14:54:34 [Zakim]
Present: addison, Fuqiao, Richard, Atsushi, Bert, Felix, JcK
14:54:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fsasaki, xfq__, JcK, Zakim, RRSAgent, addison, r12a, atsushi, agendabot, trackbot, koji, sangwhan, astearns, hadleybeeman, bigbluehat, Mek, florian, cwilso, hsivonen,
14:54:36 [Zakim]
... Bert
14:54:41 [addison]
zakim, bye
14:54:41 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been addison, Fuqiao, Richard, Atsushi, Bert, Felix, JcK
14:54:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
15:07:55 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a