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13:44:55 <avneeshsingh> zakim, this will be epub-a11y
13:44:55 <Zakim> ok, avneeshsingh
13:45:13 <avneeshsingh> present+
13:46:11 <avneeshsingh> chair: avneeshsingh
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14:01:31 <tzviya> present+
14:01:40 <George> present+
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14:04:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
14:04:30 <CharlesL> present+
14:04:52 <CharlesL> scribe+
14:04:58 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1599
14:05:15 <avneeshsingh> PR: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1697/files/839fbaf8c98e7423a0bc6becfa3750472c17d868
14:05:26 <CharlesL> title: Page source when no source 
14:05:50 <avneeshsingh> q?
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14:06:00 <CharlesL> Matt: should not provide source if there is no paper source for the pagination.
14:06:02 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:06:09 <BenSchroeter> present+
14:06:23 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:06:29 <CharlesL> … should provide if there is an actual source.  even if the page #'s are virtual
14:06:31 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:06:39 <avneeshsingh> proposed: Identify the source in the metadata only if the static pages correspond to another version of the publication, and not when the publication is source of its own pagination.
14:06:56 <CharlesL> 0
14:07:02 <mgarrish> +1
14:07:04 <BenSchroeter> +1
14:07:05 <tzviya> +1
14:07:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
14:07:09 <laurab> +1
14:07:19 <Will> +1
14:07:21 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:07:27 <avneeshsingh> resolved
14:07:54 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1622
14:08:10 <CharlesL> title: Digital Only Page Breaks
14:08:26 <CharlesL> avneesh: RS is doing the page #'s, and metadata issue.
14:09:04 <mgarrish> q+
14:09:12 <CharlesL> …, dynamic page #s from RS / distributors.  but we want to know if the Publisher puts in the page #s.
14:09:31 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:09:36 <CharlesL> …, metadata one value accessibilityFeatures=printPageNumbers
14:09:46 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:09:54 <CharlesL> …, should we add another for digital only? brought to the CG?
14:10:11 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:10:46 <CharlesL> Matt: abuse of DC:Source if there is a print equivalent.  we have two pieces of metadata printPageNumbers that you have a source that there is a source paper .
14:11:03 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:11:11 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
14:11:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:11:57 <CharlesL> …, need to look at what we have and maybe we can provide page list, but this may not be the group to do this, and we need to formalize the schema.org metadata values.  Where is the correct group to do this. and maintain this information and hash out these additional issues.
14:11:59 <tzviya> q+ to comment on changing schema.org
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14:12:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
14:12:27 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:12:40 <George> George has joined #epub-a11y
14:12:41 <CharlesL> Avneesh: normative does not require schema.org requirements, its only in the techniques.  So may not be required to address here.
14:13:00 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:13:07 <avneeshsingh> ack tz
14:13:07 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to comment on changing schema.org
14:13:14 <CharlesL> Tzviya: Where did this start from IDPF?
14:13:31 <CharlesL> q+
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14:14:15 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:14:27 <CharlesL> Matt: Originally this work was done from Benetech and WGBH
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14:14:48 <avneeshsingh> ack charl
14:15:04 <CharlesL> Avneesh, we have control over the values.
14:15:19 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:15:33 <CharlesL> …, I will be sending out an email regarding this.
14:16:37 <CharlesL> George, the locators WG we will be discussing this, the publishers need to do this and I don't think that anyone else shouldn't have the ability to do and could be issues with copyright, and for a11y Summary and virtual page breaks have been added as well as a page list.
14:17:18 <CharlesL> …, virtual page #'s need to be added to do citations, and maybe they have an agreement to modify the books to add page #'s upon ingestion.
14:17:34 <CharlesL> Avneesh: static page #'s inside the EPUB is best done by the publishers.
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14:18:03 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:18:07 <CharlesL> …, we can do this here or the Publishing CG, could take over the governance of these values and defer this issue for now.
14:18:35 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1300
14:18:48 <CharlesL> title: alt text for cover image
14:18:53 <avneeshsingh> We can parse any attribute whether it’s in the metadata or book content itself. The system of pre-processing before display ensures this. But no problem doing it on the front end either if it’s in the xhtml.
14:19:09 <CharlesL> q+
14:19:44 <avneeshsingh> ack charl
14:19:46 <CharlesL> Avneesh: do we have enough data for the EPUB3 WG?
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14:21:08 <BenSchroeter> q+
14:21:51 <mgarrish> q+
14:22:00 <CharlesL> Charles: wouldn't it be duplicative info with title / author
14:22:01 <avneeshsingh> q?
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14:22:29 <CharlesL> Avneesh: originally Charles and George was concerned about additional information.
14:22:32 <BenSchroeter> q-
14:22:40 <CharlesL> q+
14:22:55 <avneeshsingh> ack ben
14:23:24 <tzviya> q+ to comment about the value of book covers
14:23:47 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
14:23:53 <CharlesL> George: if the title & author is there then I agree for the most part that this would be decorative, and the "dragon book" example as it was referred to.
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14:24:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:24:39 <avneeshsingh> ack charl
14:24:41 <CharlesL> Matt: is this a bookshelf issue.  is this you are trying to find out
14:25:55 <avneeshsingh> q?
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14:27:19 <avneeshsingh> ack tz
14:27:19 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to comment about the value of book covers
14:27:20 <CharlesL> Charles: concerns about duplicative in the bookstore where this info could be in the book itself.
14:27:27 <mgarrish> q+
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14:28:31 <CharlesL> Tzviya: "NewYork best seller" is interesting use case.  People tend to choose books by cover not sure if they also do the same for the alt text descriptions.
14:28:43 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
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14:30:03 <CharlesL> Bill: concern, sending ambiguous message having hard time what to do/not do for alt text.  alt should convey information, text as image needs that text in the alt text.  Text on the cover needs to be exposed.  I don't see we should make an exception.
14:30:03 <BenSchroeter> q+
14:30:05 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
14:31:10 <CharlesL> Matt: not a description but a title is what we want, conflating issues here potentially
14:31:38 <CharlesL> …, its another name for this book, its a metadata not an alt text.
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14:32:14 <avneeshsingh> ack ben
14:32:20 <CharlesL> Tzviya: the alt text on the cover image page inside the book.  this is not what is provided to the bookstore's thumbnail view of the cover image.
14:32:55 <tzviya> q+
14:33:39 <CharlesL> Ben: useful info is title/author we have other ways to express that information.  In most cases providing that same information as alt text is redundant.  If a book has a nickname can't usually be anticipated, so publisher couldn't put this as an alternative name when publishing.  So I prefer to drop this extra information.
14:33:48 <avneeshsingh> ack tz
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14:35:27 <CharlesL> Tzviya: I agree with Ben nicknames … there is also in fiction the cover can be changed when movies come out.  Original Art Cover, or Movie Cover.  There are some that exist, but not sure how many so this is extra info that we are worrying too much about.
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14:36:09 <CharlesL> George: I get the essential info I need, and am quite happy with it.  I am with Ben.  I don't know where this image gets put on a website where that alt text will come from.  but title and author is fine.
14:36:21 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:36:26 <CharlesL> Avneesh: should be close this or defer this issue to 3.4?
14:37:06 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:37:18 <CharlesL> George: if there are information the Publisher wants they can always put it in the EPUB on the actual cover image's alt text.
14:37:58 <CharlesL> Matt: is it realistic we will come back to this.  maybe pub manifest and can figure it out.  I would tend to say lets close it.
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14:38:11 <CharlesL> Tzviya +1 to closing it
14:38:31 <avneeshsingh> proposed: close the issue 1300, since it is not looking high priority
14:38:33 <BenSchroeter> +1
14:38:47 <mgarrish> +1
14:38:48 <CharlesL> +1
14:38:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
14:38:54 <laurab> +1
14:38:57 <tzviya> +1
14:38:58 <Will> +1
14:39:12 <CharlesL> George: +1
14:39:24 <avneeshsingh> resolved
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14:40:27 <avneeshsingh> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-a11y-eaa-mapping/
14:40:30 <CharlesL> title: A11Y TF mapping requirements EU.  Note in progress
14:41:03 <CharlesL> Avneesh, congrats Christina and all who worked on that.
14:41:08 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:41:20 <CharlesL> …, should we continue working or take a break in July
14:41:28 <mgarrish> q+
14:41:31 <CharlesL> Ben: I am on for a break
14:41:45 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
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14:42:05 <CharlesL> Matt: there are potentially 0 issues.  audio/video deferred to TPAC.  rest seem to be resolved.
14:42:42 <CharlesL> Avneesh: looks like we are ahead of the timeline.  Lets pause for July
14:42:42 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:43:04 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:43:22 <CharlesL> George: will we resume in August 2nd week of August & 4th.
14:43:23 <avneeshsingh> resume in Aug 2nd week.
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14:44:40 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:44:51 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/24-epub-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
14:45:06 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/24-epub-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh
14:45:22 <avneeshsingh> I will do charles
14:45:41 <CharlesL> ok W3C minutes are lagging 5-30 min btw
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14:46:02 <avneeshsingh> Thanks Charles, Ivan will clean and publish
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14:49:22 <avneeshsingh> zakim, leave
14:49:22 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been avneeshsingh, tzviya, George, mgarrish, Bill_Kasdorf, CharlesL, BenSchroeter
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