14:50:52 RRSAgent has joined #md-odrl-profile 14:50:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/07-md-odrl-profile-irc 14:50:53 inviting RRSAgent 14:50:54 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:50:55 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jo_ 14:51:21 meeting: Market Data Rights Automation Teleconference 14:51:30 chair: jo 14:51:51 regrets: nigelp, renato 14:55:47 Laura has joined #md-odrl-profile 14:59:24 belen has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:01:51 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:02:34 Caspar_MacRae has joined #md-odrl-profile 15:03:22 present: caspar, trisha, laura, ben, belen, jo 15:04:40 regrets+ markb 15:05:18 present+ markd 15:05:57 Topic: Admin 15:06:04 scribe: jo 15:06:57 jo: minutes of last meeting 15:07:21 ... Ben - call a meeting to discuss FESE terms 15:07:25 ben: still to do 15:07:54 markd: came across investor.gov which has some terms 15:08:09 ... also reaching out to FISD members 15:09:04 jo: actions on caspar - done - will come back to later 15:09:28 RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last meeting 15:09:50 Topic: Report from FISD Webinar 15:10:29 link to webinar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGiDOS92RdE&list=PLg5YwZo7PxhBf2-ObAYedoHCNa_nRKYpx 15:10:44 markd: all went well 15:11:02 ben: feedback was positive, 90 mins was the right amount of time 15:11:20 ... people seemed to stay for the whole time 15:11:47 ... level of discussion was good and candour of the panel was remarked upon 15:12:40 ... would be good to have a glide path 15:12:53 ... discussion on adoption was interesting 15:13:15 ... had a discussion with a bank wondering if they wanted to be an innovator or if they were happy following 15:13:19 ... can we avoid this? 15:14:12 markd: points raised about under-representation of exchanges was important 15:14:22 ... call to action needs to be top of mind 15:14:50 Topic: Versioning 15:15:10 caspar: Nigel and I sent over high level recommendations and points for discussion 15:15:48 ... ideally use semantic versioning ... also support in OWL for deprecating terms 15:16:21 ... difficult to test for compatibility ... difficult to test for compatibility at the domain level 15:16:51 ... in some cases action is backwards compatible ... but not in others, for example in a prohibition 15:17:12 ... looking for prior art, found a couple of papers ... but they don't seem to be complete 15:17:42 ... diff needs to done at semantic level not document level 15:17:59 ... if version is 0 then doesn't matter about breaking changes 15:18:18 ben: let's say you have version 1.0.1 ... 15:18:38 ... if someone is using 2.... then you have a problem 15:18:50 ... if you have 1.0.2 then you can carry on 15:19:01 ... problem lies in the number in the middle 15:19:36 ... take the point on addition of prohibition or constraint 15:20:02 ... is there a way of calling out if an unknown terms was found 15:20:32 ... so that would be fail gracefully 15:20:47 caspar: like the idea of a workflow 15:22:21 jo: could we not say that we'll edit the document only according to rules that are predictable 15:22:37 caspar: most minor number - fixes etc. 15:23:01 ... middle number is used for non-breaking incremental changes 15:24:19 ben: if we changed the definition of duty that would be catastrophic 15:24:35 ... but if we add a term then we can localise the problem. 15:25:35 jo: change version number differently according to the nature of the addition, breaking and non-breaking additions 15:26:01 present+ michelle 15:27:14 caspar: if you hit a term and you don't understand it, then you fail if the rule is to evaluate all the prohibitions 15:28:09 jo: implementation rules make perfect sense as long as we think it rmeains robust 15:28:24 ben: if this works we can maintain simple versioning system to help adoption 15:29:01 jo: anyone else we can reach out to? 15:29:15 caspar: no, academic work is detached 15:29:34 ben: I'll ask someone who is an ontology expert 15:29:44 ... next step is to write it in to the standard 15:30:17 ... will liaise with nigel and caspar to reflect their work 15:30:32 ACTION: Ben to draft versioning text 15:32:02 markd: differences between exchanges - can we accommodate the differences in derived data 15:32:20 ben: we are taking the lego block approach - we have some properties ... 15:32:51 ... which in combination will hopefully explain the differences between exchanges 15:33:20 ... but if they come up with new models we may need additional terms 15:33:35 Topic: Identifiers 15:34:46 caspar: sent a long email, crux is that URN NID is sufficient for every purpose. Some concern around versioning. e.g. currency codes are static LEIs grow over time 15:36:07 ... looks like all roads lead to ISIN ... so if you will allow multiple different types of standards for IDs then there could be a problem 15:37:00 ... seems like there is always a temporal component, whereby the id is checked as of the dat of the contract 15:37:56 jo: so there is a bi-temporal model at work here 15:38:51 ben: having a short-hand whereby the standard is at the date of the contract 15:39:09 ... is a neat solution 15:39:44 caspar: with a perm url the problem doesn't arise 15:40:21 ... unbounded sets will need to be a permid 15:42:44 ben: I can't believe ISO codes would reallocate, such a naff thing to do 15:43:08 ... all the codes we are interested in would be ISO codes 15:43:29 Caspar: I'll check for what the deprecation policy is for any of the referenced standards 15:43:43 ben: good news is that we can referenced via URN 15:44:06 ACTION: Caspar to look into deprecation policy of ISO standards 15:44:20 ben: I'll put the prefixes into the standard 15:45:11 ACTION: Ben to put the identifier prefixes from Caspar into the standard 15:46:13 ben: M49 set is superset of ISO - do we lose anything if we use it 15:46:39 caspar: couple of weird quirks, like gb for uk 15:47:12 ACTION: Caspar to verify that M49 codes with a URN 15:47:35 Topic: GLEIF 15:48:12 ben: LEIs can be dereferenced, they are enforced by regulators, anyone in the market will have one 15:48:36 ... GLEIF will create a URN, and are applying for that schema right now 15:48:53 ... we connected them with W3C who hopefully will help 15:49:10 ... so we can make the recommendation to use LEI and to use URN syntax to do so 15:50:20 Topic: Feedback on Document 15:51:06 ben: feedback is drying up, and attendance is decreasing, does this mean that people are happy enough ... 15:51:25 ... I will write a new version, tidy a few things up 15:51:42 ... so shall we move on to implementation and interoperability ... 15:51:53 laura: makes sense to me 15:52:18 ... are there any parts of the standard that need more review, happy to help with that 15:52:36 ... transition to monthly, good to know, other people then might be involved 15:53:29 (polling floor for views) 15:54:06 michelle: seems like a good point to move forward 15:55:26 mark: what are the targets we are trying to hit? 15:55:48 ... cadence should fit wheat we are trying to achieve and when by 15:56:39 ben: good point, let's focus on what we mean by interoperability, and specify some projects 15:57:30 ben: if I see some areas that need further review I'll contact Laura/Michelle/Mark 15:57:46 ... versioning and IDs need to go on 15:58:05 ... I'll try to do that in the next fortnight 15:58:38 Topic: AOB 15:59:07 jo: hearing none, meeting closed 15:59:47 scribeoptions: -oldstyle -nodraft 15:59:55 rrsagent: draft minutes 15:59:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/07-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:03:00 rrsagent, make logs public 16:03:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:03:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/07-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:06:30 rrsagent, pointer 16:06:30 See https://www.w3.org/2021/07/07-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-06-30 16:15:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:15:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/07-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_ 16:40:45 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 17:15:24 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 17:20:21 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 17:34:55 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 17:59:12 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 18:12:51 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 20:19:41 Zakim has left #md-odrl-profile 21:57:05 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 21:57:06 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 22:03:06 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 22:09:05 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 22:19:00 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 22:28:03 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 22:48:35 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 23:14:19 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile 23:15:19 ben has joined #md-odrl-profile