23:47:23 RRSAgent has joined #epub-locators 23:47:23 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/06/02-epub-locators-irc 23:47:25 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:47:26 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid 23:47:44 meeting: Virtual Locators TF Telco June 2, 2021 23:47:49 date: 2021-06-02 23:47:54 chair: wendyreid 23:53:36 BenSchroeter has joined #epub-locators 23:58:26 present+ 00:00:02 Ronnie has joined #epub-locators 00:00:32 present+ 00:01:53 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KO-HyLGUUw36F-ruAARHNiPO1aUJCCNeTv3zxGtjuHw/edit#gid=0 00:02:05 Mary_Coe has joined #epub-locators 00:02:45 present+ 00:06:06 scribe+ 00:06:21 Wendy: scoping our use cases 00:06:48 ...two so far: 00:06:49 dlazin has joined #epub-locators 00:06:51 ...A teacher wants to ask students to go to a certain location in an EPUB which contains no explicit page-list. The students are using different types of reading systems, nevertheless all reach the same page. 00:07:10 ...A student or other academic wants to cite an ebook, including location. 00:08:11 ...we've discounted several original use cases including bookmarking and deep linking as out of scope for this effort 00:09:14 ...What others shall we include? 00:11:32 ...Folks in a book club want to refer to consistent locations in the text. They might be all reading ebooks, because it's 2046, but each user's ebook of course flows somewhat differently. 00:12:19 dlazin" yes if same version/edition of the publication 00:15:04 Wendy: next use case is interesting: A student who is reading "The Lottery" in the Norton Anthology of English Literature wants to refer to a specific location in the text when talking to another student who read the story in The Collected Works of Shirley Jackson (i.e. common locators within a "chapter" instead of a book). 00:18:10 ...this is a "stretch case" 00:21:16 Mary: this goes beyond what can be done today with print 00:21:46 Wendy: yes in this case we might be able to improve upon current print capabilities 00:23:37 Ben: I don't see how we can implement this using the techniques discussed, but we don't need to solution here. 00:25:20 Wendy: An indexer wants to link a term in an index to its exact location in the book, not just the top of an artificial page. Note that the term does not necessarily occur on the page verbatim — could be a synonym or concept. 00:26:50 ...for this to work, the indexer would need to provide a hook to the ingestion system of a reading system 00:27:13 Ronnie: the index entry is marked in the file, so the reading system can find it 00:27:54 dlazin: indexer becomes responsible for adding a page list if there isn't one 00:29:56 Wendy: it would be difficult to ask an ingestion pipeline to process and generate an index 00:30:46 Thank you for scribing, Ben :) 00:30:46 Ronnie: indexes should be embedded (hotlinked) 00:31:34 Wendy: ok in scope 00:32:10 ...An indexer wants to link an index entry to a range in the book, meaning that the entry refers to the content beginning at the first location and ending at the second location. 00:33:24 Mary: this is aspirational 00:34:10 Wendy: ok might be in scope 00:41:16 Wendy: An indexer is writing and embedding an index for an ebook and needs labels for locator links. (When the ebook includes section numbers, line numbers, or paragraph numbers, they can use those numbers as labels for locator links, but when the text doesn’t have such labels for anchors [CFI or other tagging], they need new labels.) 00:41:25 ...In scope. 00:48:38 Wendy: A machine translation system wants to offer the reader the option of seeing the original source text for a phrase (or, for that matter, tracking consistent "page numbers" across different languages). Note that word order may change between languages, so unlike the lawyer, the translation system cannot just count words; for example, in "I washed my green car" > "J'ai lavé ma voiture verte," the color has moved from word [CUT] 00:49:13 ...out of scope for page numbers but interesting for enhanced cfi's 00:51:19 Wendy: A desktop publishing system like InDesign, or maybe a packaging script, or maybe a reading system, wants to autogenerate locators to ease the pain of authoring EPUBs. (Really, this "use case" is representing the question of where this data is generated. If the RS can do it consistently and automatically, that's best — less work and guaranteed to exist — but also less control.) 00:52:08 ...this use case moves the insertion of locators from the reading system to the authoring tool 00:52:47 ...but the reading system ingestion would have to process these instructions 00:55:26 ...maybe locations get added at the aggregators? 00:56:38 ...for now, let's not get hung up on where this needs to happen. 00:57:42 ...looks like we have our core use cases. I will take the action of putting them into our core document and might alter phrasing to make user stories out of them. 00:58:12 ...next week we can hold them up vs. our proposed virtual locators scheme. 00:59:33 zakim, end meeting 00:59:33 As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, BenSchroeter, Mary_Coe 00:59:35 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 00:59:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/02-epub-locators-minutes.html Zakim 00:59:38 I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 00:59:41 rrsagent, make logs public 00:59:42 Zakim has left #epub-locators 01:00:16 rrsagent, make logs public 01:00:35 rrsagent, please draft minutes 01:00:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/02-epub-locators-minutes.html wendyreid 01:02:18 rrsagent, please draft minutes 01:02:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/02-epub-locators-minutes.html wendyreid