14:43:41 RRSAgent has joined #md-odrl-profile 14:43:41 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-irc 14:43:43 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:43:44 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jo_ 14:44:13 Meeting: Market Data Rights Automation Teleconference 14:44:22 chair: jo 14:44:31 regrets: renato 14:44:38 scribe: jo 14:59:45 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:00:36 present+ flora_golshan, markb, adam, ben 15:01:37 scribenick: jo_ 15:04:44 regrets+ laura, tricia 15:04:58 present+ caspar 15:05:09 present+ michelle 15:05:15 present+ ben 15:05:21 Topic: Admin 15:06:06 jo: meeting on FESE terms, outstanding 15:06:25 ... ben to draft versioning text 15:06:48 ben: started that, but had another thought 15:07:08 jo: caspar to look at deprecation policy of ISO terms 15:07:21 caspar: started but on holiday 15:07:29 Adam_ has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:07:37 jo: ben to put prefixes in 15:07:43 ben: they are going in will show 15:08:36 jo: caspar to verify that M49 codes can be represented with a URN 15:08:45 ... will come back to next 15:09:03 RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last meeting 15:09:26 Topic: Ting approach 15:09:49 ben: primarily relates to implementations, publicly as much as possible so we can get interoperability data 15:10:00 ... aware of pieces of work starting or in train 15:10:13 ... would likepeople to write this up as part of the community group 15:10:35 s/likepeople/like people/ 15:10:51 ... we are looking at enforcement through cloud ata exchanges 15:11:04 .. will refer to adam later 15:11:13 adam: what does this look like to you? 15:11:41 ben: provider is aware of permissions customers already have, so they don't need to re-paper all over again 15:12:00 s/cloud ata/cloud data/ 15:12:37 adam: ADX is a lot of historical, so the policies are not all that robust 15:12:48 ... also would be good for someone to pull real-time data 15:13:00 ben: small step by small step, in scope, not straight away 15:13:43 ... so it's important that we can reference and write them up and so publish the interoperability tests through community group 15:14:01 markb: how much does this differ from the approval poc we did with Caspar 15:14:20 ... is this a request that the exchange is making to the originator? 15:14:28 Caspar_MacRae has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:14:35 ben: complimentary to what we did before 15:14:55 ... another tests is can a provider have their customer permissions 15:15:18 ... atthe other end there is a thrid poc - fine grained permissions - hit data base and get a yes or no 15:15:38 jo: useful to write this up 15:16:06 ACTION: ben to write this up 15:16:19 present_ nigel 15:16:32 present+ nigel 15:16:41 s/present_ nigel// 15:17:42 s/up/ up testing approach scenario he described 15:17:58 Topic: Derived Products 15:18:24 markL: wanted to examine this, possibly a good practical case 15:18:47 ... was thinking about "transformed through some trasnformation ..." 15:18:56 MichelleR has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:19:09 ... becomes a new asset only if is irreversable and so on 15:19:17 ... does this mean it skips the source stage 15:19:39 s/markL/mark/ 15:20:04 ... original creators may have rights that persist into this derived asset 15:20:15 ben: welcome this topic being raised 15:20:38 ... we need to get derivations right ... indices ... and want to share with customers 15:20:49 ... looked at re-writing that para ... 15:21:00 (shares current version) 15:21:50 ben: news text adds includes saying that it creates a new Source 15:22:24 ... which can then be packaged in many ways for different customers 15:22:45 mark: so how to the original constraints and obligations flow through? 15:23:13 ben: are we comfortable with creating a new source 15:23:41 caspar: need to think about the "non-substitutive" 15:23:50 ben: would be the same asset then 15:23:57 (general agreement) 15:24:16 ben: you never get the one without the other, 15:24:53 ... in fact there is a third "reverse engineer" but that's entailed in irreversible 15:25:19 flora: different sources treat raw data differently 15:25:49 ... fixed income you are putting data though your own methodology, combined with others etc. 15:26:07 ... then it's yours. 15:27:06 ... if you are going to argue that the resulting data is yours then that's arguable, and different arguable as to 15:27:24 ... whether its monetisable or non-monetisable 15:27:52 ben: IP owner can be specified can be different for revised data 15:28:14 ... they still want to be able to control what you do with it, even if it's your own IP 15:30:11 (ben shows example) 15:30:37 ben: translation of the Deutsche Boerse non display 15:30:51 ... allows you to generate indices but then controls what you can do 15:31:12 ... and says they can only be used for benchmarking purposes 15:32:17 ... any new output has to be controlled by V1 ... 15:32:32 (continues to look at the example) 15:33:44 nigel: possible problem, if you say you are creaating a source when you derive data 15:33:55 ... but a source is not encumbered by a policy 15:34:43 ben: it's really just an abstraction that allows you to create Assets - and they are all controlled 15:35:42 michelle: found one the other day - concept of 2nd generation product 15:35:57 ben: interesting, think that this is an implementation fo that idea 15:36:05 ... would be good to get the reference 15:37:58 adam: how does this execute 15:38:23 ... someone takes the data ... makes a derivation ... how is the system supposed to know 15:38:31 ... that there is a new license to apply 15:38:51 ben: good question, we'd only really know once we try 15:39:13 (gives example, relating to data lineage) 15:40:57 (adam expresses concern as to whether this can be automated) 15:41:08 (ben says it's all about a subsumption check) 15:41:59 Mark: this is all about two parties, how does it work with a third party 15:42:20 ben: yes, it is a valid use case ... 15:42:40 (gives example) 15:43:24 ben: you only need to check the policy of your supplier, since this has to be compliant with their supplier, down the value chain 15:45:06 ben: CDMC and maybe FINOS for APIs will be an importnat next step 15:45:21 s/importnat/important/ 15:45:47 (discussion about applicability with CDMC) 15:46:58 adam: discussed the need to reference policies, for example, calling policy store API 15:47:24 ... concerned about the various layers of consortium activities 15:47:44 ben: work has started in defining some of those APIs 15:48:06 ... need to make them public, and we're generating more of the APIs 15:49:44 action: ben to document the examples he stepped us through on this call 15:51:18 RESOLUTION: put the question of relationship with CDMC and FINOS into the parking lot for now 15:51:33 Topic: Update on standard 15:53:08 ben: putting namespaces into standard 15:53:15 ... also adding references 15:53:41 ... also regulations 15:55:39 ... and versioning, started writing referencing Caspar's and Nigel's work on standards 15:56:26 ... but how do you manage a living document against needing to reference standard versions 15:56:37 ... climate scientists have a similar problem 15:57:07 ... never change a definition of a term, always the same, but can be deprecated 15:57:15 ... they version the term 15:57:55 ... suggest that we never allow a breaking change to occur 15:58:20 ... if a processor comes across a version of a term more modern then it can fail grqacefully 15:58:33 s/grqacefully/gracefully/ 15:59:22 (discusses prohibitions) 15:59:43 ben: so we can minimise impact of new terms, and may have greater felxibility 16:00:01 s/felxibility/flexibility/ 16:00:33 ACTION: ben to call a discussion on this idea re versioned terms 16:00:55 AOB: 16:01:05 s/AOB:/Topic: AOB 16:01:11 (meeting closed) 16:01:51 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:04:29 scribeoptions: -nodraft -oldstyle 16:04:32 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:10:52 s/will come back to next/will come back to next meeting/ 16:11:57 s/Ting approach/Testing approach/ 16:12:58 s/thrid poc/third poc/ 16:14:10 s/different for revised/different for derived/ 16:16:02 rrsagent, make minutes 16:16:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:59:53 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 17:36:40 Zakim has left #md-odrl-profile 18:01:50 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 18:07:34 rrsagent, thank you 18:07:34 I'm logging. I don't understand 'thank you', jo_. Try /msg RRSAgent help 18:07:48 rrsagent, goodbye 18:07:48 I'm logging. I don't understand 'goodbye', jo_. Try /msg RRSAgent help 18:08:01 rrsagent, bye 18:08:01 I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-actions.rdf : 18:08:01 ACTION: ben to write this up [1] 18:08:01 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-irc#T15-16-06 18:08:01 ACTION: ben to document the examples he stepped us through on this call [2] 18:08:01 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-irc#T15-49-44 18:08:01 ACTION: ben to call a discussion on this idea re versioned terms [3] 18:08:01 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/07/21-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-00-33