IRC log of a11yfeat on 2021-07-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #a11yfeat
14:53:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-irc
14:53:52 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:53:53 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), yatil
14:54:10 [yatil]
meeting: Accessibility Features Community Group #a11yfeat
14:54:21 [yatil]
chair: yatil
14:54:29 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil
14:54:49 [yatil]
agenda?
14:55:05 [yatil]
clear agenda
14:57:28 [marcus]
marcus has joined #a11yfeat
14:57:33 [yatil]
agenda+ Reminder to fill out time survey at https://forms.gle/8Q3y6CBMDHpPdfrw7
14:57:33 [yatil]
agenda+ A11y features list, assign tasks
14:57:33 [yatil]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dLgBtrMinu-GtckijkyHXbB0E_zQK3Xk0bv7gElLCqM/edit#
14:57:33 [yatil]
agenda+ A11y features survey, assign tasks
14:57:33 [yatil]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gekZ5y_D13g3TnhdB-sCafim8yjVGbObtCDbM7cisTU/edit?usp=sharing
14:57:34 [yatil]
agenda+ A11y features website, update https://a11yfeat.com/
14:57:34 [yatil]
agenda+ Color contrast plugin demo https://fixa11y.com/
14:58:31 [yatil]
agenda+ Any Closing Comments?
14:58:34 [yatil]
agenda?
14:58:59 [Todd]
Todd has joined #a11yfeat
14:59:08 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil
15:00:48 [Wilco]
Wilco has joined #a11yfeat
15:02:37 [Bee_Bube]
Bee_Bube has joined #a11yfeat
15:03:03 [jules]
jules has joined #a11yfeat
15:03:13 [yatil]
agenda?
15:03:26 [hdv]
present+
15:03:28 [Wilco]
present+
15:03:31 [Todd]
present+
15:03:32 [yatil]
present+
15:03:33 [Bee_Bube]
present+
15:03:35 [marcus]
presemtnt+
15:03:41 [jules]
present+
15:03:56 [marcus]
present+
15:03:58 [kilianvalkhof]
kilianvalkhof has joined #a11yfeat
15:04:25 [Wilco]
scribe: Wilco
15:04:35 [hdv]
RRSAgent, draft minutes please
15:04:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html hdv
15:04:51 [marcus]
hidde: hope the 2nd time worked
15:05:01 [Wilco]
Eric: ...explains scribing
15:05:15 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:05:15 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Reminder to fill out time survey at https://forms.gle/8Q3y6CBMDHpPdfrw7 -- taken up [from yatil]
15:05:35 [Wilco]
Eric: We have a survey to find a regular meeting time.
15:06:02 [Wilco]
... We want to meet every other week. Everyone, please fill out the survey.
15:06:29 [Wilco]
Wilco: Suggest we take a look at the times
15:06:52 [Wilco]
Eric: I will figure it out and let everyone know.
15:07:08 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:07:08 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, yatil
15:07:13 [yatil]
q?
15:07:28 [yatil]
q- marcus
15:07:35 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:07:35 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- A11y features list, assign tasks -- taken up [from yatil]
15:07:47 [yatil]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dLgBtrMinu-GtckijkyHXbB0E_zQK3Xk0bv7gElLCqM/edit#
15:08:12 [Wilco]
Eric: Last time we talked about collecting features. Marcus was quick to fill out Firefox. Wilco did a few things for Chrome.
15:08:25 [Wilco]
... I've signed up for Safari but I'm officially lazy.
15:08:44 [Wilco]
... I think we need to assign them, so we can get an overview of features already there.
15:08:51 [Wilco]
... Any takers for Edge?
15:09:12 [Wilco]
Bee: I'll take Brave
15:09:48 [Wilco]
Eric: Anyone for Windows?
15:10:17 [Wilco]
Eric: Marcus signed up for iOS
15:10:50 [Wilco]
... We may also want to look at extensions.
15:11:05 [Wilco]
q+
15:11:26 [Wilco]
Eric: Killian has signed up for Fix Contrast
15:11:44 [Todd]
q+
15:11:50 [hdv]
Wilco: for Chrome I included some official Chrome extensions, four of them
15:11:54 [jules]
q+
15:12:13 [hdv]
Wilco: do you want those listed separately or under Chrome?
15:12:23 [hdv]
yatil: fine to put them under Chrome as they are official
15:12:27 [yatil]
ack w
15:12:37 [Wilco]
Todd: I'll take up collecting features for Windows
15:13:06 [Wilco]
q?
15:13:11 [Wilco]
ack todd
15:13:26 [yatil]
ack j
15:13:46 [Wilco]
Jules: Can others add features for Firefox
15:13:58 [Wilco]
Eric: Yes, if you think something's missing, feel free to add it
15:14:30 [Wilco]
Jules: I often use outline in Firefox, is that a feature built into Firefox?
15:14:40 [Wilco]
Eric: Not sure which feature you mean.
15:15:07 [Wilco]
Jules: If you got to settings in Firefox, you get a warning not to change it.
15:15:20 [Wilco]
Eric: If you can hack Firefox in that way, that's something we want to highlight.
15:15:50 [Wilco]
Marcus: A setting behind a flag, it's hidden and hacky, but it is a feature
15:15:57 [Wilco]
Eric: As much as you find, put it in.
15:16:54 [hdv]
Wilco: I started testing these things and noticed a quirk in high contrast mode, limitations of that feature. It turns out what that tool does it makes the dark colours darker and the light colours lighter… which sometimes causes it to decrease the contrast… is that something we'd like to capture in some way?
15:17:36 [hdv]
yatil: yes would be useful to add as comments
15:17:45 [hdv]
Wilco: in the Google Doc?
15:17:50 [hdv]
yatil: yes seems fine
15:18:06 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:18:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- A11y features survey, assign tasks -- taken up [from yatil]
15:18:20 [yatil]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gekZ5y_D13g3TnhdB-sCafim8yjVGbObtCDbM7cisTU/edit?usp=sharing
15:18:59 [Wilco]
Eric: We haven't done anything on the survey yet. We wanted to formulate questions to bring in front of users, asking what features they need or what features they used.
15:19:27 [kilianvalkhof]
+q
15:19:30 [Wilco]
... Should we spend some time brainstorming questions?
15:19:41 [yatil]
ack kilianvalkhof
15:19:52 [Wilco]
Kilian: What kind of questions are we looking for?
15:20:23 [Wilco]
Eric: Relatively open questions, things like what features in your browser do you use. Things like that.
15:20:59 [marcus]
q+
15:21:05 [Wilco]
... We might have multiple choice of what feature they use, and maybe some features of what else we use
15:21:12 [yatil]
ack m
15:21:37 [Wilco]
Marcus: Is the intention that we pose questions like "are you aware that you can zoom"? Or is that too meta.
15:22:12 [Wilco]
Eric: Need to discuss if this is for people who already use accessibility features.
15:22:25 [Wilco]
Kilian: I think we'll primarily reach people already using a11y features.
15:22:47 [Wilco]
Bee: I know people who use accessibility features, but don't know that they are.
15:23:46 [Wilco]
Eric: Maybe we could frame it like "ease of use" features? Do we want to give them a list of features, or a free-form text field.
15:23:54 [Wilco]
Bee: Might be useful to give categories.
15:24:15 [Wilco]
... Things related to browser, thing related to the device.
15:24:53 [Wilco]
Kilian: Caution against casting too wide a net. We have limited reach. The people that will answer this survey are people in our wider network.
15:25:15 [Wilco]
... It seems we should focus more on quantitative data as to what features they use. Based on that we can do another survey that is wider cast.
15:26:06 [Wilco]
Eric: We could make a list of features we've collected, and then a free form field.
15:26:28 [Wilco]
... As well as let user fill what they need, for something there isn't a feature for yet.
15:26:42 [Wilco]
... That keeps it short, but we'd use browser features first.
15:27:21 [Wilco]
... I can send out this survey to a list at Knowbility. They have a list of people with various disabilities.
15:27:28 [Bee_Bube]
+q
15:28:14 [Wilco]
q+
15:28:35 [Wilco]
Eric: Kilian is writing in the document.
15:28:42 [Todd]
q+
15:29:05 [Wilco]
Bee: Do we want to only target English speakers?
15:29:26 [Wilco]
Eric: I think so, if not we'd have to get translators.
15:29:36 [yatil]
ack Bee_Bube
15:29:39 [yatil]
ack Wilco
15:30:26 [kilianvalkhof]
+q
15:30:50 [Wilco]
Wilco: Could we suggest some features users might want, that don't yet exist, and then ask them if they'd want to use them.
15:31:13 [Wilco]
Eric: It might be good, we'd have to think about what order we present them.
15:31:29 [Wilco]
... I wonder if this isn't too early to do.
15:31:34 [yatil]
ack Todd
15:31:36 [Wilco]
... Feel free to come up with a list.
15:31:55 [Wilco]
Todd: Do we want to add to the document which OS people are using?
15:32:07 [Wilco]
Eric: We could do that.
15:32:09 [Wilco]
q+
15:32:39 [Wilco]
Todd: If we have people that use Linux for example, we'd want to include them as well
15:32:44 [yatil]
ack kilianvalkhof
15:33:25 [Todd]
+1 to Killian's point
15:33:32 [Wilco]
Kilian: We should be cautious with suggestions, this will skew the data. People will say they'll want to have something they wouldn't actually use.
15:34:01 [yatil]
ack Wilco
15:34:24 [hdv]
Wilco: do we really need to know browser and operating systems? these statistics are already available elsewhere
15:34:31 [Wilco]
Wilco: Do we need to know browser / OS? What are we hoping to learn from that?
15:34:37 [kilianvalkhof]
+q
15:34:55 [Wilco]
Eric: If they choose a browser / OS because of the accessibility features, we may want to know that.
15:35:07 [yatil]
ack kilianvalkhof
15:36:39 [Wilco]
Kilian: It will allow us to say something about discoverability of features, and their relative use between browsers.
15:37:06 [yatil]
agenda?
15:37:37 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:37:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- A11y features website, update https://a11yfeat.com/ -- taken up [from yatil]
15:38:00 [Wilco]
Eric: I just wanted to highlight the website that Hidde built.
15:38:42 [Wilco]
... We put up the minutes on it, we'll put the meeting time on it, so people can find us and participate.
15:39:00 [hdv]
(repo if you want to contribute https://github.com/a11yfeat/a11yfeat.github.io/)
15:39:36 [Wilco]
Wilco: Should we include the browser / OS features on there?
15:39:48 [Wilco]
Eric: Yeah, we should.
15:40:02 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:40:02 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Color contrast plugin demo https://fixa11y.com/ -- taken up [from yatil]
15:41:35 [Wilco]
Kilian: ... demos fix contrast plugin.
15:45:21 [jules]
q+
15:47:27 [marcus]
q+
15:47:42 [marcus]
q-
15:48:06 [yatil]
ack jules
15:48:32 [Wilco]
q+
15:49:44 [yatil]
ack Wilco
15:50:36 [yatil]
Wilco: What about the performance/challenges in implementation?
15:53:21 [Wilco]
Kilian: Browsers could do this on their render pass. It would be much more performant than on an extension.
15:54:51 [Wilco]
Wilco: If we have good technologies like this, do we want to drive this in a direction where developers don't have to worry about this?
15:55:35 [Wilco]
Eric: I think it would be good to talk about that. While I want these features, especially for people who's need exceeds WCAG.
15:56:12 [Wilco]
... We should consider that as an agenda item for next meeting.
15:56:15 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:56:15 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Any Closing Comments? -- taken up [from yatil]
16:00:25 [Wilco]
zakim, end meeting
16:00:25 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been hdv, Wilco, Todd, yatil, Bee_Bube, jules, marcus
16:00:28 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html Zakim
16:00:30 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Wilco; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:00:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #a11yfeat
16:05:02 [Todd]
Todd has left #a11yfeat
16:05:19 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil
16:05:59 [yatil]
s/presemtnt+/
16:06:11 [yatil]
s/hidde: hope the 2nd time worked/
16:06:14 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil
16:07:36 [yatil]
<no closing comments>
16:07:38 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil
16:20:10 [yatil]
Next meeting in about 2 weeks, Eric will make a suggestion from the survey.
16:20:12 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:20:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/15-a11yfeat-minutes.html yatil