14:53:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
14:53:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-irc
14:53:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:53:04 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
14:53:09 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star
14:53:13 <pchampin> chair: pchampin
14:53:31 <pchampin> regrets: william
14:53:38 <pchampin> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021Jun/0010.html
14:53:40 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
14:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Open actions
14:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Publishing a new report
14:53:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Admin
14:53:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Open-ended discussions
14:54:22 <pchampin> date: 18 June 2021
14:54:35 <pchampin> Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-06-04.html
14:55:28 <thomas> thomas has joined #rdf-star
14:57:28 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
15:00:11 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
15:01:13 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
15:01:59 <pchampin> present+
15:02:19 <thomas> present+
15:02:41 <olaf> present+
15:02:51 <gatemezing> gatemezing has joined #rdf-star
15:03:45 <james__> james__ has joined #rdf-star
15:03:58 <gkellogg> present+
15:04:07 <james__> present+
15:04:21 <TallTed> present+
15:04:25 <AndyS> present+
15:04:33 <gatemezing> present+
15:04:38 <pchampin> scribe: olaf
15:04:45 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:04:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:01 <olaf> pchampin: no newcomers
15:05:03 <pchampin> q?
15:05:10 <olaf> ... announcements anyone?
15:05:16 <olaf> ... none
15:05:19 <gkellogg> regrets for next week
15:05:27 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:05:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, pchampin
15:05:32 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:05:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, pchampin
15:05:41 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum anyway
15:05:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next agendum anyway', pchampin
15:05:55 <pchampin> topic: open actions
15:06:07 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:06:13 <olaf> pchampin: only one open action
15:06:20 <olaf> ... it has been completed
15:06:25 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter
15:06:39 <olaf> ... initiate a github repo for charter for future WG
15:07:10 <olaf> ... simply took the charter template, currently a lot of boiler plate stuff
15:07:20 <olaf> ... plus a bit of content
15:07:25 <olaf> ... feedback welcome
15:07:56 <olaf> ... currently framed as: writing the new version of RDF RECs
15:08:08 <olaf> ... but everything is open at this stage
15:08:14 <pchampin> q?
15:08:20 <olaf> ... let#s discuss among us first
15:08:22 <gkellogg> q_
15:08:24 <gkellogg> q+
15:08:29 <pchampin> ack gkellogg
15:08:30 <olaf> ... and later share with the broader community
15:08:49 <olaf> gkellogg: ??? not complete
15:09:04 <olaf> ... serialization syntaxes not complete
15:09:16 <pchampin> s/???/deliverable list/
15:09:29 <olaf> ... long list of specs
15:09:36 <olaf> ... which will be controversial
15:09:49 <olaf> pchampin: it's work in progress
15:10:04 <olaf> ... out-of-scope section is there
15:10:27 <olaf> ... essentially saying that our CG report is a patch on several different specs
15:10:33 <pchampin> q?
15:10:54 <olaf> ... scope of it should be kept tightly focused
15:11:13 <olaf> ... One possibility mentioned in the draft charter:
15:11:41 <olaf> ... by updating the specs, we are making use of a new feature of the W3C process
15:11:53 <olaf> ... namely, documents are "living documents"
15:11:58 <AndyS> q+
15:12:10 <olaf> ... that can serve as an argument to keep the scope focused
15:12:18 <pchampin> q?
15:12:21 <pchampin> ack AndyS
15:12:39 <olaf> AndyS: What does it mean to have a "living standard"?
15:12:51 <olaf> pchampin: it means: a REC can be marked to be open to new features
15:13:20 <pchampin> q?
15:13:26 <olaf> ... which does not require to go through the whole process (working drafts->last draft -> etc)
15:13:36 <olaf> ... makes the process more lightweight
15:13:40 <pchampin> q?
15:13:50 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 3
15:13:50 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Publishing a new report -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:13:53 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 2
15:13:53 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:14:46 <pchampin> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021Jun/0012.html
15:14:46 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:14:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
15:14:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Open actions
15:14:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Community Group Process
15:14:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Publishing a new report
15:14:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Admin
15:14:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Open-ended discussions
15:14:54 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 3
15:14:54 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Community Group Process -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:15:17 <olaf> pchampin: Did homework regarding the proposed transition to a final report
15:15:34 <olaf> ... CGs are not WGs
15:15:41 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/
15:15:49 <olaf> ... but still the process is a bit more formalized than thought
15:16:00 <olaf> ... two thing:
15:16:11 <olaf> ... first, we are making a mistake with the list of contributors
15:16:29 <olaf> ... contributors to a CG report must agree to a license agreement
15:16:33 <olaf> ... by joining the CG
15:17:16 <olaf> ... While that's the case for the editors and most of the authors, it's not the case for most of the contributors listed on the draft report
15:17:36 <olaf> ... easiest way forward: rename that section to Acknowledgements
15:17:44 <pchampin> q?
15:18:10 <pchampin> PROPOSED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgement', to avoid confusion
15:18:14 <olaf> q+
15:18:22 <pchampin> ack olaf
15:18:23 <pchampin> scribe+
15:18:57 <TallTed> s/acknowledgement/acknowledgements/
15:19:25 <james__> q+
15:19:34 <pchampin> scribe-
15:19:50 <pchampin> ack james__
15:19:51 <TallTed> +1 though I don't think this requires group resolution
15:19:51 <olaf> pchampin: remains in the same place within the doc
15:20:21 <AndyS> q+
15:20:40 <olaf> james__: believes that he had to agree the W3C terms
15:20:47 <olaf> ... when joining the CG
15:21:14 <AndyS> q-
15:21:26 <olaf> pchampin: mybe that was because of a PR
15:21:32 <olaf> s/mybe/maybe
15:21:33 <pchampin> q?
15:21:43 <AndyS> q+
15:21:55 <olaf> pchampin: we may also question who is in which section
15:22:10 <pchampin> ack AndyS
15:22:11 <olaf> ... however, the issue at hand is about the third section
15:22:38 <olaf> AndyS: doesn't that make it more a bit more complicated?
15:23:21 <olaf> pchampin: when we go to final report, the license changes
15:23:50 <olaf> ... currently, everyone is giving license for their own contributions
15:24:28 <olaf> TallTed: no issue about being on the calls etc, but about what they have put into the text
15:24:49 <pchampin> q?
15:24:51 <olaf> ... we may copy boiler plate text from some other similar report
15:25:06 <olaf> pchampin: hoping that the current boiler plate text should be enough
15:25:25 <olaf> ... currently just proposing to change the header of the third group of people mentioned on the report
15:25:55 <olaf> ... checking whether it's okay to everyone to rename the header
15:25:59 <pchampin> q?
15:26:23 <olaf> s/okay to/okay with
15:26:24 <pchampin> PROPOSED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgement'
15:26:30 <pchampin> +1
15:26:39 <thomas> +1
15:26:45 <AndyS> +1
15:26:46 <gkellogg> +1
15:26:48 <olaf> +1 (Acknowledgements ;)
15:26:57 <gatemezing> +1
15:27:11 <james__> 1+
15:27:20 <TallTed> +1 +s
15:27:27 <pchampin> APPROVED: rename the 'contributors' section to 'acknowledgements'
15:27:41 <olaf> pchampin: now to the second point in this context
15:27:58 <gatemezing> And Bob?
15:27:59 <olaf> ... some of the people under "authors" are not in the CG
15:28:07 <olaf> ... Peter and Bryan
15:28:41 <olaf> ... emailed Peter to asked to join the CG
15:29:09 <olaf> gkellogg: believe Peter's affiliation has changed
15:29:14 <olaf> pchampin: Bryan?
15:29:16 <olaf> q+
15:29:23 <pchampin> scribe+
15:29:35 <pchampin> olaf: I'm still in contact with Bryan, I can ask him
15:30:14 <pchampin> scribe-
15:30:48 <olaf> AndyS: isn't it important which member orga has signed up?
15:31:44 <olaf> ... some other affiliation has changed
15:31:56 <olaf> pchampin: another thing:
15:32:19 <olaf> ... got confirmation that "final" in final report doesn't have to final
15:32:47 <gatemezing> Was there a link to sign up to this group? I don't remeber ....
15:32:52 <olaf> AndyS: actually, you can join a CG as an individual
15:33:14 <olaf> pchampin: final report
15:33:26 <olaf> ... some more hoops to jump through
15:33:44 <olaf> ... license of the final report is slightly different (final license agreement)
15:34:09 <olaf> ... an email will be sent to all participants of the CG asking them to explicitly agree to that final license agreement
15:34:31 <olaf> ... Now, there are a lot of people in the CG who are not involved in this work
15:34:42 <olaf> ... hence, it may be a bit strange for hem
15:34:46 <olaf> s/hem/them
15:35:11 <olaf> ... Other issue: the final report will end up on the W3C pages
15:35:46 <olaf> ... which will make it a bit more complicated if there will be another "final" version later
15:36:32 <gatemezing> q+
15:36:36 <pchampin> ack olaf
15:36:38 <pchampin> scribe+
15:36:39 <olaf> ... The final report may be published even before everyone has signed that final license agreement
15:36:41 <olaf> q-
15:36:48 <pchampin> scribe-
15:36:52 <pchampin> ack gatemezing
15:36:52 <olaf> ;-)
15:37:23 <olaf> gatemazing: don't see the point about being reluctant about putting this on a W3C page
15:38:06 <olaf> pchampin: didn't mean not to do that ever
15:38:36 <olaf> ... but still better to wait until we are more convinced that things don't need to be changed
15:38:54 <olaf> ... reluctant to end up with many "final" version
15:38:59 <pchampin> q?
15:39:12 <olaf> AndyS: another reason for pushing towards final was
15:39:22 <olaf> ... to be able to mention it in the charter
15:39:31 <olaf> ... but that doesn't seem to be needed anymore
15:39:33 <olaf> pchampin: right
15:39:53 <olaf> ... the LD license WG charter also points to draft report
15:39:57 <pchampin> q?
15:39:58 <olaf> s/report/reports
15:40:07 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:40:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:40:09 <olaf> ... so, that's not a blocking point
15:40:15 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 4
15:40:15 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Publishing a new report -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:40:48 <olaf> pchampin: do we agree that it's a good time to publish another version?
15:41:00 <olaf> ... maybe not yet marked as "final"
15:41:34 <olaf> ... we have some new content, plus several new parts about controversial content
15:41:51 <olaf> ... technical work quite mature now
15:41:59 <pchampin> q?
15:42:09 <olaf> ... probably a good time now to have a new timestamped version
15:42:11 <olaf> +1
15:42:18 <AndyS> +1 to publishing as a draft
15:42:21 <pchampin> PROPOSED: publish the current editor's draft as a new draft report
15:42:25 <gkellogg> +1
15:42:25 <pchampin> +1
15:42:27 <thomas> +1
15:42:28 <olaf> +1
15:42:28 <AndyS> +1
15:42:30 <james__> +1
15:42:31 <gatemezing> +1
15:42:48 <TallTed> +1
15:42:51 <pchampin> APPROVED: publish the current editor's draft as a new draft report
15:43:09 <olaf> pchampin: good, will take care of publishing it
15:43:56 <olaf> ... will create PR with the new version
15:44:00 <pchampin> action: pchampin to make a PR for the new public draft
15:44:05 <pchampin> q?
15:44:09 <olaf> ... and give some time for us to react
15:44:16 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 5
15:44:16 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Admin -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:45:01 <olaf> pchampin: more convenient to have these calls less frequent
15:45:08 <olaf> ... e.g., every other week
15:45:19 <olaf> ... also, considering that the summer break is coming
15:45:46 <olaf> ... any objections?
15:45:48 <gatemezing> +1
15:45:50 <gatemezing> q+
15:45:54 <pchampin> ack gatemezing
15:45:56 <TallTed> semiweekly == twice a week; biweekly == fortnightly
15:46:33 <olaf> gatemezing: regarding summer, should we have a break / a month without calls ?
15:46:48 <gkellogg> q+
15:46:58 <olaf> pchampin: we have to discuss
15:47:00 <AndyS> +1 les quinze jours
15:47:13 <olaf> ... not clear how things will go in August
15:47:30 <olaf> ... generally, yes, we may expect a longer break during summer
15:47:49 <pchampin> PROPOSED: have our calls every 2 weeks, starting now
15:47:52 <pchampin> +1
15:47:55 <gkellogg> +1
15:47:56 <gatemezing> +1
15:48:03 <AndyS> +1
15:48:05 <TallTed> +1
15:48:10 <thomas> 0
15:48:22 <olaf> +1
15:48:23 <james__> +0
15:48:36 <pchampin> APPROVED: have our calls every 2 weeks, starting now
15:48:43 <gkellogg> q?
15:48:46 <pchampin> ack gkellogg
15:49:02 <olaf> gkellogg: August is typically lightly attended
15:49:21 <olaf> ... maybe we can survey who  will be around when
15:50:14 <pchampin> q?
15:50:30 <thomas> pause in august
15:50:40 <olaf> pchampin: any other ideas how to proceed during summer?
15:51:06 <olaf> ... perhaps we can come back to this question in a future call
15:51:15 <pchampin> q?
15:51:34 <pchampin> zakim, move to agendum 6
15:51:34 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Open-ended discussions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:51:48 <olaf> pchampin: any other business?
15:51:56 <thomas> q+
15:52:02 <pchampin> ack thomas
15:52:24 <olaf> thomas: about my proposal from last week
15:52:52 <olaf> ... my idea to remove it and create several separate PRs
15:53:15 <olaf> pchampin: took liberty to mark thomas' PR as a draft PR
15:53:27 <olaf> ... which indicates that it is not meant to be merged
15:53:40 <olaf> thomas: sounds good
15:54:38 <olaf> pchampin: to keep the discussion focused it's more practical to have smaller PRs
15:54:55 <olaf> ... you can still mark them as draft
15:55:19 <olaf> thomas: new branch needed for that?
15:55:41 <olaf> pchampin: yes, always a new branch in your own forked repo
15:56:13 <olaf> thomas: okay.
15:56:15 <pchampin> q?
15:56:23 <olaf> ... try to put something together for the next meeting in two weeks
15:56:31 <pchampin> q?
15:56:33 <olaf> pchampin: anything else anyone?
15:56:45 <olaf> ... nope -- we can finish early ;-)
15:57:05 <gatemezing> Thanks pchampin .. thanks all
15:57:29 <AndyS> zakim, please leave us
15:57:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please leave us', AndyS
15:57:37 <AndyS> zakim, please excuse us
15:57:37 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been pchampin, thomas, olaf, gkellogg, james__, TallTed, AndyS, gatemezing
15:57:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
15:57:55 <AndyS> rrsagent, please excuse us
15:57:55 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
15:57:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to make a PR for the new public draft [1]
15:57:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/06/18-rdf-star-irc#T15-44-00