IRC log of apa on 2021-06-16

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/16-apa-irc

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15:57:39 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

15:57:39 [trackbot]

Date: 16 June 2021

15:57:40 [janina]

agenda?

15:58:43 [becky]

Chair:Becky

15:58:43 [becky]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements;

15:58:43 [becky]

agenda+ TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings

15:58:43 [becky]

agenda+ Task Force Updates;

15:58:44 [becky]

agenda+ FAST Progres

15:58:44 [becky]

agenda+ Discuss Media Stream Content Hints https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Jun/0001.html

15:58:44 [becky]

agenda+ Discuss Permissions and Permissions Policy https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Apr/0013.html

15:58:44 [becky]

agenda+ CSS Update (Amy) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

15:58:44 [becky]

agenda+Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned

15:58:46 [becky]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

15:58:46 [becky]

agenda+ Other Business

15:58:54 [becky]

agenda?

15:59:11 [paul_grenier]

present+

16:00:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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16:00:31 [becky]

regrets, Gottfried Zimmerman, Michael Cooper

16:00:35 [amy_c]

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16:00:35 [becky]

present+

16:00:39 [amy_c]

present+

16:01:06 [JF]

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16:01:17 [JF]

Present+

16:01:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

16:01:52 [Fredrik]

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16:01:58 [JF]

agenda?

16:02:01 [Fazio]

present+

16:02:09 [Fredrik]

present+

16:04:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe: Lionel_Wolberger

16:04:32 [janina]

present+

16:04:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

16:04:38 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements; -- taken up [from becky]

16:05:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Early stage conversations regarding promoting a11y & AT

16:06:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... A topic raised, is extend the a11y APIs

16:06:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... Needs keep growing

16:06:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... pronunciation for example, and automotive WG, XR immersive environments, ARIA discussing same

16:07:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... if we undertake this, APA would be very involved and it would be a multi-year effort

16:07:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

16:08:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

David: we offer to test

16:08:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: If this is to occur, the next step would be a W3C workshop likely 2022

16:09:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... These are the Accessibility trees that are exposed to AT: iAccessible2, UIAutomation, atk/atspi...

16:10:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:10:28 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

16:10:30 [Zakim]

I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:10:30 [Zakim]

2. TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings [from becky]

16:10:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:10:32 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- TPAC Planning https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings -- taken up [from becky]

16:10:36 [Fazio]

sounds exciting!

16:11:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:11:16 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

16:11:17 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:11:17 [Zakim]

3. Task Force Updates; [from becky]

16:11:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:11:18 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates; -- taken up [from becky]

16:11:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: RQTF continues to have well-attended meetings (with ASL)

16:12:16 [janina]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Wot_usecases

16:12:58 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... re-opening the Web of Things use cases

16:13:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... RQ wanted APA to know, RQ is looking at the Web of Things document

16:14:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... document the need for a restart in small devices (aka 'get out of jail free')

16:15:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Joshue108: Automotive TFis trying to develop a best practices document....

16:15:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and a vehicle specification that may have a11y implications

16:15:34 [Fazio]

sounds interesring

16:15:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

16:15:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q+ for personalization

16:16:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

paul_grenier: Pronunciation TF

16:16:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... still waiting for feedback and working on communications

16:17:03 [becky]

ack Lionel_Wolberger

16:17:03 [Zakim]

Lionel_Wolberger, you wanted to discuss personalization

16:17:03 [janina]

scribe:

16:17:15 [becky]

scirbe: janina

16:17:18 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Personalization still wrangling whether we have 3 attributes or 1 ...

16:17:42 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Matt and John have been working on it via use cases

16:17:49 [JF]

scribe: janina

16:17:52 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Still hoping to move to CR soon

16:18:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Fazio: COGA responded to way finding, mono audio, breadcrumbs, actionable targets

16:18:34 [becky]

scribe: Lionel_Wolberger

16:18:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... hitting hard on mental health as well

16:18:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item\

16:18:55 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close this item\', Lionel_Wolberger

16:18:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:18:59 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- FAST Progres -- taken up [from becky]

16:19:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close item 3

16:19:22 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Task Force Updates;, closed

16:19:23 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:19:23 [Zakim]

4. FAST Progres [from becky]

16:20:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Joshue108: Open survey with the FAST user needs, requesting review from APA

16:20:13 [becky]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Jun/0009.html

16:21:01 [Fazio]

agreed

16:21:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:21:07 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

16:21:08 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:21:08 [Zakim]

5. Discuss Media Stream Content Hints https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Jun/0001.html [from becky]

16:21:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:21:10 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- Discuss Media Stream Content Hints https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Jun/0001.html -- taken up [from becky]

16:21:30 [janina]

scribe: janina

16:21:58 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Media Stream Content Hints

16:22:18 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Provides an optional hint to give consumers info on making choices

16:22:52 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: e.g. your audio codec in a Zoom call, phps a different codec?

16:23:01 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: same for video

16:23:29 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Content hint definitely helpful for decoders

16:23:49 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: phps should be clearer this could be beneficial to AT users

16:24:20 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Also, these hints are actually authored, so the hints could be authored with pwd in mind

16:24:33 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Also, spec makes no mention of support files

16:25:03 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: No support for possibly linked media, e.g. 3rd party described video

16:25:25 [janina]

becky: Is this hint for people who create/modify UI? How provided to user?

16:25:32 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Don't think in the UI

16:25:41 [janina]

becky: not for end users?

16:25:44 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: Yes

16:25:52 [janina]

becky: so at would take advantage

16:25:53 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: yes

16:26:13 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: not an UI/UX spec, but great impact on UI/UX

16:26:26 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: also thought of 2 use cases not covered ...

16:27:12 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: e.g. video content hints -- motion, you want to preserve display of motion

16:27:34 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: so if motion with transcription/caption, those could become blurry

16:27:53 [janina]

q+ to talk about captions

16:28:39 [JF]

Q+

16:28:58 [becky]

ack janina

16:28:58 [Zakim]

janina, you wanted to talk about captions

16:29:15 [becky]

ack JF

16:29:15 [janina]

janina: asks about captions, still burned in?

16:29:24 [janina]

jf: still far too common, e.g. facebook

16:29:34 [janina]

jf: So agree with this use case

16:30:08 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: suggests can make the observation that we prefer not burned in

16:30:22 [Fazio]

good point

16:30:25 [janina]

jf: Notes it's possible to have the one atop the other--a mess

16:30:57 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: also thinking of ua and dom ...

16:31:11 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: does the aapi pass this on?

16:31:34 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: should we require ua passes hint to aapi

16:31:49 [janina]

becky: not necessarily the specification's responsibility?

16:33:14 [JF]

Q+ to ask about metadata schemes?

16:33:23 [janina]

janina: so it's exposed somewhere

16:33:28 [janina]

Lionel_Wolberger: yes, in the ua player

16:33:41 [becky]

ack jf

16:33:41 [Zakim]

JF, you wanted to ask about metadata schemes?

16:34:02 [janina]

jf: perhaps it should be addressed in metadata -- via the containing document

16:34:19 [janina]

jf: maybe we need to promote a better authoring pattern

16:34:24 [becky]

q?

16:34:49 [janina]

Joshue108: at may variously use, or not info from the dom

16:35:22 [janina]

Joshue108: still variants, the old osm plus aapi still out there

16:35:46 [janina]

becky: you wouldn't know at the doc level

16:36:03 [janina]

becky: video may be coming from elsewhere, and containing page wouldn't know

16:36:11 [janina]

becky: so it has to be part of the stream

16:36:18 [janina]

jf: good point

16:36:29 [janina]

jf: maybe embedded in the stream container

16:37:37 [janina]

[discussion on next steps]

16:39:35 [JF]

MP4 files can contain metadata as defined by the format standard, and in addition, can contain Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP) metadata. (source:: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14)

16:41:09 [JF]

Metadata: https://schema.org/MediaObject

16:44:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:44:15 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

16:44:16 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:44:16 [Zakim]

6. Discuss Permissions and Permissions Policy https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Apr/0013.html [from becky]

16:44:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:44:22 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- Discuss Permissions and Permissions Policy https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Apr/0013.html -- taken up [from becky]

16:45:17 [JF]

Metadata Pt. 3 https://schema.org/caption

16:45:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

becky: Permissions can limit browser features

16:46:02 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... concern that this spec might be too low level

16:46:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... APA concern if browser capabilities are turned off

16:46:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... since turned off for everyone, it's not an a11y issue

16:46:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: USB can be turned off? What if the AT is relying on USB?

16:47:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]

becky: spatial tracking, picture in picture are both in there

16:49:40 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

16:51:01 [becky]

https://www.w3.org/TR/permissions-policy-1/#examples

16:52:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: There are examples in the policy spec

16:53:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

becky: Add that implementers should be aware of the possibility of accessibilty features that rely on features that are switched off, e.g. an AT relying on USB

16:53:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: If they are focused on iFrames thats fine

16:54:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

becky: They are talking about cross-browser issues as well

16:55:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Can we use this to disallow automatic audio auto-play

16:55:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel says to Janina and becky +1 to no audio and +1 to no auto-play

16:56:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

becky: I will provide the note

16:56:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:56:37 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

16:56:38 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:56:38 [Zakim]

7. CSS Update (Amy) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from becky]

16:56:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next

16:56:42 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Amy) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from becky]

16:56:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

amy_c: no topics this week from CSS

16:57:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

akim, slose this item

16:57:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

16:57:12 [Zakim]

agendum 7 closed

16:57:13 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:57:13 [Zakim]

8. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from becky]

16:57:57 [becky]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:57:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/16-apa-minutes.html becky

17:00:47 [Fredrik]

Thanks for a good meeting!

17:00:57 [Fredrik]

Have a great week everyone!

17:03:46 [becky]

zakim, end meeting

17:03:47 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been paul_grenier, becky, amy_c, JF, Lionel_Wolberger, Fazio, Fredrik, janina

17:03:48 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

17:03:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/16-apa-minutes.html Zakim

17:03:51 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, becky; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

17:03:55 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #apa

17:04:09 [becky]

rrsagent, bye

17:04:09 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items