18:42:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
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18:42:36 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
18:42:45 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
18:42:53 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
18:42:59 <Matt_King> present+
18:43:05 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
18:43:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/24-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
18:43:49 <Matt_King> zakim, clear agenda
18:43:49 <Zakim> agenda cleared
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19:10:44 <Matt_King> TOPIC: July meeting schedule
19:11:34 <michael_fairchild> present+
19:12:41 <Rich_Noah> scribe: Rich_Noah
19:14:08 <Rich_Noah> Matt:  July meeting dates.  Any adjustments?
19:14:47 <Rich_Noah> James: PAC out first meeting.  Will give over to another workstream.
19:15:20 <Rich_Noah> Seth:  Bocoup not available the week of July 5th
19:16:03 <Rich_Noah> Seth: available July 8th
19:16:48 <Rich_Noah> Matt: July 1st, no need for sprint planning meeting.  Can discuss async.
19:17:23 <Rich_Noah> Matt: cancel both meetings for the week June 28th
19:18:12 <Rich_Noah> Matt: July 8th, cancel meeting and return to normal July 15th
19:18:46 <Rich_Noah> Matt:  All meetings on July 1 and July 8th.
19:18:58 <Rich_Noah> Seth: cancel July 5th Automation meeting
19:19:12 <Rich_Noah> TOPIC: Workstream Updates
19:19:59 <Rich_Noah> Matt: call for rollup on app development.
19:22:03 <Rich_Noah> Seth: main work is to update the BE to support working mode changes, i.e. testing individual test plans more frequently.  Laying ground work to display automated tests along manual tests.
19:22:25 <Rich_Noah> Seth: test-queue in final stage with clean up on PR
19:23:03 <Rich_Noah> Seth: Individual changes can be made without effecting a whole
19:23:48 <Rich_Noah> Matt: What environment will PRs land in, when will changes be available, and might testing be needed?
19:25:03 <Rich_Noah> Seth: PR will be on sandbox url, will initial be week of 6/28.  Question of production deployment is larger scale and requires coordination to migrate so that back end can be updated.
19:26:08 <Rich_Noah> Matt: testing somewhat paused right now. Thinking getting starting in July merging tests.  Kicking tires on tests and new test-queue
19:26:47 <Rich_Noah> Seth: connecting pages one by one.  Not as heavy as a lift for test-run.  Could go without reports page.
19:26:59 <Rich_Noah> Matt:  what is the best way to coordinate?
19:27:19 <Rich_Noah> Seth:  Get sandbox up and running.
19:28:14 <Rich_Noah> Matt: send email to list for sandbox.  Not an issue.  Possible available before July 15th meeting.  James use portion of meeting for test-queue.
19:28:23 <Rich_Noah> Seth: need to check with team
19:29:03 <Rich_Noah> Matt: Crystal if test-queue is ready attending July 15th might be a good idea.
19:29:15 <Rich_Noah> Matt: any other updates
19:29:55 <Rich_Noah> Seth: implemented new permissions model. No have PR open for new allow list.  As simple as opening a PR to add testing.
19:30:49 <Rich_Noah> Seth: James, Howard, and I have been reviewing new test generation workflow.  If goes well can start merging next week.  This will be to update all the open test plan PRs.
19:31:44 <Rich_Noah> rob-fentress:  how do screen readers join?
19:32:09 <Rich_Noah> Matt: that is a part of onboarding, Issue 420
19:32:36 <Rich_Noah> Matt: any other updates for app development.  Updates on automation.
19:33:13 <Rich_Noah> michael_fairchild: met earlier this week.  updates on new prototype.
19:36:08 <Rich_Noah> michael_fairchild: new prototype goal of not being tightly coupled with NVDA.  New prototype lives closer to the OS level.   It looks at everything sent to speech synthesizer.  Prototype demoed with next steps identified.  Synthesizer does not output audio.  Not optimal for a contributor that is blind.
19:37:16 <Rich_Noah> Matt: question on driving the screen reader.  Do we plan driving everything with the screen reader?  Possibly use key commands?  Possibly coupled to screen reader but possible abstraction.
19:37:57 <Rich_Noah> Seth: Currently MVP.  Intercept commands.  Use learnings to implement more native protocol.
19:38:23 <Rich_Noah> Matt: so are you still looking at keyboard commands?
19:38:43 <Rich_Noah> Sina: do we need that if we have the speech?
19:39:50 <Rich_Noah> Seth: long term benefit to have api
19:40:40 <Rich_Noah> Matt: making it robust, more than on one screen reader and making it not dependent on UI of screen reader.  You don't have any feedback.
19:41:29 <Rich_Noah> James: have discussed some convenience features.  More than automation, how to make human tester's life easier.  Example, how do we know NVDA  is in focus mode.
19:41:58 <Rich_Noah> Matt: good with approach of MVP and have ambition for driver protocol.
19:42:46 <Rich_Noah> James: role and name could be reported separately
19:43:08 <Rich_Noah> michael_fairchild: that is tricky
19:43:27 <Rich_Noah> James:  it would be the speech, synthesis of the role.
19:44:23 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: michael is thinking inline with what I am thinking.  Part of it is a learning process and moving the project forward.  Make better over time.
19:44:42 <Rich_Noah> Seth: that is correct.  dev tools often use the same tools.
19:44:52 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: great update Michael
19:45:15 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: move on to test writing
19:46:28 <Rich_Noah> James: process has slowed and the resolution to the merge conflicts, windows support.  Hopefully all things can be in place on Monday.  Such as new sliders, breadcrumb and alert.
19:46:41 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I have seen the PR
19:47:04 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: do we have more grid tests and assertions in the work?
19:47:16 <Rich_Noah> James: working through the new APG.
19:47:51 <Rich_Noah> Sina: not a lot of consensus on how grids should work.
19:48:39 <Rich_Noah> Sina: I would like to get power users together to put tests through their paces
19:48:57 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I will have some available to put them through their paces
19:49:24 <Rich_Noah> James: once comes down the pipeline we can prioritize.
19:49:54 <Rich_Noah> James: excited about coverage reporting to start preparing test cases.
19:50:09 <Rich_Noah> Sina: will we be unblocked on Monday?
19:50:34 <Rich_Noah> James: I will have PR reviewed Monday.
19:50:48 <Rich_Noah> Seth: we can do that async after review
19:51:10 <Rich_Noah> TOPIC: Getting started page for test reviewers and testers
19:51:12 <Matt_King> TOPIC: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/420
19:52:26 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: Sina would you be comfortable including this in your work for current scope so new members can get up to speed.  Need getting started materials
19:52:46 <Rich_Noah> Seth:  have some initial notes
19:53:05 <Rich_Noah> James: need to start posting and making items available
19:53:30 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: last comment by James July 7th.  Can you update Seth?
19:53:45 <Rich_Noah> Seth: allow list is an update
19:54:15 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: possible wiki page so a link could be sent.  It would step them through getting started.
19:55:11 <Rich_Noah> James: can we use the July 15th meeting to decide that?  Currently do not have bandwidth to create content between now and then.
19:55:38 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: Seth will you please add your findings
19:55:54 <Rich_Noah> rob-fentress: where can I direct people at this time
19:56:12 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: will have content prepared by the end of July
19:56:31 <Rich_Noah> TOPIC: Windows support
19:57:38 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: windows ci is complicated and most projects run platform independent.  what does have to be windows specific?
19:58:57 <Rich_Noah> James: windows does not accept backward slash.  new test scripts don't need to be accepted on windows.  have members of the team don't use cli.
19:59:12 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: shelling out from a node script seems clunky.
19:59:40 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: howard mzgoddard can we use an npm package?
20:00:40 <Rich_Noah> James: we are all on windows
20:00:53 <Rich_Noah> Sina:  let us not make windows a blocker
20:01:20 <Rich_Noah> James: let us identify when we need an OS specific solutions
20:01:41 <Rich_Noah> Seth: like uri path
20:02:21 <Rich_Noah> James: generation of tests and validations needs to run on windows
20:02:42 <Rich_Noah> Seth: PRs and issues are open and underway now.
20:03:11 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I did not want to ask the engineering team to make any large changes and not effect velocity
20:03:48 <Rich_Noah> Seth: should put to paper all scripts should be cross platform.
20:04:47 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I think we are good on issue 445
20:04:52 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
20:04:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/24-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King