14:01:16 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 14:01:16 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-irc 14:01:22 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 14:01:52 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_McCool 14:02:27 regrets+ Sebastian 14:02:31 chair: Ege 14:03:01 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_21.2C_2021 14:03:13 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:03:54 scribenick: McCool 14:04:21 mm: note, I will have to leave after 1h; Kaz can take over as scribe at that point 14:04:37 i/note/topic: Preliminary/ 14:04:44 chair: Ege 14:04:58 present+ Michael_Lagally 14:05:08 ege: will also defer minutes review to end of the meeting, and will prioritize Michael Lagally's topics as he has to leave early 14:05:38 topic: max length payload issue 14:05:47 issue 1153 14:05:47 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 14:06:03 (kaz, is the tracker started?) 14:06:49 (mm: ok) 14:07:03 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1153 Issue 1153 - max length payload metdata information 14:07:30 s/(kaz, is the tracker started?)// 14:07:31 ml: do we have to talk about length restrictions anywhere in the TD spec? 14:07:43 s/(mm: ok)// 14:08:02 ... when we talk about a JSON serialization of a TD; do we have to worry about e.g. string length? 14:08:08 q+ 14:08:29 ml: this may be especially appropriate for human-readable descriptions 14:09:14 ml: think there should be a way to indicate maximum length in the TD itself 14:09:27 ege: this is also fairly easy to check with the validator 14:09:52 ca: so you are talking about strings in the TD itself? 14:09:56 q++ cris 14:10:00 ml: but also for payloads 14:10:03 q- + 14:10:05 q- cris 14:10:18 ca: in the code we also have this in the links 14:10:50 ... so might be a valid TD, but may be rejected by an implementation 14:10:59 q? 14:11:02 ack m 14:12:18 mm: so multiple use cases here 14:13:27 ... limiting memory cost of consumer; human-readable display, etc. 14:13:43 ml: mixing things; TD strings vs. payloads 14:14:15 ege: we do have a way to specify this 14:14:18 q+ 14:14:58 ege: regarding second part, of uri too long, could be cases where the consumer needs to construct the uri 14:15:33 ... for example, variables in template, queries, base... 14:16:15 mm: another tricky issue is proxies 14:16:36 ... which might need to modify URLs 14:16:42 topic: precision term 14:16:53 ... wanted to add precision term 14:17:17 s/... wanted/ege: wanted/ 14:17:42 ege: we need to be careful about these words, can be misinterpreted 14:17:45 i|wanted|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1001 Issue 1001 - Add "precision" to data schema| 14:18:24 s/ege: wanted/ml: wanted/ 14:18:27 ml: precision, etc. is good practice to include precision etc. so it can be taken into account 14:18:48 ... range into which this value maps; precision of 5% is maximum 14:20:24 q+ 14:20:45 ack m 14:20:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-ssn/#SSNSYSTEMAccuracy ssn-system:Accuracy 14:20:57 mm: we could just use SSN and the annotations from there 14:21:29 ack k 14:21:53 kaz: @@ 14:22:22 ege: we could also explain that "multipleOf" could be used for resolution; then we could recommend that SSN be used for accuracy and precision 14:23:11 s/I'd agree McCool's position and am OK with using SSN here, but we should make sure if all the basic terms are defined based on SSN (or some other possible definition) consistently./ 14:24:01 i|we could|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-ssn/#SSNSYSTEMPrecision ssn-system:Precision| 14:24:19 q? 14:24:23 q+ 14:25:01 ege: would it be ok to add a note regarding multipleOf + use of SSN for precision and accuracy 14:25:05 cris has joined #wot-td 14:25:10 +1 14:25:39 kaz: ok with depending on SSN, but should make sure definitions are consistency 14:26:43 mm: I think an example would be great that includes all three terms... 14:27:00 ... and perhaps explains them, based on the SSN definitions :) 14:28:33 s/consistency/consistent/ 14:28:39 ege: ok, will do a pr for the note 14:29:01 mm: and then an issue to create an example, cited from the doc, would be helpful for followup 14:29:10 ege: you will volunteer to do an example? 14:29:12 rrsagent, make log public 14:29:12 mm: ok 14:29:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:29:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:30:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:30:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:31:17 topic: security on links 14:31:24 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 14:31:48 issue 1149 14:31:48 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 14:32:30 s|issue 1149|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1149 Issue 1149 - SecuritySchemas and Links| 14:32:53 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#thing 5.3.1.1 Thing 14:33:38 mm: think that if we let top-level security apply to links, then we need a security field 14:33:46 ... in Links 14:34:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:34:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:34:18 ege: but if top-level security def applys to Links, would be a compatibility problem 14:34:38 s/Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.// 14:34:40 s/Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.// 14:34:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:34:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:35:16 q+ 14:35:58 q- 14:36:11 mm: we could also add a top-level "linkSecurity" field to define the defaults for Links 14:36:19 ... but not critical 14:36:37 s/issue 1153// 14:36:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:36:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:37:52 dape: may be a little verbose to put in each one 14:37:58 mm: true, but fully functional 14:38:37 q? 14:38:43 ack d 14:38:59 mm: also, note that technically having a securityScheme object as a default value, with no name, it technically weird 14:39:17 ... it means we will have an anonymous default object, complicating canonicalization, etc. 14:40:42 mm: I think also technically we are looking at "mandatory, with a default value" 14:42:34 ege: to summarize what we decided to add "security" field to Links, with default value of a "nosec" scheme 14:43:45 mm: and to be clear, won't do the "linkSecurity" think 14:43:53 s/think/thing/ 14:45:14 mm: need to clarify use case first 14:45:26 ... eg large number of links all with the same security 14:46:12 ... although it would make things more consistent and clearer 14:47:44 topic: reordering security example 14:47:55 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1141 Issue 1141 - Rearranging examples for security in section 6.3.4 14:48:28 +1 for reordering 14:48:32 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#security-serialization-json 6.3.4 securityDefinitions and security 14:48:41 ege: would be good to have a simple api key example earlier, and combo later, for instance 14:49:37 mm: please just do a PR and poke me for a review; want to make sure "flow" and "task orientation" is in the results 14:49:42 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1075 14:49:47 topic: proxies 14:51:03 mm: so the problem is there is more than one way to do this 14:51:21 s/topic: proxies// 14:51:27 i/github/topic: proxies/ 14:51:32 s/https/-> https/ 14:51:47 ... I think that even if there is a link 14:51:58 s|1075|1075 Issue 1075 - The "proxy-to" relation type overlaps "proxy" in security schemes| 14:52:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:52:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:52:44 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#link 5.3.4.1 Link 14:52:48 mm: maybe they are different things... proxy-to is for a "shadow", proxies in security schemes are for "tunnels" 14:54:08 ... so can leave this rel type, but need to add an explanatory paragraph to say when to use which 14:56:03 ege: a pair of examples comparing this would be useful 14:56:23 mm: could also add some explanatory text to either link or security sections, or both 14:58:19 topic: signatures and canonical form 14:58:33 mm: deferred while waiting for security review 14:58:46 ... also small fixes to canonicalization 14:58:59 topic: social media icons in README 14:59:21 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1196 PR 1196 - Add social media icons to Readme 14:59:44 q+ 15:00:29 ack k 15:00:56 kaz: for MD files, I'd suggest we simply use the default styles 15:01:04 ... meaning left-aligned 15:01:08 kaz: probably want to avoid extra HTML markup, which means using default, which is left-aligned 15:01:19 s/... meaning left-aligned// 15:01:23 s/kaz: for MD files, I'd suggest we simply use the default styles// 15:01:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:01:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:01:35 ack k 15:03:53 ege: ok, let's make it left aligned 15:04:07 ca: should we add the wot logo? 15:04:40 mm: let's discuss in marketing, but not do it right now, goes beyond the resolution 15:06:43 mm: anyway, I will go and make the changes to all the other repos 15:06:53 scribenick: kaz 15:07:29 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1087 15:07:40 i/github/topic: Issue 108/ 15:07:49 i/https/-> https/ 15:12:56 kaz: do you want to have a link going back to TD ver. 1.0 15:13:25 s/1.0/1.0?/ 15:13:28 ege: yes 15:13:45 kaz: adding that URL would be confusing 15:14:07 ... if people really want to refer to older specs, they can visit /TR 15:14:19 -> https://www.w3.org/TR /TR area 15:14:44 kaz: note that each spec has a link to the /TR area within the status section 15:14:47 ege: ah, ok 15:14:54 ... (close the issue) 15:14:57 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1084 15:15:15 i/github/topic: Issue 1084/ 15:15:22 s/https/-> https/ 15:15:32 https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/605 15:15:45 s/1084/1084 Issue 1084 - observeallproperties and unobserveallproperties clarification/ 15:15:53 s/https/-> https/ 15:15:58 s/605/605 related PR 605/ 15:16:55 ek: any problem to close the issue 1084? 15:17:00 (none) 15:17:11 s/ege:/ek:/ 15:17:18 s/ege:/ek:/g 15:17:35 dp: same happening to other op-related issues? 15:17:57 s/dp: same happening to other op-related issues?// 15:18:17 topic: Issue 349 15:18:37 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/349 Issue 349 - Differnt colors for markup 15:19:02 ek: would suggest we close this issue 15:19:43 (no objections; closed) 15:20:06 topic: Issue 1178 15:20:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1178 Issue 1178 - Invalid TD in example 15:20:36 ek: would fix it 15:20:58 kaz: please go ahead and fix it :) 15:21:11 ek: will create a PR 15:21:50 topic: Issue 1180 15:22:15 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1180 Issue 1180 - Default value for observable 15:23:11 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-default-values 5.4 Default Value Definitions 15:24:05 mk: absence of observable for canonicalization 15:24:17 ... this should be included 15:25:45 kaz: 5.4 is kind of cross referencing for default value definitions within the TD spec. right? 15:25:47 ek: right 15:26:43 https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/WD-wot-thing-description11-20201124/#x5-4-default-value-definitions 15:27:21 https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/#x5-4-default-value-definitions 15:28:02 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/#sec-default-values 5.4 from the June WD doesn't have that problem 15:28:28 i/https/ek: btw, it seems the FPWD of TD 1.1 has a problem with section 5.4 title... 15:28:46 kaz: the latest WD doesn't have that problem, so don't worry 15:28:58 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1189 15:29:12 i/https/topic: Issue 1189/ 15:29:19 s/https/-> https/ 15:29:39 s/1189/1189 Issue 1189 - Why is contentType optional on AdditionalResponse?/ 15:30:10 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#additionalexpectedresponse 5.3.4.4 AdditionalExpectedResponse 15:30:49 ek: we still don't have an example 15:33:07 ... default value for contentType inside AdditionalResponse to be added 15:34:19 s/Response /Responses / 15:34:34 topic: Issue 1138 15:35:00 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1138 Issue 1138 - Making the uriVariables recommendation paragraph an editor's note 15:35:06 ek: difficult to find 15:36:07 ... want to change he text right below the Example 30 to be an Editor's Note 15:36:25 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#example-30 Example 30 15:43:58 kaz: in any case, we should be clear and consistent with the usage of the style (of an Editor's Note) 15:44:01 ek: ok 15:44:23 topic: Issue 1174 15:44:45 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1174 Issue 1174 - Rename / retitle op for Things 15:44:55 ek: maybe we need more people for this issue... 15:46:16 ... don't know how to handle this 15:46:49 ... maybe this should be handled by Discovery 15:47:38 kaz: not sure about the use case either 15:48:12 ... if we really need to let somebody change the title, we need to check the credential to do so as well 15:48:20 dp: not sure about the need either 15:48:35 ek: maybe for directory services 15:49:08 dp: possible use case for Scripting API 15:49:48 ... but if someone can change the title, the whole TD need to be reloaded 15:50:00 ... not really sure how to handle it 15:50:47 kaz: I also think we need some more input from people, e.g., Sebastian, McCool and Lagally 15:50:56 ... maybe we need to defer this to the next version 15:53:35 ... selling a device to another person might be a possible use case, though 15:53:55 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1114 15:54:06 i/1114/topic: Issue 1114/ 15:54:13 s/https/-> https/ 15:54:34 s/1114/1114 Issue 1114 - format is listed under DataSchema/ 15:55:54 -> http://json-schema.org/understanding-json-schema/ Understanding JSON Schema 15:57:36 -> https://json-schema.org/draft/2020-12/json-schema-validation.html JSON Schema Validation 15:59:59 ek: (adds comments and closes the issue) 16:00:03 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1114#issuecomment-884302879 Ege's comments 16:00:08 topic: AOB 16:00:11 ek: aob? 16:00:13 (none) 16:00:16 [adjourned] 16:00:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:00:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 17:04:53 Zakim has left #wot-td 17:55:00 zkis has joined #wot-td 18:18:01 zkis has joined #wot-td