IRC log of rdf-star on 2021-06-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:01 [RRSAgent]
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14:53:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-irc
14:53:03 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:53:04 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
14:53:09 [pchampin]
meeting: RDF-star
14:53:13 [pchampin]
chair: pchampin
14:53:31 [pchampin]
regrets: william
14:53:38 [pchampin]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021Jun/0010.html
14:53:40 [agendabot]
clear agenda
14:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
14:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open actions
14:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ Publishing a new report
14:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ Admin
14:53:42 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open-ended discussions
14:54:22 [pchampin]
date: 18 June 2021
14:54:35 [pchampin]
Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-06-04.html
14:55:28 [thomas]
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14:57:28 [AndyS]
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15:00:11 [gkellogg]
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15:01:13 [olaf]
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15:01:59 [pchampin]
present+
15:02:19 [thomas]
present+
15:02:41 [olaf]
present+
15:02:51 [gatemezing]
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15:03:45 [james__]
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15:03:58 [gkellogg]
present+
15:04:07 [james__]
present+
15:04:21 [TallTed]
present+
15:04:25 [AndyS]
present+
15:04:33 [gatemezing]
present+
15:04:38 [pchampin]
scribe: olaf
15:04:45 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:04:45 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:01 [olaf]
pchampin: no newcomers
15:05:03 [pchampin]
q?
15:05:10 [olaf]
... announcements anyone?
15:05:16 [olaf]
... none
15:05:19 [gkellogg]
regrets for next week
15:05:27 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:05:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, pchampin
15:05:32 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:05:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, pchampin
15:05:41 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum anyway
15:05:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next agendum anyway', pchampin
15:05:55 [pchampin]
topic: open actions
15:06:07 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:06:13 [olaf]
pchampin: only one open action
15:06:20 [olaf]
... it has been completed
15:06:25 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter
15:06:39 [olaf]
... initiate a github repo for charter for future WG
15:07:10 [olaf]
... simply took the charter template, currently a lot of boiler plate stuff
15:07:20 [olaf]
... plus a bit of content
15:07:25 [olaf]
... feedback welcome
15:07:56 [olaf]
... currently framed as: writing the new version of RDF RECs
15:08:08 [olaf]
... but everything is open at this stage
15:08:14 [pchampin]
q?
15:08:20 [olaf]
... let#s discuss among us first
15:08:22 [gkellogg]
q_
15:08:24 [gkellogg]
q+
15:08:29 [pchampin]
ack gkellogg
15:08:30 [olaf]
... and later share with the broader community
15:08:49 [olaf]
gkellogg: ??? not complete
15:09:04 [olaf]
... serialization syntaxes not complete
15:09:16 [pchampin]
s/???/deliverable list/
15:09:29 [olaf]
... long list of specs
15:09:36 [olaf]
... which will be controversial
15:09:49 [olaf]
pchampin: it's work in progress
15:10:04 [olaf]
... out-of-scope section is there
15:10:27 [olaf]
... essentially saying that our CG report is a patch on several different specs
15:10:33 [pchampin]
q?
15:10:54 [olaf]
... scope of it should be kept tightly focused
15:11:13 [olaf]
... One possibility mentioned in the draft charter:
15:11:41 [olaf]
... by updating the specs, we are making use of a new feature of the W3C process
15:11:53 [olaf]
... namely, documents are "living documents"
15:11:58 [AndyS]
q+
15:12:10 [olaf]
... that can serve as an argument to keep the scope focused
15:12:18 [pchampin]
q?
15:12:21 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
15:12:39 [olaf]
AndyS: What does it mean to have a "living standard"?
15:12:51 [olaf]
pchampin: it means: a REC can be marked to be open to new features
15:13:20 [pchampin]
q?
15:13:26 [olaf]
... which does not require to go through the whole process (working drafts->last draft -> etc)
15:13:36 [olaf]
... makes the process more lightweight
15:13:40 [pchampin]
q?
15:13:50 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 3
15:13:50 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Publishing a new report -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:13:53 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 2
15:13:53 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:14:46 [pchampin]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021Jun/0012.html
15:14:46 [agendabot]
clear agenda
15:14:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
15:14:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open actions
15:14:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Community Group Process
15:14:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Publishing a new report
15:14:48 [agendabot]
agenda+ Admin
15:14:51 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open-ended discussions
15:14:54 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 3
15:14:54 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Community Group Process -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:15:17 [olaf]
pchampin: Did homework regarding the proposed transition to a final report
15:15:34 [olaf]
... CGs are not WGs
15:15:41 [pchampin]
https://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/
15:15:49 [olaf]
... but still the process is a bit more formalized than thought
15:16:00 [olaf]
... two thing:
15:16:11 [olaf]
... first, we are making a mistake with the list of contributors
15:16:29 [olaf]
... contributors to a CG report must agree to a license agreement
15:16:33 [olaf]
... by joining the CG
15:17:16 [olaf]
... While that's the case for the editors and most of the authors, it's not the case for most of the contributors listed on the draft report
15:17:36 [olaf]
... easiest way forward: rename that section to Acknowledgements
15:17:44 [pchampin]
q?
15:18:10 [pchampin]
PROPOSED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgement', to avoid confusion
15:18:14 [olaf]
q+
15:18:22 [pchampin]
ack olaf
15:18:23 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:18:57 [TallTed]
s/acknowledgement/acknowledgements/
15:19:25 [james__]
q+
15:19:34 [pchampin]
scribe-
15:19:50 [pchampin]
ack james__
15:19:51 [TallTed]
+1 though I don't think this requires group resolution
15:19:51 [olaf]
pchampin: remains in the same place within the doc
15:20:21 [AndyS]
q+
15:20:40 [olaf]
james__: believes that he had to agree the W3C terms
15:20:47 [olaf]
... when joining the CG
15:21:14 [AndyS]
q-
15:21:26 [olaf]
pchampin: mybe that was because of a PR
15:21:32 [olaf]
s/mybe/maybe
15:21:33 [pchampin]
q?
15:21:43 [AndyS]
q+
15:21:55 [olaf]
pchampin: we may also question who is in which section
15:22:10 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
15:22:11 [olaf]
... however, the issue at hand is about the third section
15:22:38 [olaf]
AndyS: doesn't that make it more a bit more complicated?
15:23:21 [olaf]
pchampin: when we go to final report, the license changes
15:23:50 [olaf]
... currently, everyone is giving license for their own contributions
15:24:28 [olaf]
TallTed: no issue about being on the calls etc, but about what they have put into the text
15:24:49 [pchampin]
q?
15:24:51 [olaf]
... we may copy boiler plate text from some other similar report
15:25:06 [olaf]
pchampin: hoping that the current boiler plate text should be enough
15:25:25 [olaf]
... currently just proposing to change the header of the third group of people mentioned on the report
15:25:55 [olaf]
... checking whether it's okay to everyone to rename the header
15:25:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:26:23 [olaf]
s/okay to/okay with
15:26:24 [pchampin]
PROPOSED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgement'
15:26:30 [pchampin]
+1
15:26:39 [thomas]
+1
15:26:45 [AndyS]
+1
15:26:46 [gkellogg]
+1
15:26:48 [olaf]
+1 (Acknowledgements ;)
15:26:57 [gatemezing]
+1
15:27:11 [james__]
1+
15:27:20 [TallTed]
+1 +s
15:27:27 [pchampin]
APPROVED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgements'
15:27:41 [olaf]
pchampin: now to the second point in this context
15:27:58 [gatemezing]
And Bob?
15:27:59 [olaf]
... some of the people under "authors" are not in the CG
15:28:07 [olaf]
... Peter and Bryan
15:28:41 [olaf]
... emailed Peter to asked to join the CG
15:29:09 [olaf]
gkellogg: believe Peter's affiliation has changed
15:29:14 [olaf]
pchampin: Bryan?
15:29:16 [olaf]
q+
15:29:23 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:29:35 [pchampin]
olaf: I'm still in contact with Bryan, I can ask him
15:30:14 [pchampin]
scribe-
15:30:48 [olaf]
AndyS: isn't it important which member orga has signed up?
15:31:44 [olaf]
... some other affiliation has changed
15:31:56 [olaf]
pchampin: another thing:
15:32:19 [olaf]
... got confirmation that "final" in final report doesn't have to final
15:32:47 [gatemezing]
Was there a link to sign up to this group? I don't remeber ....
15:32:52 [olaf]
AndyS: actually, you can join a CG as an individual
15:33:14 [olaf]
pchampin: final report
15:33:26 [olaf]
... some more hoops to jump through
15:33:44 [olaf]
... license of the final report is slightly different (final license agreement)
15:34:09 [olaf]
... an email will be sent to all participants of the CG asking them to explicitly agree to that final license agreement
15:34:31 [olaf]
... Now, there are a lot of people in the CG who are not involved in this work
15:34:42 [olaf]
... hence, it may be a bit strange for hem
15:34:46 [olaf]
s/hem/them
15:35:11 [olaf]
... Other issue: the final report will end up on the W3C pages
15:35:46 [olaf]
... which will make it a bit more complicated if there will be another "final" version later
15:36:32 [gatemezing]
q+
15:36:36 [pchampin]
ack olaf
15:36:38 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:36:39 [olaf]
... The final report may be published even before everyone has signed that final license agreement
15:36:41 [olaf]
q-
15:36:48 [pchampin]
scribe-
15:36:52 [pchampin]
ack gatemezing
15:36:52 [olaf]
;-)
15:37:23 [olaf]
gatemazing: don't see the point about being reluctant about putting this on a W3C page
15:38:06 [olaf]
pchampin: didn't mean not to do that ever
15:38:36 [olaf]
... but still better to wait until we are more convinced that things don't need to be changed
15:38:54 [olaf]
... reluctant to end up with many "final" version
15:38:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:39:12 [olaf]
AndyS: another reason for pushing towards final was
15:39:22 [olaf]
... to be able to mention it in the charter
15:39:31 [olaf]
... but that doesn't seem to be needed anymore
15:39:33 [olaf]
pchampin: right
15:39:53 [olaf]
... the LD license WG charter also points to draft report
15:39:57 [pchampin]
q?
15:39:58 [olaf]
s/report/reports
15:40:07 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:40:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:40:09 [olaf]
... so, that's not a blocking point
15:40:15 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 4
15:40:15 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Publishing a new report -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:40:48 [olaf]
pchampin: do we agree that it's a good time to publish another version?
15:41:00 [olaf]
... maybe not yet marked as "final"
15:41:34 [olaf]
... we have some new content, plus several new parts about controversial content
15:41:51 [olaf]
... technical work quite mature now
15:41:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:42:09 [olaf]
... probably a good time now to have a new timestamped version
15:42:11 [olaf]
+1
15:42:18 [AndyS]
+1 to publishing as a draft
15:42:21 [pchampin]
PROPOSED: publish the current editor's draft as a new draft report
15:42:25 [gkellogg]
+1
15:42:25 [pchampin]
+1
15:42:27 [thomas]
+1
15:42:28 [olaf]
+1
15:42:28 [AndyS]
+1
15:42:30 [james__]
+1
15:42:31 [gatemezing]
+1
15:42:48 [TallTed]
+1
15:42:51 [pchampin]
APPROVED: publish the current editor's draft as a new draft report
15:43:09 [olaf]
pchampin: good, will take care of publishing it
15:43:56 [olaf]
... will create PR with the new version
15:44:00 [pchampin]
action: pchampin to make a PR for the new public draft
15:44:05 [pchampin]
q?
15:44:09 [olaf]
... and give some time for us to react
15:44:16 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 5
15:44:16 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Admin -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:45:01 [olaf]
pchampin: more convenient to have these calls less frequent
15:45:08 [olaf]
... e.g., every other week
15:45:19 [olaf]
... also, considering that the summer break is coming
15:45:46 [olaf]
... any objections?
15:45:48 [gatemezing]
+1
15:45:50 [gatemezing]
q+
15:45:54 [pchampin]
ack gatemezing
15:45:56 [TallTed]
semiweekly == twice a week; biweekly == fortnightly
15:46:33 [olaf]
gatemezing: regarding summer, should we have a break / a month without calls ?
15:46:48 [gkellogg]
q+
15:46:58 [olaf]
pchampin: we have to discuss
15:47:00 [AndyS]
+1 les quinze jours
15:47:13 [olaf]
... not clear how things will go in August
15:47:30 [olaf]
... generally, yes, we may expect a longer break during summer
15:47:49 [pchampin]
PROPOSED: have our calls every 2 weeks, starting now
15:47:52 [pchampin]
+1
15:47:55 [gkellogg]
+1
15:47:56 [gatemezing]
+1
15:48:03 [AndyS]
+1
15:48:05 [TallTed]
+1
15:48:10 [thomas]
0
15:48:22 [olaf]
+1
15:48:23 [james__]
+0
15:48:36 [pchampin]
APPROVED: have our calls every 2 weeks, starting now
15:48:43 [gkellogg]
q?
15:48:46 [pchampin]
ack gkellogg
15:49:02 [olaf]
gkellogg: August is typically lightly attended
15:49:21 [olaf]
... maybe we can survey who will be around when
15:50:14 [pchampin]
q?
15:50:30 [thomas]
pause in august
15:50:40 [olaf]
pchampin: any other ideas how to proceed during summer?
15:51:06 [olaf]
... perhaps we can come back to this question in a future call
15:51:15 [pchampin]
q?
15:51:34 [pchampin]
zakim, move to agendum 6
15:51:34 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Open-ended discussions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:51:48 [olaf]
pchampin: any other business?
15:51:56 [thomas]
q+
15:52:02 [pchampin]
ack thomas
15:52:24 [olaf]
thomas: about my proposal from last week
15:52:52 [olaf]
... my idea to remove it and create several separate PRs
15:53:15 [olaf]
pchampin: took liberty to mark thomas' PR as a draft PR
15:53:27 [olaf]
... which indicates that it is not meant to be merged
15:53:40 [olaf]
thomas: sounds good
15:54:38 [olaf]
pchampin: to keep the discussion focused it's more practical to have smaller PRs
15:54:55 [olaf]
... you can still mark them as draft
15:55:19 [olaf]
thomas: new branch needed for that?
15:55:41 [olaf]
pchampin: yes, always a new branch in your own forked repo
15:56:13 [olaf]
thomas: okay.
15:56:15 [pchampin]
q?
15:56:23 [olaf]
... try to put something together for the next meeting in two weeks
15:56:31 [pchampin]
q?
15:56:33 [olaf]
pchampin: anything else anyone?
15:56:45 [olaf]
... nope -- we can finish early ;-)
15:57:05 [gatemezing]
Thanks pchampin .. thanks all
15:57:29 [AndyS]
zakim, please leave us
15:57:29 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please leave us', AndyS
15:57:37 [AndyS]
zakim, please excuse us
15:57:37 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been pchampin, thomas, olaf, gkellogg, james__, TallTed, AndyS, gatemezing
15:57:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdf-star
15:57:55 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please excuse us
15:57:55 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
15:57:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pchampin to make a PR for the new public draft [1]
15:57:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-irc#T15-44-00