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15:57:26 <jgraham> Meeting: WebDriver-BiDi
15:57:39 <jgraham> Chair: AutomatedTester
15:58:00 <jgraham> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-06-BiDi#Agenda
15:58:10 <jgraham> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
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16:02:11 <jgraham> present+
16:03:02 <brwalder> present+
16:03:07 <cb> present+
16:03:10 <jimevans> present+
16:03:12 <jdescottes> present+
16:03:13 <Honza> present+
16:03:13 <jgraham> RRSAgent: Make minutes v2
16:03:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:03:24 <jgraham> RRSAgent: Make logs public
16:03:43 <whimboo> present+
16:04:49 <AutomatedTester> topic: Web Extensions Community Group
16:05:00 <simonstewart> simonstewart has joined #webdriver
16:05:18 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): this is a FYI item
16:05:52 <AutomatedTester> ... I think that this is relevant to this group as there are a lot of similarities between API surface for webextensions and bidi
16:06:01 <AutomatedTester> ... e.g. sandbox JS execution
16:06:30 <foolip> Regrets for the meeting happening now, I have other stuff I need to take care of I'm afraid.
16:06:56 <AutomatedTester> AutomatedTester_ (IRC): Is there any documentation this group can read up on?
16:07:31 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I don't †hink anything has been released yet... I am mentioning as I think there is potential for collaboration between our group and their group
16:07:33 <brwalder> Charter: https://github.com/w3c/webextensions/blob/main/charter.md
16:08:14 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:08:18 <drousso> drousso has joined #webdriver
16:08:24 <AutomatedTester> topic: Gecko implementation progress
16:08:28 <drousso> present+
16:08:40 <simonstewart> present+
16:08:41 <AutomatedTester> Design doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Of3ZhWIAwYXPezuG_hMpmTK7Nv1a9_E_VsnBWtD2nD8/edit
16:09:17 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): The gecko team have sent out an intent to prototype webdriver bidi
16:09:37 <whimboo> https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-platform/c/kASQnIcU9Nc/m/v77WY5siBwAJ
16:09:41 <AutomatedTester> ... we would love to have feedback on our design document
16:10:16 <AutomatedTester> ... we would love to hear from people implementing the client maintainers to make sure this makes sense
16:10:31 <AutomatedTester> ... any and all feedback is welcome!
16:10:35 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:12:25 <AutomatedTester> topic: context.navigate
16:12:28 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/93
16:13:04 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): the next three items are are status updates and requests for feedback
16:13:30 <AutomatedTester> ... foolip (IRC) has reviewed the html parts and hope to get that landed soon
16:13:43 <AutomatedTester> ... and this is the last call for the bidi to get this landed soon
16:14:07 <AutomatedTester> ... and there has been discussion about how the event ordering should be compared to the command returning
16:14:19 <AutomatedTester> ...[gives example around load event]
16:15:12 <AutomatedTester> ... this is important to know when a navigation has happened by the test or by something else
16:15:29 <AutomatedTester> ... fragments are a special case as they are synchronous
16:16:46 <AutomatedTester> ...[describes how things could return]
16:16:50 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:17:02 <AutomatedTester> github-bot (IRC): end topic
16:17:24 <jgraham> github-bot: end topic
16:17:56 <AutomatedTester> topic: context.reload
16:18:00 <AutomatedTester> github-bot (IRC): https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/107
16:18:14 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/107
16:18:41 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): there is a PR for reloading pages
16:18:57 <AutomatedTester> ... I think this is largely straight forward
16:19:11 <AutomatedTester> ... one feature that is in CDP is force reload
16:19:36 <AutomatedTester> ... and HTML spec does not describe what a "force reload is"
16:19:57 <AutomatedTester> ... [describes cases that are not obvious]
16:20:32 <AutomatedTester> ... all browsers have this so I am assuming this is going to be simple but it could turn out to be not interoperable
16:20:50 <drousso> q+
16:21:09 <simonstewart> q+
16:21:15 <simonstewart> q-
16:21:31 <AutomatedTester> ... I have noted this in the PR as I think it's important to know but I don't think people are going to change how their browser works
16:21:32 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:21:42 <AutomatedTester> ack drousso
16:22:02 <brwalder> q+
16:22:17 <AutomatedTester> drousso (IRC): I just wanted to mention in safari that a force reload means reload and ignore all the caches
16:22:24 <whimboo> q+
16:22:35 <AutomatedTester> ack brwalder
16:23:20 <AutomatedTester> brwalder (IRC): jgraham (IRC) I think you mentioned that force reload is in cdp but I can't see it, I just see ignore cache
16:23:33 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I think I assumed they are the same
16:24:05 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I can see there cases where "ignore the cache" might not mean what we think it is
16:24:09 <AutomatedTester> ack whimboo
16:24:57 <AutomatedTester> whimboo (IRC):are we only allowing this for top level browser context to match browsers
16:25:27 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I assumed it was any context and I don't think I have that limitation in the PR
16:25:51 <AutomatedTester> ... is "reload a frame" a thing?
16:26:02 <AutomatedTester> ... [no replies]
16:26:06 <Honza> Yes, there is "Reload this Frame"  action in Firefox
16:26:07 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:26:25 <drousso> that exists in Safari too
16:26:31 <drousso> i think 😅
16:26:42 <AutomatedTester> github-bot: end topic
16:26:45 <drousso> nooooooo the shame 😭
16:27:12 <AutomatedTester> topic : context.traverseHistory
16:27:14 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/109
16:27:29 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/109
16:27:33 <jgraham> topic: context.traverseHistory
16:27:49 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/109
16:28:29 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): The third change is moving through history
16:28:42 <AutomatedTester> ... I have a draft PR for the html spec changes we need
16:29:00 <AutomatedTester> ... the model here is that you can move via a delta
16:29:38 <AutomatedTester> ... this is different to CDP but the clients do this
16:29:57 <AutomatedTester> ... and it is closer to what cypress does as other tools just have back/forward
16:30:29 <AutomatedTester> ... and since there are things in the bfcache there might not be events that are returned to the user
16:30:31 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:30:59 <AutomatedTester> github-bot: end topic
16:31:21 <AutomatedTester> topic: Stale Element Reference
16:31:26 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1594
16:31:54 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): this is a question that is for all webdriver
16:32:38 <AutomatedTester> ... I understand there was a distinction in the past
16:33:07 <simonstewart> q+
16:33:14 <AutomatedTester> ... the question is what is the expected lifetime...
16:34:27 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:35:04 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart (IRC): The original plan was we kept a cache in the window global.
16:35:27 <AutomatedTester> ... if you navigate away and come back it would nuke our cache
16:36:28 <AutomatedTester> ... in watir and that they will do a lookup again but selenium doesnt do that and assumes the user knows what is the best wayt to handle this
16:36:39 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): i think that is good
16:37:04 <AutomatedTester> ... I think we need to read the webdriver spec and make sure it does what you have just said
16:37:54 <AutomatedTester> ... my inclination is to not have something similar in bidi
16:38:10 <simonstewart> q+
16:38:33 <AutomatedTester> ... and that in bidi we have more complex objects that are returned
16:38:52 <AutomatedTester> ... and they can have large amounts of data that may get stored in a cache
16:38:59 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:39:46 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart (IRC): I think it gets very interested... in webdriver http we required that they keep it instead of the client
16:40:05 <AutomatedTester> ... as the browser would know the lifecycles better than a client
16:41:04 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): my concern is if we return a handle and then it is gc'ed and someone tries to use it and it could return a differrent error
16:41:20 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart (IRC): is this due to JS serialisation
16:41:35 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): maybe... [discusses]
16:42:14 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart (IRC): in webdriver http we essentially wanted something that could be returned that passed going through `json.stringify`
16:42:37 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): [discusses JS execution and handles]
16:42:52 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart (IRC): the original plan was due to things that lives in the DOM
16:43:29 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): that leads to the question about what type of references we need to keep
16:44:13 <AutomatedTester> ... one thing that I think is true in http spec but not bidi is...
16:44:58 <AutomatedTester> ... if you disconnect an element from the DOM but it's still alive then we would return staleelement  reference
16:45:30 <AutomatedTester> ... but in JS the handle would still be held
16:45:53 <AutomatedTester> ... [missed a few items around usage]
16:46:51 <AutomatedTester> action: Verify Webdriver HTTP spec matches the requirements and clarify where necessary
16:47:01 <AutomatedTester> github-bot: end topic
16:47:27 <AutomatedTester> topic: Please review the client
16:47:31 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/28381
16:48:42 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): please review so we can get this landed soon so we can start writing wpt
16:49:01 <AutomatedTester> topic: H2 Priorities
16:49:26 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): this is part question and statement
16:49:46 <AutomatedTester> ... in the spec we are now at a stage to allow parallel spec work
16:50:00 <AutomatedTester> ... I am happy to help people get started with that
16:50:34 <AutomatedTester> ... and moving forward, the next highest value task is `scriptExecution`
16:50:56 <AutomatedTester> ... and there some good easy tasks like screenshots
16:51:13 <brwalder> aside: what does "H2" mean here?
16:51:18 <AutomatedTester> ... and other low hanging fruit
16:52:32 <AutomatedTester> ... [describes cases where we need to choose between cdp vs webdriver in this case]
16:52:42 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:53:24 <jgraham> jgrahm: Other client priorities seem to be request logging and interception, and user input (could be based on WebDriver actions? Not clear what the requirements are)
16:54:22 <AutomatedTester> automatedtester: what about setting wpt as a priority? and moving to requiring tests for spec changes
16:54:50 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): yes, I think we can move towards that. We haven't done it yet as there is no client
16:55:00 <brwalder> q+
16:55:28 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:55:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:55:36 <AutomatedTester> ... and there is no implementation as writing tests in a vacuum is hard
16:55:37 <brwalder> Chromium impl prototype: https://github.com/sadym-chromium/bidiInChromeContext
16:55:44 <AutomatedTester> ack brwalder
16:55:58 <jgraham> RRSAgent: Make logs public
16:56:20 <AutomatedTester> brwalder (IRC): there is a chromium prototype that sadym (IRC) has been working on
16:56:37 <AutomatedTester> ... it's rough but we are starting
16:56:59 <AutomatedTester> ... it doesn't do much
16:57:03 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:59:07 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:59:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:59:15 <jgraham> RRSAgent: stop