13:02:17 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 13:02:17 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/27-sdw-irc 13:02:18 present+ ScottSimmons 13:02:19 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:02:20 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ted 13:02:32 jtandy has joined #sdw 13:02:42 brinkwoman has joined #sdw 13:03:24 Present+ Ted, Linda, Jeremy, Chris, Clara, Bill, Ulf, Rob 13:03:32 Present+ PeterR 13:03:54 Present+ Josh 13:04:02 present+ jtandy 13:04:55 jvanulde has joined #sdw 13:05:55 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2021May/0045.html 13:06:02 Chair: Linda, Jeremy 13:06:05 Scribe: Ted 13:06:07 scribenick: ted 13:06:20 Topic: Intros 13:06:29 Jeremy: anything besides the agenda? 13:06:51 Linda: expecting Responsible Use of Spatial Data publication soon 13:07:08 Topic: Range-14 / HTTP redirect discussion 13:07:43 Josh: want to discuss what Range-14 means in reality, adapt for disaster pilot and keeping public informed through search engines 13:07:55 [Josh presenting] 13:07:58 @@slides 13:08:28 Josh: HTTP request takes information representation/resource 13:09:09 q? 13:09:18 ... you can receive a 303 redirect and response that it isn't the physical resource but description 13:09:30 ... since it is not an actual representation of the physical resource 13:10:05 ... there are a number of problems with that. this solution is a hack, compromise that seems to have been struck by Tim Berners-Lee to end a debate 13:11:47 ... this 303 redirect is used in many places, if you are doing an 'other' what are you doing an other to 13:12:40 [(S)ELFIE and Navigation resources] 13:13:28 Josh: GLN number and registered resources act as a switchboard, needs to be maintained including defining types of relations to the physical resource 13:13:44 ... why do this? why not just use the navigation resource uri? 13:14:50 ... what is the definition of a thing? an asset of the physical world could have state, description or other attributes 13:15:25 ... typically people look up a name for a resource but that can be ambiguous or not link to the thing itself 13:16:09 ... OGC disaster pilot 2021 is creating an ecosystem about location and occurrence of disasters, impacts etc 13:16:22 ... goal is to make information available to public in a timely manner 13:16:41 ... unique identifier for a feature is required 13:16:59 [Feeding the search engines] 13:17:56 Josh: you want top ranked resource available with pertinent and authoritative information 13:18:26 [JSON-LD structured data example] 13:19:00 Josh: I know what a given page is about from the JSON-LD and can put details in search results themselves 13:19:32 present+ RobA 13:20:07 RobA: there are basically two questions 13:20:11 @@slides2 13:20:28 [Rob presents] 13:20:53 "Are we talking about the same thing?" and @@2 13:21:48 s/@@2/"or is this just a representation?" 13:22:37 RobA: depends if there is actual connectivity, what information is exposed 13:23:11 ... there are a few things happening under the hood, do we proxy or redirect? 13:24:12 ... what does a context document describe using JSON-LD, what does it look like in OWL? 13:24:35 ... all of that can be handled by content negotiation or profile using mime types 13:25:04 [Ted thinks we need context negotiation] 13:25:39 Josh: HTTP 303 - best of a bad bunch of options 13:25:54 ... reality is there can be a bunch of different resources about a thing 13:26:30 ... any API will need canonical view capabilities 13:27:00 ... beauty of the W3C approach is it is possible to have a URI have information about what it means 13:27:11 q? 13:27:34 ... support easy on client, complexity on server 13:27:58 ... server might want to promote a format 13:28:21 ... onus should be on the server 13:28:46 ... anybody can say anything about an object 13:29:22 ... an open challenge is after you redirect, you don't have the original uri. typically not kept by browser 13:29:43 ... we need to discourage clients from storing unstable links 13:29:56 [caching directives?] 13:30:02 q? 13:30:42 Jeremy: I want to focus discussion on what we need to work on 13:31:07 ... is there interest in pushing this forward, what should we do and what is the proper venue? 13:31:38 ... Josh was in favor of a switchboard resource, I heard registration of resources 13:31:50 ... content negotiation another pie of the pie 13:32:03 q? 13:32:09 q+ 13:32:12 RobSmith has joined #sdw 13:32:15 q+ 13:32:17 ack billroberts 13:32:40 present+ RobSmith 13:33:02 Bill: my immediate feel is this is a can of worms, that we may spend considerable time without making a meaningful difference 13:33:21 ... does a new HTTP status code help... how do we help clients understand machine readable data? 13:33:32 cperey has joined #sdw 13:33:41 ... there are few clients capable of processing more complex content types 13:34:30 ... we could have a schema.org predicate that would let search engines better understand the resource 13:34:35 q? 13:34:43 ... there are likely other mechanisms to do so 13:34:48 roba has joined #sdw 13:35:00 ... I would start with trying to leverage existing mechanisms 13:35:28 Rob: I agree we should not implement something new unless we have to 13:35:40 ... similarly skeptical about a new status code 13:35:55 ... hypothesis is do we need to do anything at all? 13:36:29 ... it might be useful to systematically test that hypothesis, see if there are circumstances we can do something better 13:36:58 * yep 13:37:36 ... you can embed equivalent meaning. an ad-hoc resources page may be more useful than a canonical version 13:37:37 q- 13:38:20 Jeremy: we are just at the starting point of a useful discussion but have time constraints 13:38:37 ... what I propose is we capture information from Rob and Josh and steer conversation to github 13:38:39 thanks Rob - I'll try to formulate my thoughts more coherently and discuss further outside of the meeting 13:38:48 on a GH issue sounds like a good option 13:39:30 q? 13:39:39 Topic: Geofencing 13:39:48 https://www.ansi.org/standards-coordination/collaboratives-activities/unmanned-aircraft-systems-collaborative 13:40:13 Scott: at OGC we have looked at ANSI effort around geofencing 13:40:39 ... there is a collaborative around it. we have lots of experiences around geofences 13:41:09 ... we look at these geofences from different perspectives: what is its function, how do you define it and what do you do when you encounter one 13:41:30 ... re 1 they are usually including or excluding 13:41:52 ... example could be ankle monitors for conditioned release (awaiting trial) 13:42:00 ... no fly zones... etc 13:42:18 s/including/inclusionary/ 13:42:28 s/excluding/exclusionary/ 13:42:55 ... re 2 representations can be complicated and three dimensional 13:43:17 ... you can have radius around a point, polygons, corridors 13:43:36 ... geofence around Kennedy space center differs when they are preparing for a launch 13:43:45 ... temporal extents matter 13:44:04 ... fence could be following a moving object 13:44:18 ... it gets really complicated quickly 13:45:10 ... last aspect we have been considering is the behavior: what happens when you encounter the fence? what can you do or are other actions necessary 13:45:33 ... could be a command an control issue 13:45:49 ... or merely noting entry or exit 13:46:28 ... one is line of sight for drones - how do you describe that in an operational fence with various obstructions (eg trees) 13:47:02 ... conclusion we've come to with ANSI to date is we have appropriate suite of standards and knowledge, what we lack is ways to have relatively simple set of rules for behavior 13:47:14 ... this is centered more on aircraft 13:47:51 scribe+ brinkwoman 13:48:36 ted: from automotive context a geofence concept is useful 13:48:44 ... there are privacy considerations 13:48:58 ...would be helpful to share insights 13:49:21 ... some people in auto group are doing geofences 13:49:35 https://github.com/hardillb/node-red-node-geofence 13:49:48 ... prototyping, moving into production, using an open source library 13:50:16 ... polygons, circles are easy to represent 13:50:38 ... have behaviour rules based on use cases, agree with Scott that would be useful to represent 13:51:02 ... ideally, keep it simple (polygon, circle) 13:51:17 ... a lot of fences will follow geographic boundaries, rivers etc. 13:51:28 q+ 13:52:02 ack PeterR 13:52:20 Peter: idea of a geofence is a specialization of simple features model in the keeping it simple vein 13:52:29 ... we are doing so in Maps4HTML 13:52:39 ... web has no native method for representing them 13:52:57 Christine: we have done lots of use cases in AR with geofencing examples 13:53:21 ... echo what Scott said, more important of what happens when you encounter a fence than the representation of it 13:53:56 ... the user is typically alerted, secondary to authoritative entity when appropriate 13:54:53 Jeremy: this sounds like a great topic for Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices and @@3 13:55:55 Clara: need to figure out where to include in the document, seems like a mature, substantive topic than identifying a gap 13:56:24 Topic: Maps4HTML 13:56:35 Peter: I can defer due to time constraint until next month 13:56:41 Topic: Best Practices update 13:57:17 Clara: we have had a couple of meetings, they have come up with some good suggestions. main thing is making the content more accessible, examples easier to understand 13:57:36 ... we want to include ethics, drawing from Ed's work. interest in updating API section 13:57:47 s/@@3/developing a mechanism for connecting behavioural elements to the definition of the geofence/ 13:57:57 ... we are looking for update from Chris on CRS ontologies, understanding how mature they are 13:59:04 ... there are specific examples to update around JSON-LD, schema.org etc 13:59:13 ... we are looking at what to get from implementation reports 13:59:22 * will do ted 13:59:25 will do - send slides and send notes re FAIR to Clara 13:59:44 Present+ Joost, Enrique 14:00:00 Jeremy: when is your next meeting so you can plug it? 14:00:08 Clara: start of next week, will share with the group 14:00:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/27-sdw-minutes.html ted 14:00:29 Jeremy: you looking for more help? 14:00:46 Clara: welcome more participants and we will also be reaching out for specific expertise 14:01:00 Jeremy: please share any notes with the mailing list 14:01:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:01:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/27-sdw-minutes.html ted 14:01:19 q? 14:01:26 q+ 14:01:57 Jeremy: thanks all, sorry for the crunch. these are meant as conversation starters, please look to mailing list and github issues 14:01:59 ack brinkwoman 14:01:59 https://www.w3.org/TR/responsible-use-spatial/ 14:02:23 Linda: I see Responsible use of Spatial Data note has been updated 14:02:31 ... congratulations to the editors 14:02:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/27-sdw-minutes.html ted 15:21:47 josephabhayaratna has joined #sdw 15:30:51 ewulff has joined #sdw 16:19:14 Zakim has left #sdw