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14:31:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:31:34 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
14:31:45 <ivan> Meeting: DID WG Telco
14:31:45 <ivan> Chair: brent
14:31:45 <ivan> Date: 2021-06-08
14:31:45 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-did-wg/2021Jun/0001.html
14:31:45 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2021-06-08: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-did-wg/2021Jun/0001.html
14:31:46 <ivan> Regrets+ burn
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15:07:58 <rhiaro> Topic: special topic call
15:08:02 <rhiaro> brent: no special topic call this week
15:08:09 <rhiaro> ... and meetings for june 22nd and july 6th are cancelled
15:08:25 <rhiaro> ... because of no chairs and independance day respectively
15:08:37 <rhiaro> Topic: CR snapshot
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15:08:54 <rhiaro> manu: here is the snapshot
15:08:58 <dmitriz> present+
15:09:07 <rhiaro> ... more than a week ago we put out a document for review, a CR2, second candidate rec snapshot
15:09:14 <rhiaro> ... that has got some review, discussion on calls and on the list
15:09:28 <rhiaro> ... we added a couple of at risk markers, specifically for sevice and relative-ref
15:09:30 <rhiaro> ... and a few others to be usre
15:09:32 <rhiaro> ... that got review
15:09:34 <rhiaro> ... no objections
15:09:37 <rhiaro> ... no modifications
15:09:44 <rhiaro> ... so the latest snapshot for that is here:
15:09:58 <manu> Here's the latest 2nd Candidate Recommendation time stamped document: https://w3c.github.io/did-core/CR/2021-06-15/
15:10:14 <rhiaro> ... a frozen version of what was reviewed
15:10:27 <rhiaro> ... publication 15th june
15:10:38 <rhiaro> ... needs to be voted on, then ivan can start the w3c process for publication
15:11:00 <rhiaro> ... the minimum number of days needed for a CR is 28 days
15:11:09 <rhiaro> ... july 13th is when the second CR period will end
15:11:17 <rhiaro> ... that's the soonest we'd be able to transition to PR
15:11:22 <rhiaro> ... we have 18 implementations
15:11:27 <rhiaro> ... that number is going up
15:11:34 <rhiaro> ... two features we're looking for other implementations of
15:11:53 <rhiaro> ... everything else that was at risk either we've already got two indpendant implemenations of, or continues to be at risk until we do
15:11:57 <rhiaro> ... did I miss anything?
15:12:03 <rhiaro> ivan: no
15:12:06 <rhiaro> brent: no
15:12:13 <brent> PROPOSAL: Publish https://w3c.github.io/did-core/CR/2021-06-15/ as a Candidate Recommendation Snapshot
15:12:28 <rhiaro> manu: do we have to include the date?
15:12:28 <rhiaro> ivan: no
15:12:39 <rhiaro> ... the 15th is what we want but will not necessarily be the one, it's fine
15:12:53 <ivan> +1
15:12:54 <rhiaro> ... length of time is per process
15:12:56 <manu> +1
15:12:58 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> +1
15:13:00 <shigeya> +1
15:13:01 <agropper> +1
15:13:02 <drummond> +1
15:13:03 <TallTed> +1
15:13:03 <brent> +1
15:13:07 <dlongley> +1
15:13:32 <dmitriz> +1
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15:13:47 <brent> RESOLVED: Publish https://w3c.github.io/did-core/CR/2021-06-15/ as a Candidate Recommendation Snapshot
15:13:50 <rhiaro> brent: seeing no opposition
15:14:00 <rhiaro> ... this represents a lot of hard work from a lot of people
15:14:13 <rhiaro> ... i'd specifically like to call out shigeya's work on test report generation
15:14:15 <manu> yes, +1000 to shigeya -- super, super, helpful work done!
15:14:22 <rhiaro> ... would have been far more difficult without that, thank you
15:14:26 <manu> Thank you for many improvements to the test suite and reporting!
15:14:33 <cel> present+
15:14:44 <rhiaro> Topic: Implementations
15:14:53 <rhiaro> manu: mattr's implementation went in this morning so Ihaven't had chance to regenerate that yet
15:15:12 <rhiaro> ... latest one I have is from a while ago
15:15:28 <rhiaro> ... the biggest improvements to the suite is that we now have a summary of conformance by statement
15:15:33 <rhiaro> ... and the number of implementations that support it
15:15:48 <rhiaro> ... eg. service and relative ref we only had the example impementation. WE've updated it so those ar eno longer counted
15:15:56 <rhiaro> ... anyone should be able to go through and look at how we're doing for every statement
15:16:22 <rhiaro> ... a couple still not implemented. a number for resolution and dereferencing, hopefully that changed with mattr's submission
15:16:29 <rhiaro> ... the biggest things we're looking for feedback on are the did parameters
15:16:37 <rhiaro> ... and a number of resolution and dereferencing functions
15:16:41 <rhiaro> ... we don't have examples of alsoknownas being used
15:16:47 <rhiaro> ... we're looking for implementation feedback on that
15:17:12 <rhiaro> ... the super awkward situation we're in with that is the AP community was expecting the DID spec to define it, and it refers to DID, but if we don't get enough eimplementations we weill remove it to the DID spec and the AP thing will point to a nonexistant entry
15:17:16 <rhiaro> ... I believe that's problematic
15:17:23 <rhiaro> ... it'd be better for implementers that want it to implement it
15:17:27 <ivan> q+
15:17:28 <rhiaro> ... so we don't have to take that out
15:17:55 <brent> ack ivan
15:18:07 <rhiaro> ivan: not ideal but we can also keep it in non normatively or something
15:18:11 <rhiaro> ... so we don't create a 404
15:18:15 <manu> q+
15:18:19 <brent> ack manu
15:18:42 <rhiaro> manu: +1, I'm looking at our at risk marker on it, we say if there's not enough interest we will remove it from the spec
15:18:49 <rhiaro> ... I don't now if that creates an issue or if we can later decide
15:18:58 <rhiaro> ivan: we have a good reason, I think it's not an issue
15:19:26 <brent> Topic: https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/708
15:19:35 <rhiaro> brent: there has been a long discussion in the issue
15:19:36 <justin_R> q+
15:19:43 <rhiaro> ... Mike indicated to me he'd be on the meeting today
15:19:51 <rhiaro> ... but perhaps someone can speak on his behalf?
15:20:00 <brent> ack justin_R
15:20:09 <rhiaro> justin_R: your friendly local deputy here to speak. Mike couldn't make it
15:20:20 <rhiaro> ... he told me that having looked over where things landed, secure key is happy with it being a note to implementers
15:20:27 <rhiaro> ... markus made a good point that the details of this kind of thing belong in resolution
15:20:30 <rhiaro> ... the details of resolution
15:20:42 <rhiaro> ... and kyle's proposed text does seem to put things in the right framing
15:20:55 <rhiaro> ... by the way you can expect something like this to happen but dont' count on it, is what i might personally add
15:20:58 <rhiaro> ... but that's implied
15:21:12 <rhiaro> ... mike said that as far as secure key is concerned the issue can be closed with or without that PR, though my recommendation is we take kyle's PR
15:21:15 <rhiaro> brent: thanks
15:21:38 <justin_R> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/pull/764
15:22:02 <rhiaro> brent: sounds like that PR will resolve that issue
15:22:16 <rhiaro> Topic: DID Core issues and PRs
15:22:20 <brent> Topic: DID Core issues and PRs
15:22:35 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc+-label%3Adefer-v2
15:23:01 <rhiaro> brent: first 718
15:23:07 <brent> subtopic: @issue 718 FAQ Question: Can the DID Subject of a DID Document be updated/changed after the DID Document has been registered?
15:23:15 <manu> q+
15:23:22 <rhiaro> ... I believe there is a PR for this
15:23:25 <brent> ack manu
15:23:33 <rhiaro> manu: there's a PR, ready to go, but merge conflicts that we're waiting on drummond to fix
15:23:43 <rhiaro> drummond: okay
15:23:51 <TallTed> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/718
15:23:56 <manu> q+
15:23:57 <brent> subtopic: @issue 728 All appendix sections needs to be cleaned up
15:23:59 <rhiaro> brent: next 728
15:24:03 <TallTed> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/728
15:24:27 <rhiaro> manu: there are 4 remaining PRs, once those are merged all of the appendices will have had all the editorial changes
15:24:30 <rhiaro> ... means we're done with editorial work
15:24:35 <rhiaro> ... modulo small adjustments
15:24:38 <rhiaro> brent: good news
15:24:52 <rhiaro> ... next is 729
15:24:54 <brent> subtopic: @issue 729 When is the DID URI getting constructed
15:24:54 <manu> q+
15:25:09 <rhiaro> manu: still waiting on me, easy one I just havne't done it
15:25:23 <TallTed> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/729
15:25:33 <rhiaro> brent: next 625
15:25:44 <brent> subtopic: @issue 625 Diagrams need SVG and detailed description
15:25:44 <rhiaro> ... the diagrams need descriptions
15:25:56 <shigeya> q+
15:26:05 <brent> ack manu
15:26:13 <brent> ack shigeya
15:26:16 <rhiaro> shigeya: markus asked me to help find a way to do the convert to svg
15:26:25 <rhiaro> ... the tool he's using can be used to export to svg, should be no problem
15:26:31 <rhiaro> ... once he has time to do that then done
15:26:36 <rhiaro> brent: we'll have the svg
15:26:41 <rhiaro> ... descriptions?
15:26:55 <rhiaro> shigeya: I think he will work on that
15:26:59 <rhiaro> brent: we'll leave that to markus
15:27:15 <brent> subtopic: @issue 719 FAQ Question: Can the DID Controller of a DID Document be updated/changed after the DID Document has been registered?
15:27:29 <rhiaro> brent: assigned to drummond
15:27:31 <manu> q+
15:27:43 <rhiaro> drummond: I've accepted all the suggestions and that's ready to merge
15:27:48 <brent> ack manu
15:28:02 <rhiaro> manu: it's been merged, waiting on michael to confirm we addressed the issue and we can close it with explicit confirmation
15:28:27 <rhiaro> brent: that's all of the issues
15:28:31 <rhiaro> ... six PRs
15:28:52 <rhiaro> manu: we should discuss one
15:28:56 <rhiaro> ... 741
15:29:13 <brent> subtopic: @pr 751 Update Verification Method Rotation section
15:29:27 <rhiaro> manu: might need more people to look
15:29:30 <rhiaro> ... not sure if that would help
15:29:42 <rhiaro> ... biggest issue is that it as editorial update and when it was made people are now re discussing the entirety of the text
15:29:46 <brent> s/@pr 751/@pr 741/
15:29:47 <rhiaro> ... daniel hardman has concerns
15:29:49 <rhiaro> ... orie neesd to respond
15:29:51 <rhiaro> ... it's their text
15:30:03 <rhiaro> ... but now there's disagreement over the text that they had initially put in there by daniel
15:30:12 <rhiaro> ... the default is the PR won't go in and the thing will be editorially messy
15:30:29 <rhiaro> ... I don't know if anyone can chat with daniel hardman and say we need him to propose concrete text and we need orie to talk with him to get there
15:30:33 <rhiaro> ... I don't have any strong preference one way or the other
15:30:36 <rhiaro> ... largely editorial stuff
15:30:39 <rhiaro> ... misunderstanding around text
15:30:43 <rhiaro> ... need orie and daniel to talk
15:30:51 <brent> q?
15:30:54 <rhiaro> ... that's what will resolve it, floating for 23 days
15:30:57 <rhiaro> ... neither of them are here
15:31:07 <rhiaro> ... can anyone take an action to talk with daniel and/or orie to get them to resolve?
15:31:10 <rhiaro> brent: i can reach out to daniel
15:31:59 <rhiaro> brent: we have completed the agenda in record time
15:32:04 <manu> q+ CBOR?
15:32:18 <rhiaro> Topic: CBOR?
15:32:22 <brent> ack CBOR
15:32:25 <rhiaro> manu: sorry to bring this up
15:32:32 <rhiaro> ... the chairs had a quesiton around if we're publsuhing the CBOR thing as a note
15:32:38 <rhiaro> ... we don't have to talk about it today, but we could kick it off?
15:32:40 <rhiaro> brent: we have time
15:32:43 <rhiaro> ... it is an appropriate topic
15:33:04 <rhiaro> ... We did not have enough support for the CBOR section in the spec to get tests written
15:33:07 <rhiaro> ... Which was unfortunate
15:33:17 <rhiaro> ... and that resulted in us needing to resolve to move to the CBOR text into its own note
15:33:27 <rhiaro> ... Link to note?
15:33:29 <ivan> https://w3c.github.io/did-cbor-note/
15:33:58 <rhiaro> ... with minor editorial framing, this is the text of the CBOR section as is
15:33:58 <manu> q+
15:34:07 <rhiaro> ... any mor ethat needs to happen here before it's ready to publish?
15:34:11 <brent> ack manu
15:34:18 <rhiaro> manu: the question is would we make another pass or revisions to the doc or do we think we're done?
15:34:28 <rhiaro> ... definitely done enough for a first version
15:34:31 <ivan> q+
15:34:32 <rhiaro> ... the document stands on its own
15:34:37 <rhiaro> ... there are two minor editorial fixes i need to make
15:34:39 <rhiaro> ... that have to do with broken refs
15:34:48 <rhiaro> ... ivan wanted a different title
15:34:52 <rhiaro> ... minor things
15:35:03 <rhiaro> ... there are some decisiosn to make on that document
15:35:13 <rhiaro> ... a lot of people want this there so there's an example of a representation extension and put it in the registry
15:35:17 <rhiaro> ... that's a good thing, not controversial
15:35:24 <rhiaro> ... we need to understand if jonathan wants to remain an editor on the document
15:35:27 <rhiaro> ... he's an author of a lot of the content
15:35:28 <drummond> +1 to having an example of how to do a representation extension
15:35:30 <rhiaro> ... we need to reach out and ask
15:35:35 <brent> q+ brent
15:35:40 <rhiaro> ... if not I'm happy to do it
15:35:59 <rhiaro> ... even though I don't believe in how this format was put together, but I do believe it is what jonathan wanted and is aligned with the ADM in the spec. it is implementable
15:36:17 <rhiaro> ... Given we haven't seen any implementations for it today I'm wondering if we want toput in a warning that it's an exmaple without good implementationf eedback on it yet
15:36:28 <rhiaro> ... the reason is because there is disagreement on this being an appropriate way to encode the cbor
15:36:35 <rhiaro> ... that there are no implementations and nobody has said they will
15:36:43 <rhiaro> ... it may serve better as an example instead of a 'real' representation
15:36:49 <rhiaro> ... that's the only controversial thing to discuss
15:37:01 <rhiaro> ... if all we're doing s a first published note on this we can decide that later
15:37:10 <rhiaro> ... one thing we could do today is say modulo thos editorial changes, publish it as a note
15:37:13 <rhiaro> ... and start that process
15:37:18 <rhiaro> ... an dlater raise an issue about no implementations
15:37:24 <brent> ack ivan
15:37:37 <rhiaro> ivan: first, as you said, we must have an agreement from jonathan to keep his name
15:37:53 <rhiaro> ... the status section is very short in temrs of history of th edocument
15:38:13 <rhiaro> ... as a reader who doesn't know the background I might be asking question why the text is having very normative feeling statements
15:38:16 <rhiaro> ... capital MUST etc
15:38:23 <rhiaro> ... there is even one single normative reference
15:38:57 <manu> q+ I can provide a summary of the kind that ivan mentioned in the SoTD.
15:38:57 <rhiaro> ... I think it's okay if it still there but maybe it's worth adding a few sentences in the status saying that it uses this language because if it gets implemented a future version of the WG might make it normative
15:39:02 <manu> q+ to say I can provide a summary of the kind that ivan mentioned in the SoTD.
15:39:03 <rhiaro> ... explains why it sounds like a recommendation
15:39:17 <rhiaro> ... I think it's cleaner or better that we as a WG vote on moving this document as a note when it's ready
15:39:18 <justin_R> q+ to end the meeting on a light note, when appropriate
15:39:29 <brent> q-
15:39:30 <rhiaro> ... even these small editorial changes I'd prefer to have them done an dthen vote rather than the other way around
15:39:33 <brent> ack manu
15:39:33 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to say I can provide a summary of the kind that ivan mentioned in the SoTD.
15:39:38 <rhiaro> manu: I'm happy to add that text ivan
15:39:44 <rhiaro> ... and +1 for not considering it until we're completely done with the edits
15:39:48 <brent> ack justin_R
15:39:48 <Zakim> justin_R, you wanted to end the meeting on a light note, when appropriate
15:40:08 <rhiaro> brent: I will take the action to reach out to jonathan
15:40:16 <rhiaro> ... it's appropriate to keep his name as an author
15:40:27 <rhiaro> ... I'll check to see if he wishes to remain as a listed editor
15:40:39 <rhiaro> ... anybody else have anything to discuss on this topic?
15:40:49 <rhiaro> Topic: a lighter note
15:41:02 <rhiaro> justin_R: I'm in the middle of putting together presentations for other stuff, so I was digging through old presentations for slides
15:41:13 <rhiaro> ... this is from a talk I gave 5 years ago about standards groups
15:41:25 <rhiaro> ... "in the end you don't really run out of time, of money.."
15:41:28 <rhiaro> ... "what you run out of is patience"
15:41:38 <drummond> I love it!
15:41:42 <rhiaro> ... congratualations for finally running out of patience and hopefully finishing this spec
15:41:43 <drummond> Patience out!
15:41:45 <rhiaro> brent: ending early, thanks all!
15:42:15 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:42:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/08-did-minutes.html ivan
15:42:40 <cel> +1
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