IRC log of a11yfeat on 2021-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:45:47 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
11:46:34 [yatil]
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11:46:38 [Zakim]
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11:46:56 [yatil]
11:47:50 [yatil]
agenda+ Introductions
11:47:51 [yatil]
agenda+ Finalizing the mission statement
11:47:51 [yatil]
agenda+ Finding a regular meeting time
11:47:51 [yatil]
agenda+ Initial activities
11:47:51 [yatil]
agenda+ Tools to use in the CG
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14:34:52 [trackbot]
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14:35:02 [yatil]
trackbot, start meeting
14:35:02 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:35:58 [yatil]
trackbot, bye
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14:55:12 [Wilco]
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14:55:30 [Wilco]
14:55:49 [yatil]
scribe: Wilco
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15:03:20 [yatil]
zakim, start meeting
15:03:20 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:03:21 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), yatil
15:03:29 [jkphl]
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15:03:35 [yatil]
meeting: Accessibility Features Community Group
15:03:41 [jules_]
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15:03:47 [kilianvalkhof]
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15:04:09 [yatil]
15:04:20 [yatil]
ack yat
15:04:34 [hdv]
scribe: hdv
15:04:48 [yatil]
take up item 1
15:04:53 [hdv]
Zakim, take up next
15:04:53 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, hdv
15:05:14 [hdv]
15:06:29 [Wilco]
15:06:35 [hdv]
yatil: The goal of this group is to make accessibility work not just at the point of content creation, but also at the point of where the user views content
15:06:44 [hdv]
yatil: I think we should go around the room for introductions
15:07:07 [jkphl]
15:07:13 [hdv]
15:07:14 [yatil]
ack w
15:07:18 [nloding]
15:07:20 [yatil]
ack j
15:07:20 [kilianvalkhof]
15:07:21 [Wilco]
ack wilco
15:07:36 [yatil]
ack h
15:07:56 [hdv]
15:07:58 [marcus]
15:08:00 [yatil]
ack n
15:08:02 [ccairns]
15:08:23 [yatil]
ack k
15:08:52 [yatil]
ack m
15:09:36 [yatil]
ack c
15:12:03 [hdv]
yatil: thanks everyone for introductions, this is a great group! Let's get started
15:12:19 [hdv]
Zakim, take up next
15:12:19 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Finalizing the mission statement -- taken up [from yatil]
15:12:39 [yatil]
15:13:22 [James]
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15:13:24 [hdv]
yatil: the four paragraphs on that web page and the list of different types of features is what Wilco, Hidde and I talked about earlier
15:13:51 [hdv]
[reads out the page]
15:15:46 [hdv]
yatil: is everyone with this mission statement, do people have any comments? we would like to have consensus that this is something we all want to be working on
15:16:04 [hdv]
Wilco: do people feel like there is anything missing from the statement?
15:16:56 [hdv]
marcus: Maybe in the second paragraph it needs an example? after 'challenges unique to their content', I would expect a 'for example'
15:17:28 [hdv]
yatil: makes … our idea was that instead of fixing contrast issues, you could focus on writing alternative text, because that is something especially unique to your content
15:17:48 [hdv]
15:18:22 [Wilco]
hvd: I wonder if we want to highlight a lot of that.
15:18:36 [Wilco]
... We don't want to inspire people to stop certain types of accessibility work
15:18:50 [hdv]
ack me
15:19:42 [Wilco]
15:19:43 [hdv]
yatil: yup that's one of the things we talked about… we don't want to stop people doing accessibility work, this is about users getting features they need
15:20:01 [Wilco]
15:20:09 [hdv]
yatil: the goal is to give features to people who have needs
15:20:47 [hdv]
Wilco: for me, I would not mind if certain accessibility problems would not be addressed… let's see if we can make some of these things easier. If we can tell authors not to worry about focus, because the user agent ensures that, that would be fantastic
15:20:55 [hdv]
yatil: I agree, but don't want to start from that point
15:20:57 [hdv]
Wilco: that's fair
15:20:59 [Wilco]
ack w
15:21:50 [hdv]
yatil: the features we're thinking about its… what is the kind of thing a browser of operating system _could_ take on
15:22:17 [hdv]
yatil: if we fix it in the browser, we can fix it once and for everyone, rather than relying on every website to fix
15:22:21 [hdv]
15:22:40 [Wilco]
hdv: I'm also thinking of features like video player added to the browser.
15:22:54 [hdv]
ac kme
15:22:56 [hdv]
ack me
15:22:57 [Wilco]
... At that point you don't need to build your own. Components in the browser that you can trust is a good idea.
15:23:34 [hdv]
yatil: this will come out of our work probably… we'll get an idea of the kinds of things that work
15:24:10 [hdv]
Wilco: may be good to officially accept the mission statement? I'll do a proposed resolution
15:24:10 [Wilco]
proposed resolution: Accepted the mission statement as written
15:24:23 [kilianvalkhof]
15:24:25 [jkphl]
15:24:25 [hdv]
15:24:26 [James]
15:24:26 [nloding]
15:24:26 [ccairns]
15:24:26 [marcus]
15:24:28 [yatil]
15:24:30 [Wilco]
15:24:32 [jules_]
15:24:47 [yatil]
kristie +1
15:25:08 [hdv]
resolution: Accepted the mission statement as written
15:25:16 [hdv]
RESOLUTION: Accepted the mission statement as written
15:25:19 [hdv]
Zakim, draft minutes
15:25:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'draft minutes', hdv
15:25:23 [hdv]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:25:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate hdv
15:25:40 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:25:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Finding a regular meeting time -- taken up [from yatil]
15:26:19 [hdv]
yatil: we thought about biweekly… not twice a week… every other week
15:26:30 [hdv]
yatil: probably around this timeslot
15:28:31 [kilianvalkhof]
thursdays at 4 would work for me too
15:28:56 [hdv]
yatil: let's meet again in two weeks, Thursday at 5, I'll also send a Doodle
15:29:19 [hdv]
yatil: (that's 5, my time, so the same time as today)
15:30:22 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:30:22 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Initial activities -- taken up [from yatil]
15:30:51 [hdv]
yatil: Wilco, Hidde and I talked a bit about the first deliverables we could do
15:31:23 [hdv]
yatil: one of the things we need to do is to have a catalog of accessibility features
15:32:02 [hdv]
yatil: that way we could also have a matrix of features and which browsers support them
15:32:56 [hdv]
yatil: the second step would be to see what we can use the data for. One of the things that the W3C WAI website has, is a page that explains how to resize text
15:33:03 [hdv]
15:33:28 [Wilco] "can i use database" in case you're not familiar
15:33:31 [hdv]
yatil: so one thing that we can do is to create web pages for users that explain how to use accessibility features… something else could be some sort of caniuse-like interface
15:34:03 [hdv]
yatil: any comments on that?
15:34:16 [kilianvalkhof]
15:34:28 [hdv]
ack kilianvalkhof
15:34:57 [hdv]
kilianvalkhof: given this already exists, how much of what we do would be replicating? can't we link to these resources that are already available?
15:35:47 [hdv]
yatil: that's a good question… caniuse is not really about accessibility features, more about HTML/CSS/JS features. And some of the other resources are a little out of date
15:36:22 [hdv]
yatil: so we think we'll be catalogueing things that caniuse doesn't have. One example is a thing Safari has, that you can set a minimum font size, no other browser does, and it is not in caniuse
15:37:04 [hdv]
kilianvalkhof: could we update that W3C/WAI page?
15:37:20 [hdv]
hdv: may be tricky to convince the owners, and that page is only about one feature
15:37:27 [hdv]
yatil: yes but they may be able to benefit from that work
15:37:51 [hdv]
yatil: other comments? I don't want to prescribe what we do… 
15:38:06 [hdv]
yatil: we could also do what kilianvalkhof does and develop plugins?
15:38:28 [hdv]
Wilco: one other idea that we pitched was to set up a survey and start collecting information on what kinds of features people are looking for / would like to see us focus on?
15:39:05 [hdv]
Wilco: in that case we'll probably also want to create a website and we'd need people ot do that… 
15:39:41 [hdv]
yatil: yes so something like 'what kind of accessibility features do you use? which features would you wish to exist?' would help us to identify gaps between browsers, operating systems, etc. It may often be the case that people don't know about certain features
15:40:11 [hdv]
yatil: this could also be work that's happening in two different paths… one collecting data in the survey, the other doing something with that data
15:40:19 [kilianvalkhof]
15:41:15 [hdv]
marcus: it sounds like the first phase may be like a brainstorming phase? and the second to cluster those etc
15:42:42 [hdv]
yatil: yes… but we'll be following, very loosely, the W3C process, so we want to show what we are doing and why, to help us maintain credibility. So we want to do the research, and then the ideas.
15:43:19 [hdv]
yatil: a regular W3C Working Group expects people to work ~ 4 hours per week… I don't expect people to put in that much time in for this Community Group (of course you would be welcome to)… we want to make slow but steady progress
15:43:35 [hdv]
yatil: so the first thing to do for the next few weeks is to set up asynchronously
15:44:20 [hdv]
ack kilianvalkhof
15:44:28 [hdv]
kilianvalkhof: have we had interest from browser vendors?
15:45:03 [hdv]
kilianvalkhof: they already have a lot of docs of their own, like the Edge team documented a lot
15:45:34 [Wilco]
15:45:45 [hdv]
yatil: yes! we talked to folks, but no strong commitments just yet
15:45:53 [hdv]
yatil: we should always link to documentation when it is available
15:46:34 [hdv]
Wilco: part of this is also to create visibility for this work… the more work we do the more visibility we create… the more engagement we're likely to create
15:48:24 [Wilco]
ack w
15:48:33 [ccairns]
15:48:47 [hdv]
ack ccairns
15:49:59 [hdv]
ccairns: interesting to look at the browsers and what already exists… so maybe we also need a list of things that crop up when we make websites, as developers… so what are things that are tough to create for developers and people would reach for a plugin
15:50:34 [hdv]
yatil: we probably all have lists of, like, the 7 things that are broken on every website kind of thing… definitely a good way to find things that we would want to try and look at for this work
15:51:33 [hdv]
yatil: would be good to, when we collect them, consider what are the user needs
15:52:21 [Wilco]
15:52:38 [yatil]
zakim, take up next
15:52:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Tools to use in the CG -- taken up [from yatil]
15:53:25 [hdv]
yatil: we have the Slack channel for communication, that seems to be the one that works best for most people, I'd like to keep using that if that's ok for people
15:53:27 [marcus]
15:54:16 [hdv]
marcus: it looks like for Slack you need a address
15:54:20 [hdv]
yatil: I should be able to invite you
15:54:48 [Wilco]
example /me my e-mail
15:56:44 [hdv]
yatil: I will invite everyone to Slack, if you can't access let me know and I'll invite you
15:56:58 [hdv]
yatil: for ease of use reasons, I propose using Google services for collaborative document editing
15:57:40 [hdv]
yatil: I see no -1's to that at this time
15:57:51 [Wilco]
15:57:53 [hdv]
yatil: we'd also like to use GitHub for this work, we've created an organisation for it
15:58:14 [hdv]
yatil: if we create code, prototypes, maybe a website, we could do that work there
15:58:31 [hdv]
yatil: this is a separate organisation from the w3c organisation, because it gives us a little more administrative options
15:58:45 [hdv]
yatil: I don't expect us to be doing a lot there for the next couple of days
15:58:54 [hdv]
yatil: I don't see anyone shaking their heads or fists, so that's good
15:59:40 [hdv]
Wilco: maybe we go around the room to ask how the meeting was, if anyone wants to add anything for today
16:00:01 [hdv]
marcus: no comments, it was my first time in W3C space and I liked how structured it was
16:00:07 [hdv]
jules_: no comments thanks!
16:00:10 [hdv]
kilianvalkhof: no remarks from me
16:00:22 [hdv]
ccairns: nothing from me
16:00:26 [hdv]
kristie: all good
16:00:43 [hdv]
jkphl: same for me as for Marcus, no remarks, overwhelmed.
16:01:12 [hdv]
nloding the IRC bot for the minutes is super cool
16:01:41 [hdv]
hdv: no remarks, thanks everyone for showing up, great to see the turnout
16:02:18 [hdv]
RRSAgent make minutes
16:02:21 [hdv]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:02:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate hdv
16:05:07 [yatil]
rrsagent, start meeting
16:05:07 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', yatil. Try /msg RRSAgent help