17:54:08 RRSAgent has joined #silver 17:54:08 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-irc 17:54:09 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:54:11 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 17:54:18 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 17:54:18 present: 17:54:18 chair: Shawn, jeanne 17:54:18 present+ 17:54:19 zakim, clear agenda 17:54:19 rrsagent, make minutes 17:54:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html jeanne 17:54:19 q? 17:54:19 agenda cleared 17:54:53 agenda+ Update on May heartbeat draft 17:54:53 agenda+ Review plan for August heartbeat draft 17:54:53 agenda+ W3C calendar app 17:54:53 agenda+ Meeting schedule discussion 17:54:54 agenda+ ACT joint meeting followup proposal 17:55:12 agenda+ Survey to review EO scripts for new videos 17:55:56 agenda order is 1,2,6,3,4,5 17:57:23 present+ 17:58:56 Chuck has joined #silver 17:59:26 ToddLibby has joined #silver 17:59:44 Rain has joined #silver 18:00:56 scribe: sajkaj 18:01:15 zakim, next item 18:01:15 agendum 1 -- Update on May heartbeat draft -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:01:31 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 18:01:31 jeanne: Sliding a bit into June, but ... 18:01:37 https://w3c.github.io/silver/guidelines/ 18:01:38 Francis_Storr has joined #silver 18:01:43 present+ 18:02:07 present+ 18:02:10 jeanne: Notes new Acknowledgements section in Appendix 18:02:10 present+ 18:02:16 jeanne: Several other "new" things 18:03:01 Chuck: AGWG will review Tuesday, if no significant objection, will go to CfC following 18:03:12 jstrickland has joined #silver 18:03:16 present+ 18:03:20 present+ 18:03:33 Chuck: Error prevention is new ... 18:04:08 jeanne: Asks whether separate CfC? So we can progress with that which passes? 18:04:16 Chuck: No, not believed necessary 18:04:33 jeanne: Both lists? 18:04:36 Chuck: Yes! 18:04:48 zakim, next item 18:04:48 agendum 2 -- Review plan for August heartbeat draft -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:04:55 laura has joined #silver 18:05:42 jeanne: Asking all subgroups for what they would like to see in August draft 18:05:48 present+ Laura_Carlson 18:06:23 jeanne: Notes it's important to plan for new content--timeline implications require that 18:06:38 present+ 18:06:42 JF has joined #silver 18:06:47 Present+ 18:07:44 janina: Is there any guidance on how to include this content? 18:08:08 jeanne: I've asked Michael to document the process of including in github, and he will do so by end of next month. 18:08:26 Janina: I think we have an achievable path for specifying what 3rd party content... how you handle that. 18:08:40 Janina: When someone else controls the markup. 18:09:02 Janina: It's a significant thing. 18:09:10 Jeanne: It's good to have progress on that front! 18:10:00 Janina: Peter will be out of pocket for a short time. He will be back, but he'll be overloaded a bit. 18:11:34 Jennifer: Would love if structured content subgroup could have some content in august, but it's been an effort to get ramped up. 18:12:05 jstrickland: Hope to have something ... 18:12:16 jeanne: Suggest comments from January would be good 18:13:20 jeanne: Anyone else? For August? Will likely ask again! 18:14:07 ToddLibby: Notes AGWG reviewing Errors PR, is that August? 18:14:17 jeanne: We hope that's this next May heartbeat 18:14:42 jeanne: But, if there's significant additional work out of AGWG comments, then it would indeed be August 18:15:01 jeanne: Please do look at the WBS 18:15:47 ToddLibby: Notes desire to expand Errors membership 18:16:24 jeanne: We should remember to invite AGWG to join Errors on Tuesday call 18:16:47 SuzanneTaylor: Notes Childrens A11y CG started 18:17:29 SuzanneTaylor: Hopeful of good contrib for WCAG3 18:17:34 jeanne: Great news 18:18:44 jeanne: Suggest good place to start is in writing the user needs 18:19:05 SuzanneTaylor: It's part of the invite to join the CG. It will be our primary focus at first 18:19:21 SuzanneTaylor: We'll also look at research and research gaps 18:19:50 jeanne: Please let me know when you want to be on the Silver agenda! 18:20:09 https://www.w3.org/community/accessibility4children/ 18:20:54 Jan has joined #silver 18:20:56 zakim, next item 18:20:56 agendum 6 -- Survey to review EO scripts for new videos -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:21:00 present+ Jan 18:21:46 jeanne: This is a request from Education & Outreach WG; re new, short videos illustrating user needs, but also how to implement WCAG 2.x SC 18:22:02 jeanne: They're addressing in a way that will also apply to WCAG 3 18:22:17 jeanne: They're asking for review before incurring the expense of creating the profressional videos 18:22:28 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAGvideos_batch2thorough/ 18:22:44 johnkirkwood has joined #silver 18:22:51 jeanne: Please do review and advise if we should have a group discussion 18:23:04 zakim, next item 18:23:04 agendum 3 -- W3C calendar app -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:23:27 jeanne: Notes W3C has a new Calendaring app in beta 18:23:28 https://www.w3.org/blog/2021/03/group-calendaring-service-enters-beta-test/ 18:23:50 jeanne: Available to every WG -- link to a page of that WG's meetings 18:24:01 jeanne: Gives each individual your "My Meetings" 18:24:07 https://www.w3.org/users/myprofile/calendar 18:24:30 jeanne: Proposing to use this app now to send meeting invites 18:24:55 jeanne: Notes that it should work with most calendaring apps, e.g. Google, Outlook, etc 18:25:33 jeanne: Notes that "draft" mode doesn't sent notifications; but once out of that every edit results in another email 18:26:00 jeanne: Would be helpful to have subgroups in the calendar 18:26:48 Janina: Is there a page for each sub-group? How would that work? 18:27:17 Jeanne: If you open your own calendar, go to my calendar link, then you can say add an event. If you want to just have it go to the people in your sub-group, add individual email addresses. 18:27:31 Jeanne: Or you can invite the entire silver list, but that's where there's a risk of spamming. 18:27:39 Jeanne: But you would do it from your own calendar page. 18:27:53 Janina: And I propose we be careful to prevent spamming. 18:28:23 Jeanne: We would have all on Silver page. People in AGWG that we invite to a sub-group, all of these are on the calendar page, and individuals can select what they want. 18:28:34 Janina: I like the notion of having all activity in one place. 18:29:04 Jeanne: ...it's filled up my personal calendar, and I'd like to have it elsewhere. 18:29:37 Janina: We might be able to use this at TPAC. Last year APA had a Google Calendar. Wondering if we can use this creatively for TPAC. 18:29:44 Jeanne: Great idea! 18:30:32 Jeanne: One more tip - if you put the url for the telecon info in the field for teleconf url, and a description for how to join, the telecon url doesn't get sent with the information. You need to include in "description". 18:30:39 Janina: It's a beta. 18:30:56 Jeanne: I'm going to suggest for usability. You can get it, but you have to hunt and know where it is. 18:31:26 Janina: This has been very helpful for me. Did I understand that there's a description for every agenda element? 18:31:56 Jeanne: No, for each meeting, there's an agenda tab. The first field is the url for the agenda, then a description where you can put in the agenda topics. 18:32:23 zakim, next item 18:32:23 agendum 4 -- Meeting schedule discussion -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:32:28 Jeanne: I'll review with Janina outside of call to demonstrate the capabilities and features. 18:32:48 jeanne: Notes this our first Silver telecon in weeks 18:33:04 jeanne: Note we're still on Tuesday AGWG weekly, including next Tuesday June 1 18:33:39 jeanne: Current plan is this will be the ongoing weekly schema; AGWG Tuesday for at least an hour, then Silver Friday at 2PM Boston 18:33:55 jeanne: Question: Do we still want a separate Silver call Tuesdays? 18:34:02 jeanne: Or, just the AGWG call 18:34:11 jeanne: Interested in hearing about this 18:34:16 q+ 18:34:55 Chuck: It seems there will be Silver content for some weeks at least on AGWG Tuesday 18:35:47 jeanne: Modulo a WBS on the topic, expect AGWG at least the next 4 weeks 18:36:02 jeanne: And this Friday time will also continue 18:36:06 ack Ch 18:36:13 zakim, next item 18:36:13 agendum 5 -- ACT joint meeting followup proposal -- taken up [from jeanne] 18:37:09 jeanne: Notes work with Frances to followup from our joint ACT meetings past weeks 18:37:36 jeanne: One outcome is we need more definitions in outcomes 18:37:46 jeanne: But not agreement these should be "definitions" 18:38:04 jeanne: We need to use less ambiguous language, and make outcomes unambiguous 18:38:12 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vsp1V2hBpU6Y0vNt-AGP-Y6fOxx1-IjoKgBJ_3bPlfg/ 18:38:45 jeanne: We're trying to keep plain lang in the main outcome 18:39:02 jeanne: But also a detail section where we need very precise language 18:39:44 Are y'all able to access that document? 18:39:53 jeanne: So we're struggling with the challenge between plain lang and unambiguous lang 18:39:55 I can't open it. 18:40:18 jeanne: Reads current work 18:40:30 s/work/work on headings/ 18:41:17 jeanne: Recalls definition of headings available from HTML, ARIA, PDF, etc 18:41:46 jeanne: ACT agreed to try to create technology neutral outcome testing 18:42:13 q+ 18:42:14 jeanne: Also, exceptions requested to be outcome level 18:43:21 jeanne: Notes this is work in progress and feedback welcome 18:44:52 jeanne: ACT suggested exceptions should be normative and at outcome level 18:45:19 jeanne: ACT would like to fully integrate into WCAG rather than keeping their own repository 18:45:57 jeanne: ACT also wants all examples included, all are needed because they're edge cases people need to know about 18:46:30 ack Chuck 18:46:50 Chuck: Asks about exceptions in outcomes ... 18:47:04 Chuck: See some challenge there, though not opposed 18:47:19 Chuck: Concerned about burgeoning detail in outcomes 18:47:35 jeanne: perhaps an accordian of the details 18:47:56 jeanne: so plain lang in the summary, then open accordian for specificity 18:48:11 jeanne: thinks this will be a very usable model in may locations 18:48:20 +1 to attempting this! 18:48:40 jeanne: Notes the people who need the details are important but few 18:49:00 jeanne: nevertheless important to have details for them that need it 18:49:47 Method Proposal <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/19FaJF_9V1CayeO92OiPpUil9USOTJWOPLdfgcOIJ6Fw/ 18:49:49 jeanne: Turning to method ... 18:50:10 jeanne: Will make each method tech specific, ACT agrees 18:51:00 jeanne: Discusses organization of this in the Google Doc ... 18:52:06 jeanne: Discussion of what goes into summary; could have why? and What to do 18:52:32 Is this draft method template supposed to replace the old template? Do you want us to use this for new Silver guidelines? 18:53:15 jeanne: Notes ACT uses applicability section to reach required specificity 18:54:19 q? 18:54:57 jan: Asks whether we should start using this new template? 18:55:11 jeanne: Not yet, still working on it and need review and general approval 18:56:03 jeanne: Rather than tests, we will write expectations 18:56:29 jeanne: Allows people to test anyway they need, but the results could still meet specified expectations 18:56:51 jeanne: We will also try to write a rule with multiple ACT tests -- which isn't easy 18:57:31 jeanne: We'll see how it works 18:58:41 jeanne: Comments? Questions 18:58:43 [crickets] 18:58:50 jeanne: Anyone like to help? 18:59:15 The cognitive subgroup would like to be included in that meeting 19:00:09 That is Lisa and me (Rain) 19:00:12 jan: Requests for COGA involvement, including scheduling 19:00:14 jeanne: OK 19:01:16 jeanne: Next for us is Tuesday AGWG 19:01:18 rrsagent, make minutes 19:01:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html jeanne 19:01:19 zakim, bye 19:01:19 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jeanne, sajkaj, Francis_Storr, Chuck, Rain, jstrickland, ToddLibby, Laura_Carlson, SuzanneTaylor, JF, Jan 19:01:19 Zakim has left #silver 19:01:23 rrsagent, make minutes 19:01:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html sajkaj 19:01:41 ToddLibby has left #silver 19:36:26 jeanne2 has joined #silver 20:08:42 johnkirkwood has joined #silver 23:11:17 jeanne has joined #silver