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12:03:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:03:13 <trackbot> Date: 08 July 2021
12:03:18 <jasonjgw> present+
12:03:19 <janina> present+
12:03:21 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #apa
12:03:21 <Leticia> present+
12:03:23 <janina> scribe: janina
12:03:24 <becky> present+
12:03:26 <CarlosD> present+
12:03:29 <shadi> present+
12:03:36 <janina> Meeting: Ad Hoc What Next in A11y
12:03:57 <janina> Date: 08 Jul 2021
12:04:02 <janina> Chair: Shadi
12:04:33 <Judy> Judy has joined #apa
12:04:39 <Judy> present+
12:05:14 <janina> shadi: Project called WAI-Coop funded from E.U.
12:05:17 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/
12:05:28 <janina> shadi: Support R&D in a11y
12:05:46 <janina> shadi: implementation of a11y directive in E.U.
12:06:08 <janina> shadi: Noting that a11y is not static
12:06:58 <janina> shadi: making sure we can support tech that emerges
12:07:36 <janina> shadi: providing resources to communities of interest
12:07:48 <janina> shadi: Being carried out by U. of Lisbon
12:08:11 <janina> shadi: That's our background -- we'll go around and introduce ourselves
12:09:03 <janina> shadi: described deliverables in such a way as could be completed in coordination with W3C/WAI APA and RQTF if useful and meet priorities/requirements
12:09:27 <janina> shadi: Symposia might be included if useful
12:09:47 <janina> shadi: So, today is to get to know each other, the context, and what might be possible and useful
12:10:00 <janina> [intros\
12:16:45 <janina> shadi: Looking now to deliverables ... two main ...
12:17:11 <janina> shadi: 1.)Advancements in R&D: To hold symposia
12:17:19 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/rdsymposia
12:17:38 <janina> shadi: You may recall in the WAI past ...
12:18:38 <janina> shadi: e.g. metrics, mobile, text customization for readability, easo to read on web ....
12:18:51 <janina> shadi: user modeling, way finding, ...
12:19:22 <janina> shadi: Now committed for 3 such symposia from 2021-2023
12:19:40 <janina> shadi: learned to plan 3 in parallel
12:19:48 <janina> s/3/for 3/
12:20:01 <janina> shadi: Phps more lightweight?
12:20:39 <janina> shadi: Could include U. Lisbon doing pre workshop research deep dive; or post symposia r&d ...
12:21:36 <janina> shadi: 2.) twice a year roundtable discussions open to the community
12:22:04 <janina> shadi: goal to get wider participation
12:22:40 <janina> shadi: idea here is to stay high level -- more approachable; e.g. scaling
12:23:04 <janina> shadi: to be more practical and imm usable
12:23:39 <janina> shadi: e.g. how reliable is AI captioning and how reliable might we expect it to be in 5 years?
12:24:06 <janina> shadi: Could start as round table and become a more focussed r&d
12:24:22 <janina> shadi: what would it mean if we thought not 5 but 10?
12:25:51 <janina> Judy: q: how meeting open meetings per year?
12:25:54 <janina> shadi: 2 per year
12:26:33 <janina> shadi: only 4 left to go
12:27:25 <janina> shadi: Asks Carlos to report on collected topics ... and how to make it more community driven
12:28:29 <janina> CarlosD: noted gap between r&d and what is actually implemented
12:28:45 <janina> CarlosD: Looked at what's not connecting
12:28:52 <janina> CarlosD: did litt review
12:29:24 <janina> CarlosD: incl hci as well as a11y; collected keywords
12:29:48 <janina> CarlosD: lots of data
12:30:17 <janina> CarlosD: XR seems to bubble to the top last 3 years
12:30:31 <janina> CarlosD: haptics, nav, tracking ...
12:30:42 <janina> CarlosD: ai and ml also ranked high
12:31:51 <janina> CarlosD: also trying to come up with platform to collect
12:32:50 <CarlosD> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uLkgAvLGFr3UApAaOtrG4guPZRo64JqK
12:33:11 <janina> shadi: very impressed by your analysis -- highlighted things in focus these days; but also what's not currently sexy
12:33:34 <janina> shadi: clearly what's not there is important
12:34:22 <Judy> q+
12:34:29 <janina> shadi: how to organize continues to be a concern; how to collect widely in a few focussed events
12:34:57 <janina> shadi: phps meta analysis might be first year focus
12:35:29 <janina> shadi: e.g. what are specific criteria for selecting
12:35:32 <Judy> q+ to speak to this point of framing discussions, rather than granular mini-topics, to start
12:35:43 <janina> shadi: short term, long term; but also impact
12:36:06 <janina> shadi: to setup for other researchers as well
12:36:30 <janina> ack ju
12:36:30 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to speak to this point of framing discussions, rather than granular mini-topics, to start
12:36:36 <janina> Judy: q+
12:37:19 <janina> given the high number of potential topics and the limited symposia opportunities; concerned to position discussion for most impact
12:38:04 <janina> Judy: would prefer to set this work at a framing level
12:38:38 <janina> Judy: concerned we're not doing enough to use available tooling like AI for a11y
12:38:57 <janina> Judy: ai for accessible content creation
12:39:04 <janina> judy ai for personalization
12:39:18 <janina> Judy: don't want to wait 3 years to talk about that
12:39:36 <janina> Judy: would like framing discussion for that
12:40:01 <janina> Judy: accessible of remote meetings -- remote everything else -- we've learned is major
12:40:11 <janina> Judy: will bew relevant for a long time
12:40:45 <shadi> q+ jason
12:41:24 <jasonjgw> Janina: notes the distinction between pure and applied research.
12:42:28 <jasonjgw> Janina: has concerns about very specific, known problems that arise in APA work (e.g., in recent Pronunciation Task force efforts).
12:43:11 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that APA is strongly grounded in more immediate needs (e.g., the recent shift toward remote meetings).
12:43:56 <jasonjgw> Jaina: Example - how to enable screen readers to consume SSML data reliably.
12:45:32 <jasonjgw> Janina notes concerns that we may be reaching the limits of accessibility APIs - the volume of accessibility-related data is growing. Example - XR - the large number of objects in an XR environment; data visualization accessibility. It may be time to envision accessibility APIs differently.
12:46:05 <Judy> q+
12:46:08 <janina> shadi: did I hear judy asking for broader freaming and janina for narrow framing?
12:46:13 <shadi> ack jason
12:46:20 <janina> jasonjgw: believe there's a nexus between jb and js
12:46:37 <janina> jasonjgw: xr realtime and nl can converge in the same application
12:46:49 <Judy> q+ to clarify where my comment lies between "pure" and "applied" research
12:47:06 <janina> jasonjgw: maybe ways to set this up to meet multiple needs
12:47:40 <janina> jasonjgw: so wondering whether we could cross topic a symposium?
12:47:50 <janina> q+
12:48:23 <janina> jasonjgw: another potential approach to look at the pipeline from content creation through user consumption
12:48:37 <janina> jasonjgw: have we looked from that 30K foot view?
12:48:54 <janina> jasonjgw: has the strategic analysis been revisited recently
12:49:36 <janina> Judy: don't think we should be pure research at all
12:49:52 <janina> Judy: there are different levels of applied, and different framings that could help us
12:49:57 <shadi> ack ju
12:49:57 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to clarify where my comment lies between "pure" and "applied" research
12:50:24 <janina> Judy: not so much how to talk about; but what's the space and what are the approaches
12:51:29 <jasonjgw> Janina: raises the concern that without sufficiently visionary approaches, we end up rearranging existing problems.
12:51:53 <jasonjgw> Janina: notes the need to create new solutions to reimagined problems.
12:52:31 <jasonjgw> Janina - Example: notes the concern that accessibility APIs are reaching their limits - a problems with far-reaching consequences.
12:53:18 <janina> MichaelC: priority for me is r&d that drives a11y guidance; so what we tell people to do
12:53:29 <janina> MichaelC: we need research on how to solve emerging problems
12:53:43 <Judy> [JB mentions to Janina that I think that the relevance of AAPIs is a highly "applied" topic, far from "pure research," so I think we're reasonably in the same arena.]
12:53:51 <janina> MichaelC: market developes approaches and we're slow to respond with duigance
12:54:23 <janina> MichaelC: always beena problem for me on how to pose a research question and get practical results back thatc can apply
12:55:03 <janina> MichaelC: clearly knowing better the theoretical knowledge will help us long term--but not sure how to factor it; knowing we needit
12:55:34 <janina> CarlosD: great opportunity to let research community know the practical problems you're facing
12:55:59 <janina> CarlosD: what are the issues that people face in the real world
12:56:41 <Judy> [JB: I strongly agree with Carlos that most researchers are unaware of most of the research needs that relate to digital accessibility for people with disabilities!]
12:56:52 <janina> CarlosD: suggests posting specific problem for symposium and asking for approaches
12:57:05 <janina> CarlosD: that might be a way to frame a symposium
12:57:32 <janina> CarlosD: we need to org the first symposium this year; phps that's our approach?
12:57:55 <Judy> +1 to everything Carlos just said
12:58:05 <janina> shadi: summarizing ...
12:58:15 <janina> shadi: need for specific problem solutions
12:58:27 <janina> shadi: don't forget outcomes need to end up in guidelines
12:58:51 <janina> shadi: also providing framings
12:59:47 <janina> shadi: we'll need several followups; propose we meet again; suggesting this time again on the 22nd?
12:59:50 <janina> +1
13:00:10 <CarlosD> +1
13:00:20 <janina> shadi: any objection to this time on the 22nd?
13:00:28 <janina> Judy: no better suggestion for now
13:01:05 <janina> shadi: thanks all
13:02:10 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
13:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/08-apa-minutes.html janina
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