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14:02:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:02:27 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
14:02:31 <jeanne> agenda?
14:02:34 <Lauriat> agenda?
14:02:35 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #silver
14:02:37 <jenniferS> present+
14:02:38 <sajkaj> present+
14:02:39 <Lauriat> Present+
14:02:40 <jeanne> present+
14:02:42 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
14:02:44 <Jemma> present+
14:02:48 <jeanne> chairs: Shawn, jeanne
14:02:50 <Rachael> present+
14:02:58 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:02:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/16-silver-minutes.html jeanne
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14:03:13 <mgarrish> present+
14:03:47 <PeterKorn> I'm only partly here until my coffee finishes brewing
14:03:54 <Makoto> present+
14:04:07 <sarahhorton> sarahhorton has joined #silver
14:04:10 <sajkaj> zakim, take up item 1
14:04:10 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- August draft prep -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:04:22 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #silver
14:04:26 <sarahhorton> present+
14:04:29 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Project_Plan_for_Q3_Working_Draft
14:04:30 <Francis_Storr> present+
14:04:49 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #silver
14:05:07 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks SH for Errors update ...
14:05:16 <Wilco> present+
14:05:31 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Have a PR approved by Michael, now need Facilitator approval and merge
14:05:46 <sajkaj> jeanne: Believe we need AGWG approval before we merge
14:05:53 <sajkaj> jeanne: That's the agreed process
14:06:09 <sajkaj> jeanne: Michael is working up a process doc for us
14:06:34 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
14:06:34 <sajkaj> jeanne: And you're on track to present on 27th? Also, this is just methods; says "scoring to be determined"
14:07:05 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Yes, also responded to several comments received
14:07:30 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Methods with some fixes from before; and two new methods
14:07:46 <sajkaj> jeanne: WBS goes 22nd ...
14:08:06 <sajkaj> Rachael: Can be generic WBS unless specific feedback wanted
14:08:52 <sajkaj> sajkaj: Shows only text design
14:09:12 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: Yes, so still a Michael task
14:09:37 <sajkaj> Jemma: Have minor typo edits etc so will be updating PR
14:09:52 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: I'll let him know it needs to be up by the 22nd
14:10:13 <Jemma> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag3-error-prevention/results
14:10:32 <sajkaj> jeanne: Suggest the fewer questions the more succinctly we can present this as already discussed and reviewed
14:10:53 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: asks about how to do walk through
14:11:09 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: AGWG hasn't seen the two new methods, but it's the same outcomes
14:11:32 <sajkaj> Rachael: maybe a single question--the conversation should still come up
14:12:12 <sajkaj> jeanne: another guideline for august?
14:12:19 <sajkaj> sarahhorton: another in dev, but not by august
14:12:30 <PeterKorn> Coffee acquired!
14:12:43 <PeterKorn> Present+
14:12:57 <sajkaj> jeanne: Turns to Explainer ---
14:13:13 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
14:13:20 <sajkaj> jeanne: on for 3 Aug
14:13:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: So for us next Friday 23 July
14:15:49 <sajkaj> jeanne: User Gen also for 23rd here
14:16:02 <sajkaj> jeanne: New ACT for Tuesday?
14:16:05 <sajkaj> Wilco: yes
14:17:05 <sajkaj> Francis_Storr: Will endeavor to get my ACT part in today
14:18:04 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks Makoto about AGWG on 22nd ...
14:18:10 <sajkaj> makoto want to update
14:18:33 <sajkaj> Makoto: have weekly Tuesday mtg
14:18:46 <sajkaj> Makoto: have 9 public comments from FPWD
14:18:49 <Makoto> https://github.com/w3c/silver/labels/Subgroup%3A%20Alt%20Text
14:19:05 <sajkaj> Makoto: We've finished drafting responses
14:19:22 <sajkaj> Makoto: draft responses on github
14:19:39 <sajkaj> Makoto: now have 3 more methods
14:20:13 <PeterKorn> q+
14:20:17 <sajkaj> Makoto: but still reviewing to make sure we didn't miss something
14:20:30 <sajkaj> Makoto: sufficient technique review
14:20:54 <sajkaj> Makoto: comparing against html spec, eo tutorials
14:21:03 <sajkaj> Makoto: believe a few more weeks
14:21:56 <sajkaj> jeanne: asks whether new methods postponed beyond tuesday?
14:22:38 <sajkaj> Makoto: we can show them noting we're still working to clean them up
14:22:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: good, good to get feedback
14:23:14 <sajkaj> jeanne: Suggests returning Alt for the 10th of Aug
14:23:53 <Lauriat> ack PeterKorn
14:24:06 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Notes we're trying to dev example of User Generated for alt
14:24:27 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: could we phps have a joint mtg about how we work that in?
14:24:51 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: would be good for AGWG to have seen without User Gen so that it's something new on the 3rd
14:25:18 <sajkaj> jeanne: Yes, Alt scheduled for next Tuesday, so User Gen would be new on the 3rd
14:26:33 <PeterKorn> ack Pet
14:28:10 <jeanne> Janina: The summary of what we want to do in User Generated Content is to allow less than perfect content when ordinary people post information in social media.  We do expect owners of social media sites to show people the right way to make accessibility and prompt them.
14:29:16 <jenniferS> What about for an app like Instagram that builds an app that doesn't provide an avenue for users to add alt text?
14:29:18 <jeanne> Peter: Images on large social media sites have such volume at such a rate, that they cannot be manually addressed
14:29:33 <jenniferS> q+
14:29:36 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: volume is too high for platforms to cover and fix
14:29:56 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: believe alt is best prototype for the approach
14:30:10 <sajkaj> jeanne: will be related to atag methods
14:30:20 <Lauriat> q+ to suggest visual recognition systems as a method as well
14:30:21 <Francis_Storr> One interesting addition to the HTML spec is the concept of "ancillary images" which are "neither purely decorative nor entirely redundant with the text": https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/images.html#ancillary-images
14:30:40 <jeanne> q+ Makoto
14:30:45 <Lauriat> ack jenniferS
14:31:05 <sajkaj> jenniferS: asks about apps that don't prompt; can we say apps should?
14:31:24 <sajkaj> jenniferS: notes twitter finally added but still not ideal
14:31:39 <PeterKorn> Sorry; my audio dropped.
14:31:41 <PeterKorn> Be right back.
14:31:47 <jeanne> ack laur
14:31:47 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to suggest visual recognition systems as a method as well
14:31:48 <sajkaj> jeanne: that is the atag method; but we may want it in its own outcome
14:32:10 <PeterKorn> q+
14:32:38 <sajkaj> Lauriat: notes auto recognition systems somewhere better than XX.jpg; but not top-- so another thing to consider
14:32:56 <jeanne> ack mako
14:32:58 <sajkaj> jeanne: asks Shawn to draft ...
14:32:59 <sajkaj> Lauriat: ok
14:33:28 <sajkaj> Makoto: what about partial conformance of wcag 2.x? user gen has been exception
14:34:02 <sajkaj> Makoto: will there be difference in wcag3?
14:34:17 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: yes, but probably not today ...
14:34:28 <Lauriat> Also a user agent method, since I just remembered Chrome offers generated alt text on all platforms: https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/9311597
14:34:39 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: idea is to push to do all that is reasonably feasible should be recognized and credited
14:35:04 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: so we will say "here's what you should do"
14:35:30 <jeanne> That would be awesome to have a User Agent method as well!
14:35:55 <PeterKorn> ack Pet
14:36:30 <sajkaj> jeanne: asks whether expecting any new methods for xr captioning
14:36:39 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: not enough participation right now to finalize
14:37:16 <sajkaj> jeanne: so current focus across the board is methods and outcomes; and scoring will come later--august
14:37:30 <sajkaj> jeanne: seems we'll have substantial content for aug wd
14:37:33 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
14:37:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Subgroup check-in -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:37:55 <sajkaj> jeanne: seems we've heard from groups -- anyone else
14:38:12 <sajkaj> jenniferS: re struct content -- still getting the group organized
14:38:25 <sajkaj> jenniferS: hoping to get substantive next week
14:38:50 <sajkaj> jeanne: asks re clear words or visual contrast
14:38:53 <sajkaj> jeanne: maturity?
14:38:59 <jenniferS> Suzanne - I have a MITRE colleague that could assist with XR captioning. Jordan Higgins. How can he participate?
14:39:40 <sajkaj> jeanne: aware that maturity would like to get some of their content published in august
14:39:52 <sajkaj> jeanne: functional needs?
14:40:13 <sajkaj> jeanne: conformance arch?
14:40:22 <sajkaj> Francis_Storr: will be meeting again monday
14:41:12 <sajkaj> jeanne: notes clear words is meeting again with more coga participation
14:41:45 <PeterKorn> q+
14:41:56 <sajkaj> q+
14:42:59 <sajkaj> [discussion of new member adds]
14:44:10 <jeanne> ack Peter
14:44:20 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: re further coordination between groups
14:44:34 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: anyone looking at media guidance aside from xr?
14:44:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: unfortunately, no
14:44:55 <sajkaj> jeanne: might be good thing to ask from AGWG
14:45:17 <sajkaj> jeanne: or maybe User Generated content?
14:45:41 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: what we have from xr does not cover the usual caption -- so how to do?
14:46:27 <PeterKorn> ack Pet
14:47:29 <jeanne> q+ to ask about TPAC joint meetings
14:47:35 <jeanne> ack saj
14:48:13 <jeanne> Janina: APA is scheduling joint meetings at TPAC
14:50:09 <jeanne> Janina: Important to set agenda topics for TPAC joint meetings
14:50:36 <jeanne> ... Personalizations module should be presented to Silver
14:50:47 <jeanne> ... APA always meets with CSS
14:51:09 <jeanne> ... Media Queries 5 is an important area, Janina will get the link to the video of a presentation
14:51:11 <sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/video-examples
14:51:53 <jeanne> ... Pronunciation task force is looking at different approaches
14:53:58 <jeanne> Janina: We may want to host a breakout session
14:54:16 <jeanne> ... Content Usable is a great example of a potential breakout session
14:56:28 <sajkaj> zakim, bye
14:56:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Rachael, jenniferS, sajkaj, Lauriat, jeanne, Jemma, mgarrish, Makoto, sarahhorton, Francis_Storr, Wilco, PeterKorn, SuzanneTaylor
14:56:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #silver
14:56:33 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/16-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
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