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19:45:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-irc
19:45:28 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:45:35 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
19:46:10 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Antoine
19:46:28 <PWinstanley> meeting: DXWG Plenary
19:46:32 <PWinstanley> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2021.06.15
19:46:52 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:46:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
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20:05:45 <PWinstanley> present+
20:05:51 <DaveBrowning> present+
20:06:33 <riccardoalbertoni> present+
20:06:43 <kcoyle> riccardoalbertoni you should be able to get on without a code
20:06:54 <kcoyle> present+
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20:07:23 <annette_g> scribe annette_g
20:07:35 <annette_g> present+
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20:08:36 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:08:45 <Ana> present+
20:08:48 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:08:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:09:42 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2021/05/18-dxwg-minutes
20:09:47 <annette_g> proposed: approve minutes from previous meting
20:10:04 <DaveBrowning> 0 (not present)
20:10:05 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:10:16 <PWinstanley> 0
20:10:19 <plh> +1
20:10:20 <annette_g> +1
20:10:26 <Ana> +1
20:10:28 <kcoyle> +1
20:10:41 <annette_g> resolved: approve minutes from previous meting
20:10:48 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:10:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:10:50 <riccardoalbertoni> 0
20:11:43 <annette_g> topic: Subgroup Activities
20:11:54 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:11:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:12:03 <annette_g> PWinstanley: riccardoalbertoni , can you give a DCAT update?
20:12:15 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: meeting is moving from webex to zoom
20:12:34 <annette_g> request instructions in advance or in IRC
20:12:44 <plh> q+ on calendar/meeting instructions
20:12:47 <AndreaPerego> scribenick: annette_g
20:12:49 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:12:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:12:52 <riccardoalbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed++label%3Adcat++closed%3A%3E2021-05-04
20:13:41 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: last meeting we discussed some issues related to dcat keywords and other terms like dcterms:subject
20:14:21 <annette_g> ... what was considered as a bug is not anymore, so that issue was resolved
20:16:26 <annette_g> ... in DCAT 2, we mention using dcat:theme and skos:schema. There was some confusion. The probably solution will be dropping the range of dcat:theme.
20:16:37 <annette_g> s/probably/probable/
20:18:32 <annette_g> in DCAT2, the range was a skos:concept of theme.
20:20:20 <dsr> dsr has joined #dxwg
20:20:55 <annette_g> topic: Profile Guidance
20:21:09 <annette_g> kcoyle: we talked about moving things into our own github repo.
20:21:52 <annette_g> ... I put out a proposal for the first piece. We don't seem to have the cycles for people to actually work on this.
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20:22:10 <annette_g> ... there was no reply to the proposal.
20:22:31 <riccardoalbertoni> s/what was considered as a bug is not anymore, so that issue was resolved/ dcat:keywords subproperty of dcterms:subject was considered as a bug, but it is probably not anymore, as dcterms:subject seems to take literals besides URI
20:23:11 <annette_g> PWinstanley: as a group, we're a bit on the exhausted side and still have a way to go with DCAT 3. some input is still needed from IETF. It's a bit of a stamina game.
20:23:22 <annette_g> ... what do you see as the shortest path forward?
20:23:46 <annette_g> kcoyle: I thought that looking at the issues was the shortest path. The fact is that no one is putting in time and energy.
20:24:50 <annette_g> PWinstanley: numerous people have signed up for membership in the group. The list is really very long. Regular attendees are less than a dozen.
20:25:10 <riccardoalbertoni> s/in DCAT 2, we mention using dcat:theme and skos:schema. There was some confusion. The probably solution will be dropping the range of dcat:theme./in DCAT 2, we mention using other stuff besides skos:ConceptScheme as  range of dcat:themeTaxonomy. But we didn't update the range of dcat:theme, which was not incorrect but  create  some confusion.
20:25:23 <annette_g> ... we haven't been able to change that. plh , are we any different from other groups?
20:25:47 <annette_g> plh: not really, especially when things are winding down. It might help to take a break.
20:26:08 <annette_g> PWinstanley: how does that fit with the DCAT working cycle? maybe pretty well. What do people think?
20:27:07 <annette_g> DaveBrowning: people's circumstances vary, and there's a mixture of stubbornness and guilt. I was planning to jump into working on the profiles doc, but then I didn't respond to Karen.
20:27:22 <annette_g> DaveBrowning: I would really love us to be able to do something.
20:28:05 <annette_g> PWinstanley: there's a huge amount of material to come forward and help us along.
20:28:32 <annette_g> ... we've had a lot of discussion about this. we've had difficulty finding common ground. I think that stalled some of the activity on profile guidance.
20:29:25 <annette_g> ... we were talking at times about a categorization system and picking them off category by category instead of an overarching opinion that would do for everything. what do you think, kcoyle ?
20:29:49 <annette_g> kcoyle: I've been working on application profiles for Dublin Core, so there's a lot we can offer as well, but I'm not willing to take it on alone.
20:30:31 <annette_g> PWinstanley: Issues that are still open in the other streams, we need to get rid of stuff that's irrelevant, determine what can be readily addressed. That's still hanging around.
20:31:06 <riccardoalbertoni> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:31:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html riccardoalbertoni
20:31:08 <annette_g> kcoyle: there's still the prof vocabulary. I was never sure how that was supposed to connect. And we haven't had a report on that for several months.
20:31:39 <riccardoalbertoni> +q
20:31:43 <annette_g> PWinstanley: it's Australian summer now. Maybe we can try and get something. When do people think it would be appropriate to take a more substantial break?
20:31:48 <DaveBrowning> q?
20:31:53 <annette_g> plh: there's always the option for a summer break.
20:32:03 <annette_g> PWinstanley: how does that work for the timeline for DCAT 3?
20:32:36 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: I won't be available for August and the end of July, so the summer break I will probably take anyway.
20:33:22 <annette_g> ... in terms of the timeline, the group is supposed to end at the beginning of next year. At the moment we have 60 issues open. Andrea made a huge effort in closing issues before the latest draft was issued.
20:33:32 <annette_g> ... we close one issue, and one or two pop up.
20:33:42 <annette_g> ... we need an exit strategy.
20:34:19 <annette_g> ... re feedback on new features, though, I haven't noticed specific comments on them.
20:35:13 <annette_g> PWinstanley: What if we were to take a break for the months of july and august? conference season is in september.
20:35:41 <annette_g> PWinstanley: It might be a good idea to take off July and August.
20:36:03 <annette_g> kcoyle: it's fine with me, but it affects DCAT, not other groups.
20:36:05 <riccardoalbertoni> +q
20:36:33 <annette_g> PWinstanley: I suspect some people will not be available for August. Antoine likely.
20:37:04 <annette_g> AndreaPerego: I think it's fine. July and August I won't be available. We can do stuff on github still.
20:38:01 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: we can have a regular meeting before July. We should plan for more involvement in September.
20:38:21 <annette_g> annette_g: I'm okay with us taking time off. I think it's a good idea.
20:38:31 <annette_g> DaveBrowning: that works for me. I think it's sensible.
20:38:48 <annette_g> proposed: that we take off July and August for vacation
20:38:56 <kcoyle> +1
20:38:58 <Ana> +1
20:38:59 <annette_g> +1
20:39:00 <PWinstanley> +1
20:39:01 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:39:04 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:39:04 <riccardoalbertoni> +1
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20:39:16 <annette_g> resolved: that we take off July and August for vacation
20:39:31 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:39:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:39:54 <annette_g> PWinstanley: we can come back with some fairly specific tasks for September
20:40:24 <annette_g> ... primer on DCAT, bringing together the various presentations
20:40:47 <annette_g> ... the papers are in fairly late stages of writing, right?
20:41:31 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: the ones we're writing as the editors, we plan to submit before end of summer.
20:42:09 <annette_g> PWinstanley: September onwards, we should focus on specific deliverables and see if we can marshall enough people around them.
20:42:36 <annette_g> riccardoalbertoni: we will need to collect implementation info for DCAT supporting the new terms.
20:43:25 <annette_g> PWinstanley: I'm hoping we can begin to get something in the way of implementation from people like Ifo.
20:44:37 <annette_g> PWinstanley: anything else people would like to discuss? I think we're needing a kind of revitalization and reframing of our immediate problems so that we have some farily short term horizons that we can meet. Do you think we can usefully meet with Dublin Core?
20:45:12 <annette_g> kcoyle: it depends how we do it. There's a lot of similar work in DC and W3C. I've suggested starting communities in W3C. I think it would be great to combine forces.
20:45:24 <annette_g> PWinstanley: are there practical issues?
20:45:35 <annette_g> kcoyle: I think there are some, also some issues of ownership.
20:46:02 <annette_g> ... I think it would be great for the application profile work to have some synergy.
20:46:30 <annette_g> PWinstanley: It would be interesting to take a look at folks developing application profiles.
20:46:59 <annette_g> kcoyle: An actual W3C community group on application profiles would be larger than this group, could bring in more hands.
20:47:24 <annette_g> PWinstanley: what about other conference communities?
20:47:53 <annette_g> ... knowledge graph communities, metadata communities
20:48:32 <annette_g> kcoyle: DC is about the core being as useful to as many people as possible, and there can be extensions on that.
20:48:45 <annette_g> PWinstanley: it tends to operate at the lighter end of semantics.
20:48:52 <annette_g> kcoyle: yes, that's the problem and the promise.
20:49:05 <annette_g> PWinstanley: if we need it to be specific, we need stronger, more axiomatized models.
20:49:18 <annette_g> kcoyle: it would be great if those were on a continuum rather than there being a break.
20:49:38 <annette_g> PWinstanley: People have a more external frame than an internal skeleton.
20:50:24 <annette_g> kcoyle: we are looking into SHACL, and thinking the move from metadata to SHeX or SHACL is important.
20:50:46 <annette_g> PWinstanley: There's a awful lot of me-too-ism, with people trying out new things.
20:51:17 <annette_g> kcoyle: you need a certain technology neutrality, but you want what you develop to be useful today.
20:51:26 <annette_g> PWinstanley: anything else? or tea?
20:51:44 <annette_g> ... thanks all
20:52:03 <annette_g> ... we need to send an email out, I'll do that after this meeting.
20:52:17 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:52:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
20:52:32 <Ana> thanks everybody :)
20:53:22 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:53:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/15-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
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