14:06:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
14:06:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-irc
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14:06:34 <Steven> Meeting: ixml monthly meeting
14:06:39 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:06:53 <Steven> Agenda:  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Jun/0000.html
14:07:01 <Steven> Date: 8 June 2021
14:07:07 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:08:14 <Steven> Present: Aleksei, John, Michael, Steven
14:08:32 <Steven> Topic: Previous Actions
14:08:53 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to research where to put S for attributes.
14:08:53 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:08:59 <Steven> Constinues
14:09:33 <Steven> Action: Michael to comment on conformance section of new draft
14:09:33 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:09:35 <Steven> DOne
14:09:49 <Steven> Action: Steven to apply Michael's text to spec
14:09:49 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:10:02 <Steven> [Done]
14:10:11 <Steven> Steven: Not yet pushed to github
14:10:49 <Steven> https://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/ixml/ixml-specification.html
14:11:09 <Steven> Steven: Please check.
14:11:33 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0040
14:12:09 <Steven> Steven: I don't think we answered those questions; not added to the spec.
14:13:01 <Steven> ... two questions unanswered there: code points, and grammars
14:13:43 <Steven> MSM: I am confident that the spec should have a story if input doesn't obey the rules, it should be clear if it should be flagged as an error, or be 'undefined'.
14:14:17 <join_subline> 👋 from toronto canada
14:15:13 <Steven> ... if it must 'raise an error', then it protects us from future changes to the spec.
14:15:40 <Steven> ... I asked what SQL does, they said behaviour is undefined.
14:15:47 <join_subline> found this channel in https://w3c.github.io/cg-monitor/
14:16:17 <Steven> .. which allows processors to add their own features.
14:16:47 <Steven> Steven: I'm a big fan of letting the user know (i.e. error)
14:16:58 <Steven> MSM: I'm ok with that.
14:19:55 <Steven> MSM: hex values MUST indicate an assignable unicode character.
14:23:39 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:23:58 <Steven> Present+Tomos
14:24:24 <Steven> Stevven: And that is to protect output from nonsense Unicode sequences
14:24:49 <Steven> ACTTIN: MSM to check conformance text in spec
14:24:57 <Steven> s/vv/v/
14:25:19 <cmsmcq> s/ACTTIN/ACTION/
14:25:33 <Steven> Steven: All other actions continue
14:25:50 <Steven> Topic: Namespaces/Text injection
14:26:54 <Steven> Steven: Thanks for the new suggestions. I suggest that we create requirements for the next version, just to get a first version out of the door.
14:27:24 <Steven> MSM: If we provide for declaration of namespaces, then namespace qualified elements and attributes just use a QName
14:27:49 <Steven> ... and then use a pragma/structured comment for the actual binding
14:28:05 <Steven> ... not local bindings
14:28:15 <Steven> ... NS injection may be easy.
14:28:49 <Steven> ... For text injection, the grammar has the same declarative meaning.
14:29:00 <Steven> ... it's the mirror image of the minus marker
14:29:12 <Steven> ... which gives it a certain appeal
14:29:31 <Steven> John: ANd that could happen in any rule.
14:29:36 <Steven> s/AN/An/
14:30:28 <Steven> MSM: "Is it possible to create a nondeterministic grammar?"
14:31:03 <Steven> Steven: Inserted text has no effect on the parse, only on the serialisation
14:31:44 <Steven> ACTIoN: MSM to check conformance text in spec
14:31:44 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:32:08 <cmsmcq> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Jun/0004.html
14:32:23 <Tom> Tom has joined #ixml
14:32:32 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Jun/0004.html
14:34:34 <Steven> Tom: I like suggestion 3.2
14:36:17 <Steven> MSM: The aim is to target to a particular vocab, except it requires more. Getting <ol> is easy, but <list type="ordered"> is not
14:37:29 <Steven> Tom: I would like plusses on nonterminals as well as terminal text.
14:39:12 <Steven> MSM: We don't need it. There is a way to do that.
14:39:40 <Steven> Tom: If we expect users to understand "+", we should make it do the same thing.
14:41:17 <Steven> Steven: We dont need plus on a nonterminal, because they are already plussed.
14:42:00 <Steven> MSM: It is like the ^ symbol.
14:42:59 <Steven> Tom: Plus feels right.
14:45:06 <Steven> Steven: We have the QNames, just not the bindings for namespaces
14:46:16 <Steven> Aleksei: We want to avoid clashes between grammars. If we use qnames in ixml, it will fix the prefix in the grammar
14:48:12 <cmsmcq> If I’m reading the spec correctly, colon is not currently allowed in names.
14:48:25 <Steven> Steven: YOu may be right
14:48:31 <Steven> s/YO/Yo/
14:48:52 <cmsmcq> Adding it will require some rewriting, to prohibit colon as a final character (if we want to match the rule in xml-names).
14:49:06 <Steven> Tom: As long as there are bindings, it's ok.
14:50:11 <Steven> MSM: Let's agree on +
14:50:16 <Steven> ... postpone namespaces
14:50:19 <Steven> Tom: Agree
14:50:46 <Steven> RESOLUTION" adopt 3.2 "Use a + for inserting text"
14:50:54 <Steven> RESOLUTION: adopt 3.2 "Use a + for inserting text"
14:54:01 <Steven> Topic: Resolving ambiguity
14:54:36 <Steven> Steven: You can always fix it by writing an unambiguous grammar.
14:54:54 <Steven> MSM:: We have closed this issue. Steven has an action.
14:55:17 <Steven> s/::/
14:55:27 <Steven> s/MSM/MSM:/
14:56:15 <Steven> MSM: If there is more than one tree, the processor can return any one and is not obliged to explain its choice
14:58:19 <Steven> Topic: Next meeting
14:58:30 <Steven> 6 July 2021 usual time
14:59:04 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-minutes.html Steven
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15:11:18 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
15:11:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:11:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-minutes.html Steven
15:13:46 <Steven> s/DOne/Done/
15:15:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-ixml-minutes.html Steven
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