15:40:24 RRSAgent has joined #silver-conf 15:40:24 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-silver-conf-irc 15:40:40 Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup 15:40:47 Date: 22 Jul 2021 15:40:52 Chair: sajkaj 15:40:57 rrsagent, make log public 15:41:02 agenda? 15:41:05 Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items 15:41:05 agenda+ User Generated https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content 15:41:08 agenda+ Other Business 15:41:10 agenda+ Be Done 15:41:24 rrsagent, make minutes 15:41:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj 15:44:27 present+ 15:44:44 Regrets: Wilco 15:57:47 ToddLibby has joined #silver-conf 15:58:38 JF has joined #silver-conf 15:58:46 agenda? 15:58:55 Present+ 15:59:03 present+ Jeanne 15:59:53 present+ 16:00:12 I’m irc only for a bit. 16:01:34 PeterKorn has joined #silver-conf 16:01:37 present+ 16:02:32 Azlan has joined #silver-conf 16:02:40 present+ 16:02:47 zakim, who is here? 16:02:47 Present: sajkaj, JF, Jeanne, ToddLibby, PeterKorn, Azlan 16:02:49 On IRC I see Azlan, PeterKorn, JF, ToddLibby, RRSAgent, Zakim, sajkaj, MichaelC, trackbot, Rachael 16:02:57 scribe: JF 16:03:06 zakim, next item 16:03:07 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from sajkaj] 16:03:22 SJ: simple agenda, pick up from last time 16:03:53 goal from last week was to proposed something for "licensed media" 16:04:30 but so far we remain focused on "user-generated" - will present to the larger group (AG WG) on Aug. 3rd 16:04:50 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jul/0048.html 16:05:01 ... JS and a few others met with Makoto, who has a take-away task 16:05:05 zakim, next item 16:05:05 agendum 2 -- User Generated https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content -- taken up [from sajkaj] 16:05:20 Jemma has joined #silver-conf 16:05:37 PK: had a thought: "Limited Rights" as opposed to "licensed media" 16:05:50 JS: agree, currently soliciting ideas and suggestions 16:06:09 Jeanne: sounds a tad legal, but a good start 16:06:26 JS: agreed, even though that is the precise issue we are trying to resolve 16:07:08 PK: we can iterate on that - maybe "Limited Authority"? 16:07:19 Q+ 16:07:41 ack jf 16:09:09 KimD has joined #silver-conf 16:09:41 present+ 16:09:42 JF: brings up EARL as a possible piece of the puzzle for Limited (TBD) 16:09:52 ... to keep with that discussion 16:10:24 JS: overview of changes: rewritten editors not at top 16:10:36 ...multiple versions. Hoping this is clearer now 16:10:47 ...don't consider it finished, but hope it brings clarity 16:11:14 ...majority of tweaks are above definition(s). W@as seeking 'plain language' explanations 16:11:28 ...a few additional edits in the mid-section 16:11:34 Bryan has joined #silver-conf 16:11:44 present+ 16:11:45 @Kim https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content 16:11:55 q+ 16:12:10 JS: no changes to use-cases 16:12:23 PK: noted there was an HTML typo - made a fix 16:12:27 ack pet 16:13:05 Jeanne: are we planning to have a github pull request for this? for next week? 16:13:08 +1 to that idea Jeanne 16:13:18 JS: do not believe next week is target date - target is for Aug 3 16:13:30 Jeanne: will need to be done before then 16:13:58 JS: we can create pull requests, but is still incomplete. Waiting on specific language from Makoto's group 16:14:52 ...we also need to ensure that this is all clear: is the document layout clear, definitions. etc? 16:15:15 ...We probably have most of that, but may need more questions. 16:15:36 PK: [reads aloud the content - section for reviewers] 16:19:15 ...covered the "Editor's Note" section 16:19:37 Jeanne: asking about a crosslink with FB - who is responsible? 16:19:53 PK: we've been kicking this around 16:20:04 JS: in section above Editor's not 16:20:38 "User Generated Content is provided for publication by visitors where the content platform specifically welcomes and encourages it. Any content provided by employees, contractors, or authorized volunteers of the publisher is not User Generated content. 16:20:39 s/Editor's not/Editor's note 16:20:48 "Similarly, content created by publishers on social media platforms, or on behalf of publishers on platforms such as social media (or other crowd sourced platforms), is also not User Generated content" 16:21:00 JS: the point of that section is to 'rope off' what is or isn't in scope 16:21:35 Q+ 16:21:59 PK: that last section is where I have concerns 16:22:17 Jeanne: should that only be in editor's note, or elsewhere 16:22:27 PK: would prefer to ONLY see in editor's note 16:23:03 ...also don't see clarity in that topic... it's outside of the note, but do not see it clearly in definitions. 16:23:21 ...we also should not be defining what social media platforms can or cannot do 16:23:32 ToddLibby has left #silver-conf 16:23:37 JS: we are planning on doing that guideline by guideline 16:23:43 ToddLibby_ has joined #silver-conf 16:23:49 PK: would prefer to leave it open for public feedback 16:24:53 PK: as mentioned last week.. this is a potential hole. If company ONLY has a social media presence we do not want commercial content to be excluded 16:25:14 JS: there was talk of that appearng in seperate guidance 16:25:47 PK: not sure we had agreement. Issue is defining who is authorized (and when) to be "official spokesperson" versus private citizen 16:26:15 q? 16:26:15 q? 16:26:20 ack jf 16:27:17 JF: don't see how anyone could enforce those distincitons 16:27:59 PK: also, where to define the company sponsored sub-set (if company retweets somebody else's content...) 16:28:07 q? 16:28:08 q? 16:28:34 ...don't think we should go down that road. The other concern is what we want - the bulk of comments - is on the overall proposal 16:28:46 but this Editor's Note is drawing all the attention 16:29:54 JS: seems there are w 2 questions: corporate responsibility (who and when), and then the "hosting platform's responsability" 16:30:15 PK: we spend a fair bit of time with that already - but that then leads to the current issue 16:31:30 q+ 16:31:38 PK: the concern is understood, but believes we are drilling in too deep - we have guidance at this time 16:31:52 ack br 16:32:18 BT: if someone uploads a video with flashing (critical error) - who should be responsable? 16:32:27 JS: that should be able to be tested for 16:32:44 q? 16:33:01 PK: we do have something there - in discussions with Makoto. Part of the responsibilities is that you also need to be advising the user on parameters 16:33:18 ...and using tools (AI, etc.) to help ameliorate those issues 16:33:26 JS: in Steps to Conform section 16:34:12 [discussion - may have lost some content] 16:34:32 PK: to the larger question, we do speak to that generally [JF: did?] 16:35:12 BT: do we look at the severity level as well? We can't solve everything, but based on severity should we focus on that? 16:35:29 PK: we note that until we have a new scoring proposal we will have to wait 16:36:54 PK & JS: looking at versions of previous editions - will need to do some cleanup 16:38:04 q? 16:38:17 PK: is there disagreement with suggesting that this is too big of a 'can of worms'? 16:38:32 and that we will need to come back with guidance there? 16:39:02 JS: inclined that we want to say 'something' (but not too much). Goal is to solicit comments. There is a balance that needs to be met 16:39:18 we also had a note that hosting platforms need to do some of the lifting there 16:39:21 q+ 16:41:49 [discussion on how far we can 'push' platforms] 16:42:05 JF: is it (will it be) a MUST, SHOULD, or MAY? 16:43:28 q+ 16:43:47 q? 16:43:56 JF: affordance versus quality issue 16:44:15 ack kim 16:44:25 KD: don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but anticipates question tp define 16:44:34 what is 'social media' 16:45:14 we have platforms/tools that allows for hosting of content (legal evidence for example) that isn't 'social' but it is 'user generated' 16:45:30 Jeanne: believe we had made that distinction 16:46:10 KD: hope for that. But google definitions muddy the water. So do we need to more carefully define "social media" in this situation 16:46:49 PK: believes defining social media is a rat-hole. Believes that key sentence is the one that focuses on "who" the contributor is 16:47:28 q- 16:47:36 ...the distinction being the ability to add content is not "public' - requires some kind of authorization 16:47:38 ack kim 16:47:41 ack pe 16:48:19 PK: but hearing that we need to do more work on the wiki page. Hoping for draft from Makoto, and also to address more clearly the questions raised at AG WG 16:49:56 "Key question: how to treat content submitted by representatives of a company via the user-generated contribution mechanisms of a site." 16:52:56 JF: wonders if providing an example (e.g. social media marketing role in an Org) 16:56:01 [discussion about roles - and how this is a fundamental question] 16:56:09 q? 16:57:12 Jeanne: one of the concerns raised in AG WG... 16:57:26 JS: is this a legal question of a WCAG question 16:58:05 KD: if a post says "Thomson Reuters" that's pretty clear, but if it doesn't then... 16:59:32 JS: want to get higher quality alt texts, but the second question really is about "community groups" 17:00:41 "We seek feedback on how to treat content submitted by organizations via the entry-points for user-generated contributions to a site (e.g., official contributions to the social media presence of an organization), as well as content contributed by someone who is member of an organization where the contribution relates in some way to that organization (e.g. an employee of an entertainment company replying to post by a fan on an unofficia[CUT] 17:00:54 "work for that entertainment company)" 17:02:31 ToddLibby_ has left #silver-conf 17:03:08 KimD has left #silver-conf 17:03:13 Azlan has left #silver-conf 17:03:19 zakim, bye 17:03:19 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been sajkaj, JF, Jeanne, ToddLibby, PeterKorn, Azlan, KimD, Bryan 17:03:20 Zakim has left #silver-conf 17:03:26 rrsagent, make minutes 17:03:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj 17:13:31 rrsagent, bye 17:13:31 I see no action items