IRC log of silver on 2021-05-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:54:08 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-irc
17:54:09 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:54:11 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
17:54:18 [jeanne]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
17:54:18 [jeanne]
present:
17:54:18 [jeanne]
chair: Shawn, jeanne
17:54:18 [jeanne]
present+
17:54:19 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
17:54:19 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:54:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html jeanne
17:54:19 [jeanne]
q?
17:54:19 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
17:54:53 [jeanne]
agenda+ Update on May heartbeat draft
17:54:53 [jeanne]
agenda+ Review plan for August heartbeat draft
17:54:53 [jeanne]
agenda+ W3C calendar app
17:54:53 [jeanne]
agenda+ Meeting schedule discussion
17:54:54 [jeanne]
agenda+ ACT joint meeting followup proposal
17:55:12 [jeanne]
agenda+ Survey to review EO scripts for new videos
17:55:56 [jeanne]
agenda order is 1,2,6,3,4,5
17:57:23 [sajkaj]
present+
17:58:56 [Chuck]
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17:59:26 [ToddLibby]
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17:59:44 [Rain]
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18:00:56 [sajkaj]
scribe: sajkaj
18:01:15 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:01:15 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Update on May heartbeat draft -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:01:31 [SuzanneTaylor]
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18:01:31 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Sliding a bit into June, but ...
18:01:37 [jeanne]
https://w3c.github.io/silver/guidelines/
18:01:38 [Francis_Storr]
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18:01:43 [Francis_Storr]
present+
18:02:07 [Chuck]
present+
18:02:10 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes new Acknowledgements section in Appendix
18:02:10 [Rain]
present+
18:02:16 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Several other "new" things
18:03:01 [sajkaj]
Chuck: AGWG will review Tuesday, if no significant objection, will go to CfC following
18:03:12 [jstrickland]
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18:03:16 [jstrickland]
present+
18:03:20 [ToddLibby]
present+
18:03:33 [sajkaj]
Chuck: Error prevention is new ...
18:04:08 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Asks whether separate CfC? So we can progress with that which passes?
18:04:16 [sajkaj]
Chuck: No, not believed necessary
18:04:33 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Both lists?
18:04:36 [sajkaj]
Chuck: Yes!
18:04:48 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:04:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Review plan for August heartbeat draft -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:04:55 [laura]
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18:05:42 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Asking all subgroups for what they would like to see in August draft
18:05:48 [laura]
present+ Laura_Carlson
18:06:23 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes it's important to plan for new content--timeline implications require that
18:06:38 [SuzanneTaylor]
present+
18:06:42 [JF]
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18:06:47 [JF]
Present+
18:07:44 [Chuck]
janina: Is there any guidance on how to include this content?
18:08:08 [Chuck]
jeanne: I've asked Michael to document the process of including in github, and he will do so by end of next month.
18:08:26 [Chuck]
Janina: I think we have an achievable path for specifying what 3rd party content... how you handle that.
18:08:40 [Chuck]
Janina: When someone else controls the markup.
18:09:02 [Chuck]
Janina: It's a significant thing.
18:09:10 [Chuck]
Jeanne: It's good to have progress on that front!
18:10:00 [Chuck]
Janina: Peter will be out of pocket for a short time. He will be back, but he'll be overloaded a bit.
18:11:34 [Chuck]
Jennifer: Would love if structured content subgroup could have some content in august, but it's been an effort to get ramped up.
18:12:05 [sajkaj]
jstrickland: Hope to have something ...
18:12:16 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Suggest comments from January would be good
18:13:20 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Anyone else? For August? Will likely ask again!
18:14:07 [sajkaj]
ToddLibby: Notes AGWG reviewing Errors PR, is that August?
18:14:17 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We hope that's this next May heartbeat
18:14:42 [sajkaj]
jeanne: But, if there's significant additional work out of AGWG comments, then it would indeed be August
18:15:01 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Please do look at the WBS
18:15:47 [sajkaj]
ToddLibby: Notes desire to expand Errors membership
18:16:24 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We should remember to invite AGWG to join Errors on Tuesday call
18:16:47 [sajkaj]
SuzanneTaylor: Notes Childrens A11y CG started
18:17:29 [sajkaj]
SuzanneTaylor: Hopeful of good contrib for WCAG3
18:17:34 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Great news
18:18:44 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Suggest good place to start is in writing the user needs
18:19:05 [sajkaj]
SuzanneTaylor: It's part of the invite to join the CG. It will be our primary focus at first
18:19:21 [sajkaj]
SuzanneTaylor: We'll also look at research and research gaps
18:19:50 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Please let me know when you want to be on the Silver agenda!
18:20:09 [SuzanneTaylor]
https://www.w3.org/community/accessibility4children/
18:20:54 [Jan]
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18:20:56 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:20:56 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Survey to review EO scripts for new videos -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:21:00 [Jan]
present+ Jan
18:21:46 [sajkaj]
jeanne: This is a request from Education & Outreach WG; re new, short videos illustrating user needs, but also how to implement WCAG 2.x SC
18:22:02 [sajkaj]
jeanne: They're addressing in a way that will also apply to WCAG 3
18:22:17 [sajkaj]
jeanne: They're asking for review before incurring the expense of creating the profressional videos
18:22:28 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAGvideos_batch2thorough/
18:22:44 [johnkirkwood]
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18:22:51 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Please do review and advise if we should have a group discussion
18:23:04 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:23:04 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- W3C calendar app -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:23:27 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes W3C has a new Calendaring app in beta
18:23:28 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/blog/2021/03/group-calendaring-service-enters-beta-test/
18:23:50 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Available to every WG -- link to a page of that WG's meetings
18:24:01 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Gives each individual your "My Meetings"
18:24:07 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/users/myprofile/calendar
18:24:30 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Proposing to use this app now to send meeting invites
18:24:55 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes that it should work with most calendaring apps, e.g. Google, Outlook, etc
18:25:33 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes that "draft" mode doesn't sent notifications; but once out of that every edit results in another email
18:26:00 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Would be helpful to have subgroups in the calendar
18:26:48 [Chuck]
Janina: Is there a page for each sub-group? How would that work?
18:27:17 [Chuck]
Jeanne: If you open your own calendar, go to my calendar link, then you can say add an event. If you want to just have it go to the people in your sub-group, add individual email addresses.
18:27:31 [Chuck]
Jeanne: Or you can invite the entire silver list, but that's where there's a risk of spamming.
18:27:39 [Chuck]
Jeanne: But you would do it from your own calendar page.
18:27:53 [Chuck]
Janina: And I propose we be careful to prevent spamming.
18:28:23 [Chuck]
Jeanne: We would have all on Silver page. People in AGWG that we invite to a sub-group, all of these are on the calendar page, and individuals can select what they want.
18:28:34 [Chuck]
Janina: I like the notion of having all activity in one place.
18:29:04 [Chuck]
Jeanne: ...it's filled up my personal calendar, and I'd like to have it elsewhere.
18:29:37 [Chuck]
Janina: We might be able to use this at TPAC. Last year APA had a Google Calendar. Wondering if we can use this creatively for TPAC.
18:29:44 [Chuck]
Jeanne: Great idea!
18:30:32 [Chuck]
Jeanne: One more tip - if you put the url for the telecon info in the field for teleconf url, and a description for how to join, the telecon url doesn't get sent with the information. You need to include in "description".
18:30:39 [Chuck]
Janina: It's a beta.
18:30:56 [Chuck]
Jeanne: I'm going to suggest for usability. You can get it, but you have to hunt and know where it is.
18:31:26 [Chuck]
Janina: This has been very helpful for me. Did I understand that there's a description for every agenda element?
18:31:56 [Chuck]
Jeanne: No, for each meeting, there's an agenda tab. The first field is the url for the agenda, then a description where you can put in the agenda topics.
18:32:23 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:32:23 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Meeting schedule discussion -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:32:28 [Chuck]
Jeanne: I'll review with Janina outside of call to demonstrate the capabilities and features.
18:32:48 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes this our first Silver telecon in weeks
18:33:04 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Note we're still on Tuesday AGWG weekly, including next Tuesday June 1
18:33:39 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Current plan is this will be the ongoing weekly schema; AGWG Tuesday for at least an hour, then Silver Friday at 2PM Boston
18:33:55 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Question: Do we still want a separate Silver call Tuesdays?
18:34:02 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Or, just the AGWG call
18:34:11 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Interested in hearing about this
18:34:16 [Chuck]
q+
18:34:55 [sajkaj]
Chuck: It seems there will be Silver content for some weeks at least on AGWG Tuesday
18:35:47 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Modulo a WBS on the topic, expect AGWG at least the next 4 weeks
18:36:02 [sajkaj]
jeanne: And this Friday time will also continue
18:36:06 [Chuck]
ack Ch
18:36:13 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
18:36:13 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- ACT joint meeting followup proposal -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:37:09 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes work with Frances to followup from our joint ACT meetings past weeks
18:37:36 [sajkaj]
jeanne: One outcome is we need more definitions in outcomes
18:37:46 [sajkaj]
jeanne: But not agreement these should be "definitions"
18:38:04 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We need to use less ambiguous language, and make outcomes unambiguous
18:38:12 [jeanne]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vsp1V2hBpU6Y0vNt-AGP-Y6fOxx1-IjoKgBJ_3bPlfg/
18:38:45 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We're trying to keep plain lang in the main outcome
18:39:02 [sajkaj]
jeanne: But also a detail section where we need very precise language
18:39:44 [jstrickland]
Are y'all able to access that document?
18:39:53 [sajkaj]
jeanne: So we're struggling with the challenge between plain lang and unambiguous lang
18:39:55 [jstrickland]
I can't open it.
18:40:18 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Reads current work
18:40:30 [sajkaj]
s/work/work on headings/
18:41:17 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Recalls definition of headings available from HTML, ARIA, PDF, etc
18:41:46 [sajkaj]
jeanne: ACT agreed to try to create technology neutral outcome testing
18:42:13 [Chuck]
q+
18:42:14 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Also, exceptions requested to be outcome level
18:43:21 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes this is work in progress and feedback welcome
18:44:52 [sajkaj]
jeanne: ACT suggested exceptions should be normative and at outcome level
18:45:19 [sajkaj]
jeanne: ACT would like to fully integrate into WCAG rather than keeping their own repository
18:45:57 [sajkaj]
jeanne: ACT also wants all examples included, all are needed because they're edge cases people need to know about
18:46:30 [jeanne]
ack Chuck
18:46:50 [sajkaj]
Chuck: Asks about exceptions in outcomes ...
18:47:04 [sajkaj]
Chuck: See some challenge there, though not opposed
18:47:19 [sajkaj]
Chuck: Concerned about burgeoning detail in outcomes
18:47:35 [sajkaj]
jeanne: perhaps an accordian of the details
18:47:56 [sajkaj]
jeanne: so plain lang in the summary, then open accordian for specificity
18:48:11 [sajkaj]
jeanne: thinks this will be a very usable model in may locations
18:48:20 [Chuck]
+1 to attempting this!
18:48:40 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes the people who need the details are important but few
18:49:00 [sajkaj]
jeanne: nevertheless important to have details for them that need it
18:49:47 [jeanne]
Method Proposal <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/19FaJF_9V1CayeO92OiPpUil9USOTJWOPLdfgcOIJ6Fw/
18:49:49 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Turning to method ...
18:50:10 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Will make each method tech specific, ACT agrees
18:51:00 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Discusses organization of this in the Google Doc ...
18:52:06 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Discussion of what goes into summary; could have why? and What to do
18:52:32 [Jan]
Is this draft method template supposed to replace the old template? Do you want us to use this for new Silver guidelines?
18:53:15 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Notes ACT uses applicability section to reach required specificity
18:54:19 [sajkaj]
q?
18:54:57 [sajkaj]
jan: Asks whether we should start using this new template?
18:55:11 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Not yet, still working on it and need review and general approval
18:56:03 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Rather than tests, we will write expectations
18:56:29 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Allows people to test anyway they need, but the results could still meet specified expectations
18:56:51 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We will also try to write a rule with multiple ACT tests -- which isn't easy
18:57:31 [sajkaj]
jeanne: We'll see how it works
18:58:41 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Comments? Questions
18:58:43 [sajkaj]
[crickets]
18:58:50 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Anyone like to help?
18:59:15 [Jan]
The cognitive subgroup would like to be included in that meeting
19:00:09 [Rain]
That is Lisa and me (Rain)
19:00:12 [sajkaj]
jan: Requests for COGA involvement, including scheduling
19:00:14 [sajkaj]
jeanne: OK
19:01:16 [sajkaj]
jeanne: Next for us is Tuesday AGWG
19:01:18 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:01:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html jeanne
19:01:19 [sajkaj]
zakim, bye
19:01:19 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jeanne, sajkaj, Francis_Storr, Chuck, Rain, jstrickland, ToddLibby, Laura_Carlson, SuzanneTaylor, JF, Jan
19:01:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #silver
19:01:23 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:01:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/28-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
19:01:41 [ToddLibby]
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