11:45:47 RRSAgent has joined #a11yfeat 11:45:47 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-a11yfeat-irc 11:46:34 yatil has joined #a11yfeat 11:46:38 Zakim has joined #a11yfeat 11:46:56 agenda? 11:47:50 agenda+ Introductions 11:47:51 agenda+ Finalizing the mission statement 11:47:51 agenda+ Finding a regular meeting time 11:47:51 agenda+ Initial activities 11:47:51 agenda+ Tools to use in the CG 12:15:51 yatil-test has joined #a11yfeat 12:45:40 yatil_ has joined #a11yfeat 14:34:52 trackbot has joined #a11yfeat 14:35:02 trackbot, start meeting 14:35:02 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 14:35:58 trackbot, bye 14:35:58 trackbot has left #a11yfeat 14:55:12 Wilco has joined #a11yfeat 14:55:30 agenda? 14:55:49 scribe: Wilco 15:00:34 hdv has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:01 marcus has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:13 ccairns has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:13 nloding has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:17 kristie has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:20 zakim, start meeting 15:03:20 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:03:21 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), yatil 15:03:29 jkphl has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:35 meeting: Accessibility Features Community Group 15:03:41 jules_ has joined #a11yfeat 15:03:47 kilianvalkhof has joined #a11yfeat 15:04:09 q+ 15:04:20 ack yat 15:04:34 scribe: hdv 15:04:48 take up item 1 15:04:53 Zakim, take up next 15:04:53 agendum 1 was just opened, hdv 15:05:14 15:06:29 q+ 15:06:35 yatil: The goal of this group is to make accessibility work not just at the point of content creation, but also at the point of where the user views content 15:06:44 yatil: I think we should go around the room for introductions 15:07:07 q+ 15:07:13 q+ 15:07:14 ack w 15:07:18 q+ 15:07:20 ack j 15:07:20 q+ 15:07:21 ack wilco 15:07:36 ack h 15:07:56 q? 15:07:58 q+ 15:08:00 ack n 15:08:02 q+ 15:08:23 ack k 15:08:52 ack m 15:09:36 ack c 15:12:03 yatil: thanks everyone for introductions, this is a great group! Let's get started 15:12:19 Zakim, take up next 15:12:19 agendum 2 -- Finalizing the mission statement -- taken up [from yatil] 15:12:39 https://www.w3.org/community/a11yfeat/2021/06/10/call-for-participation-in-accessibility-features-community-group/ 15:13:22 James has joined #a11yfeat 15:13:24 yatil: the four paragraphs on that web page and the list of different types of features is what Wilco, Hidde and I talked about earlier 15:13:51 [reads out the page] 15:15:46 yatil: is everyone with this mission statement, do people have any comments? we would like to have consensus that this is something we all want to be working on 15:16:04 Wilco: do people feel like there is anything missing from the statement? 15:16:56 marcus: Maybe in the second paragraph it needs an example? after 'challenges unique to their content', I would expect a 'for example' 15:17:28 yatil: makes … our idea was that instead of fixing contrast issues, you could focus on writing alternative text, because that is something especially unique to your content 15:17:48 q+ 15:18:22 hvd: I wonder if we want to highlight a lot of that. 15:18:36 ... We don't want to inspire people to stop certain types of accessibility work 15:18:50 ack me 15:19:42 s/hvd/hdv 15:19:43 yatil: yup that's one of the things we talked about… we don't want to stop people doing accessibility work, this is about users getting features they need 15:20:01 q+ 15:20:09 yatil: the goal is to give features to people who have needs 15:20:47 Wilco: for me, I would not mind if certain accessibility problems would not be addressed… let's see if we can make some of these things easier. If we can tell authors not to worry about focus, because the user agent ensures that, that would be fantastic 15:20:55 yatil: I agree, but don't want to start from that point 15:20:57 Wilco: that's fair 15:20:59 ack w 15:21:50 yatil: the features we're thinking about its… what is the kind of thing a browser of operating system _could_ take on 15:22:17 yatil: if we fix it in the browser, we can fix it once and for everyone, rather than relying on every website to fix 15:22:21 q+ 15:22:40 hdv: I'm also thinking of features like video player added to the browser. 15:22:54 ac kme 15:22:56 ack me 15:22:57 ... At that point you don't need to build your own. Components in the browser that you can trust is a good idea. 15:23:34 yatil: this will come out of our work probably… we'll get an idea of the kinds of things that work 15:24:10 Wilco: may be good to officially accept the mission statement? I'll do a proposed resolution 15:24:10 proposed resolution: Accepted the mission statement as written 15:24:23 +1 15:24:25 +1 15:24:25 +1 15:24:26 +1 15:24:26 +1 15:24:26 +1 15:24:26 +1 15:24:28 +1 15:24:30 +1 15:24:32 +1 15:24:47 kristie +1 15:25:08 resolution: Accepted the mission statement as written 15:25:16 RESOLUTION: Accepted the mission statement as written 15:25:19 Zakim, draft minutes 15:25:19 I don't understand 'draft minutes', hdv 15:25:23 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:25:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-a11yfeat-minutes.html hdv 15:25:40 zakim, take up next 15:25:40 agendum 3 -- Finding a regular meeting time -- taken up [from yatil] 15:26:19 yatil: we thought about biweekly… not twice a week… every other week 15:26:30 yatil: probably around this timeslot 15:28:31 thursdays at 4 would work for me too 15:28:56 yatil: let's meet again in two weeks, Thursday at 5, I'll also send a Doodle 15:29:19 yatil: (that's 5, my time, so the same time as today) 15:30:22 zakim, take up next 15:30:22 agendum 4 -- Initial activities -- taken up [from yatil] 15:30:51 yatil: Wilco, Hidde and I talked a bit about the first deliverables we could do 15:31:23 yatil: one of the things we need to do is to have a catalog of accessibility features 15:32:02 yatil: that way we could also have a matrix of features and which browsers support them 15:32:56 yatil: the second step would be to see what we can use the data for. One of the things that the W3C WAI website has, is a page that explains how to resize text 15:33:03 (https://www.w3.org/WAI/meta/customize/) 15:33:28 https://caniuse.com/ "can i use database" in case you're not familiar 15:33:31 yatil: so one thing that we can do is to create web pages for users that explain how to use accessibility features… something else could be some sort of caniuse-like interface 15:34:03 yatil: any comments on that? 15:34:16 +q 15:34:28 ack kilianvalkhof 15:34:57 kilianvalkhof: given this already exists, how much of what we do would be replicating? can't we link to these resources that are already available? 15:35:47 yatil: that's a good question… caniuse is not really about accessibility features, more about HTML/CSS/JS features. And some of the other resources are a little out of date 15:36:22 yatil: so we think we'll be catalogueing things that caniuse doesn't have. One example is a thing Safari has, that you can set a minimum font size, no other browser does, and it is not in caniuse 15:37:04 kilianvalkhof: could we update that W3C/WAI page? 15:37:20 hdv: may be tricky to convince the owners, and that page is only about one feature 15:37:27 yatil: yes but they may be able to benefit from that work 15:37:51 yatil: other comments? I don't want to prescribe what we do…  15:38:06 yatil: we could also do what kilianvalkhof does and develop plugins? 15:38:28 Wilco: one other idea that we pitched was to set up a survey and start collecting information on what kinds of features people are looking for / would like to see us focus on? 15:39:05 Wilco: in that case we'll probably also want to create a website and we'd need people ot do that…  15:39:41 yatil: yes so something like 'what kind of accessibility features do you use? which features would you wish to exist?' would help us to identify gaps between browsers, operating systems, etc. It may often be the case that people don't know about certain features 15:40:11 yatil: this could also be work that's happening in two different paths… one collecting data in the survey, the other doing something with that data 15:40:19 +q 15:41:15 marcus: it sounds like the first phase may be like a brainstorming phase? and the second to cluster those etc 15:42:42 yatil: yes… but we'll be following, very loosely, the W3C process, so we want to show what we are doing and why, to help us maintain credibility. So we want to do the research, and then the ideas. 15:43:19 yatil: a regular W3C Working Group expects people to work ~ 4 hours per week… I don't expect people to put in that much time in for this Community Group (of course you would be welcome to)… we want to make slow but steady progress 15:43:35 yatil: so the first thing to do for the next few weeks is to set up asynchronously 15:44:20 ack kilianvalkhof 15:44:28 kilianvalkhof: have we had interest from browser vendors? 15:45:03 kilianvalkhof: they already have a lot of docs of their own, like the Edge team documented a lot 15:45:34 q+ 15:45:45 yatil: yes! we talked to folks, but no strong commitments just yet 15:45:53 yatil: we should always link to documentation when it is available 15:46:34 Wilco: part of this is also to create visibility for this work… the more work we do the more visibility we create… the more engagement we're likely to create 15:48:24 ack w 15:48:33 +q 15:48:47 ack ccairns 15:49:59 ccairns: interesting to look at the browsers and what already exists… so maybe we also need a list of things that crop up when we make websites, as developers… so what are things that are tough to create for developers and people would reach for a plugin 15:50:34 yatil: we probably all have lists of, like, the 7 things that are broken on every website kind of thing… definitely a good way to find things that we would want to try and look at for this work 15:51:33 yatil: would be good to, when we collect them, consider what are the user needs 15:52:21 +1 15:52:38 zakim, take up next 15:52:38 agendum 5 -- Tools to use in the CG -- taken up [from yatil] 15:53:25 yatil: we have the Slack channel for communication, that seems to be the one that works best for most people, I'd like to keep using that if that's ok for people 15:53:27 q+ 15:54:16 marcus: it looks like for Slack you need a @w3.org address 15:54:20 yatil: I should be able to invite you 15:54:48 example /me my e-mail 15:56:44 yatil: I will invite everyone to Slack, if you can't access let me know and I'll invite you 15:56:58 yatil: for ease of use reasons, I propose using Google services for collaborative document editing 15:57:40 yatil: I see no -1's to that at this time 15:57:51 https://github.com/a11yfeat 15:57:53 yatil: we'd also like to use GitHub for this work, we've created an organisation for it 15:58:14 yatil: if we create code, prototypes, maybe a website, we could do that work there 15:58:31 yatil: this is a separate organisation from the w3c organisation, because it gives us a little more administrative options 15:58:45 yatil: I don't expect us to be doing a lot there for the next couple of days 15:58:54 yatil: I don't see anyone shaking their heads or fists, so that's good 15:59:40 Wilco: maybe we go around the room to ask how the meeting was, if anyone wants to add anything for today 16:00:01 marcus: no comments, it was my first time in W3C space and I liked how structured it was 16:00:07 jules_: no comments thanks! 16:00:10 kilianvalkhof: no remarks from me 16:00:22 ccairns: nothing from me 16:00:26 kristie: all good 16:00:43 jkphl: same for me as for Marcus, no remarks, overwhelmed. 16:01:12 nloding the IRC bot for the minutes is super cool 16:01:41 hdv: no remarks, thanks everyone for showing up, great to see the turnout 16:02:18 RRSAgent make minutes 16:02:21 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:02:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-a11yfeat-minutes.html hdv 16:05:07 rrsagent, start meeting 16:05:07 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', yatil. Try /msg RRSAgent help