IRC log of rqtf on 2021-05-19

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12:43:50 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/19-rqtf-irc
12:43:52 [trackbot]
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12:43:55 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:43:55 [trackbot]
Date: 19 May 2021
12:44:10 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Introductions.
12:44:17 [jasonjgw]
zakim, clear agenda
12:44:17 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
12:44:23 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Introductions.
12:44:58 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities.
12:45:21 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities.
12:45:38 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Issues of joint interest.
12:46:11 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Actions to take and coordination of future work.
12:46:17 [jasonjgw]
zakim, list agenda
12:46:17 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
12:46:18 [Zakim]
1. Introductions. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 [Zakim]
2. Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 [Zakim]
3. Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 [Zakim]
4. Issues of joint interest. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 [Zakim]
5. Actions to take and coordination of future work. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:37 [Judy]
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12:46:42 [jasonjgw]
chair: jasonjgw
12:46:45 [jasonjgw]
present+
12:57:36 [scott_h]
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12:57:47 [Joshue108]
present+
12:58:29 [Judy]
Judy has joined #rqtf
13:01:54 [JPaton]
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present+ John_Paton
13:04:11 [Joshue108]
scribe: joconnor
13:05:09 [Joshue108]
<Judy works on logistics with captioning>
13:06:02 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:06:02 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Introductions. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:06:08 [SteveNoble]
SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
13:06:09 [Joshue108]
JB: Over to Jason
13:06:19 [SteveNoble]
present+
13:06:57 [scott_h]
present+
13:07:10 [Joshue108]
<Judy suggests people raise hand in Zoom>
13:07:33 [Joshue108]
JS: Works on phone, I'm scribing also.
13:08:11 [Joshue108]
JW: Judys efforts on planning and logistics are appreciated
13:08:27 [Joshue108]
<Jason gives intro and overview>
13:08:58 [becky]
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13:08:58 [Joshue108]
<Identifies issues of joint interest - XR etc>
13:09:35 [Joshue108]
JS: <Welcomes all and gives intro>
13:10:10 [Joshue108]
Glad that there is an active community of deaf folks at W3C
13:10:23 [Joshue108]
Great to have more direct interaction.
13:10:51 [Joshue108]
APA is the W3C group that works on overseeing accessibility at W3C
13:11:33 [Joshue108]
JB: Mentions the current group is ~ 20.
13:12:42 [Joshue108]
Wendy D: Hello, this is Wendy. I work at RIT - one of the deaf community research members
13:12:51 [Joshue108]
JOC: <Gives intro>
13:12:58 [Joshue108]
SH: <Gives Intro>
13:13:15 [Joshue108]
<Wont list anymore intros..>
13:15:50 [janina]
present+
13:16:52 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:16:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:18:10 [Joshue108]
JW: We want to here provide overview of the RQTF work that would be of interest to the Immersive Captions community group
13:18:29 [Joshue108]
JW: I'd like to mention the RTC Accessibility User Requirements doc.
13:18:43 [Joshue108]
It has recieved wide review and is soon to be published
13:19:14 [Joshue108]
It addresses a range of issues of interest to the CG
13:19:30 [Joshue108]
https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/74f3a865bc80548eb45add85f2c2561db23c0c60/raur/index.html
13:19:41 [Joshue108]
There is also the XR A11y User Requirements doc
13:19:48 [Joshue108]
https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/6d5bf713d9d7c65ecda104c213ad47b0e98cfbe1/xaur/index.html
13:20:26 [Joshue108]
Another document is the Natural Language A11y User Requirements
13:20:52 [Joshue108]
Used for UIs that have natural language UIs - speech, and text input - Natural Language
13:21:15 [Joshue108]
Currently in an earlier stage of development - it would be of interest to Immersive Captions CG for feedback
13:21:36 [SuzanneTaylor]
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13:21:47 [Joshue108]
The RQTF is currently also looking at Media Synchonisation issues around, audio and video - captions and textual descriptions
13:22:20 [Joshue108]
The impetus is from common interest accross groups to achieve sync of various forms of media
13:22:32 [Joshue108]
Steve Noble and Scott H are working a lot on this.
13:22:42 [Joshue108]
May become more formal publication soon.
13:22:50 [Joshue108]
They are the main activities
13:23:16 [Joshue108]
JS: You did good!
13:23:22 [Joshue108]
JS: Questions?
13:23:24 [Joshue108]
q?
13:23:44 [Joshue108]
agenda?
13:24:15 [Joshue108]
WD: Can we post something in the chat?
13:24:30 [Joshue108]
q?
13:24:47 [Joshue108]
JB: Which link?
13:25:12 [Joshue108]
WD: XAUR?
13:26:19 [Joshue108]
JOC: Those links are all on that master page
13:26:35 [Joshue108]
JS: Note that the RAUR URI will change as it is being published tomorrow
13:26:49 [Joshue108]
JW: I will update wiki page tomorrow
13:27:14 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:27:14 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:27:36 [Joshue108]
JS: Can anyone provide summary?
13:27:46 [Joshue108]
JB: Q from Wendy..
13:28:13 [Joshue108]
WD: When you use the word user, it is a person that uses something. What about other different kinds of authority?
13:28:17 [Joshue108]
A host etc?
13:28:18 [janina]
q+
13:28:33 [Joshue108]
WD: What is others are managing technology for their own use?
13:28:40 [Joshue108]
ack jan
13:28:51 [Joshue108]
JS: That is a good question Wendy
13:29:06 [Joshue108]
A host is a just a user playing a different role, or performing a function.
13:29:35 [Joshue108]
We may describe requirements for participation but we dont want to overlook any roles that may need to be fullfilled.
13:29:49 [Joshue108]
We intend to cover all the roles a user may have.
13:29:54 [Joshue108]
q?
13:30:23 [Joshue108]
JW: The RQTF is also developing a doc on Remote meetings and hybrid meetings.
13:30:43 [Joshue108]
RAUR addresses particular technology parts of the stack - and this new one is a higher level overview
13:30:46 [janina]
ack janina
13:31:13 [Joshue108]
JW: Update on IC group activity.
13:31:24 [Joshue108]
JB: We've not prearranged this.
13:31:45 [Joshue108]
<Mentions maybe Wendy or Chris H could give overview>
13:32:10 [Joshue108]
WD: I think Chris - could you walk thru the platforms?
13:32:18 [Joshue108]
CH: You mean our prototypes?
13:32:54 [Joshue108]
CH: In our group we are interested in how users use captions in 360 - as well as XR at some stage
13:33:09 [Joshue108]
We are looking at video using headmounted displays
13:33:26 [Joshue108]
Once we have worked out 360 we will look at Immersive Environments etc
13:33:41 [Joshue108]
Our group is passionate about the topic
13:34:08 [Joshue108]
We found existing advise to be lacking, not interested in default solutions and there are more interesting things we can do.
13:34:39 [Joshue108]
I've been building JavaScript implementations of our ideas
13:34:45 [Joshue108]
Allows us to experiment
13:35:01 [Joshue108]
<Shares link to prototype>
13:35:06 [Joshue108]
https://www.chxr.org/immersive_subs2_5/?pn=Barbershop
13:35:49 [Joshue108]
We are building tools with interesting parameters
13:36:26 [Joshue108]
It is a HTML and JS implementation, no fancy UI but useful as a POC.
13:36:51 [Joshue108]
As a group we want to be proactive about building stuff
13:37:16 [Joshue108]
WD: In that 360 view the sound varies..
13:38:12 [Joshue108]
<Wendy gives overview of user preferences for placing captions etc>
13:38:39 [Joshue108]
WD: Some people with hearing can identify things by sound..
13:39:16 [Joshue108]
For deaf people, we have annotations that are built and added at the beginning, so the deaf user can identify characters as they move through the game.
13:39:25 [Joshue108]
We also have directional q's
13:39:45 [Joshue108]
WD: Frances?
13:39:58 [Joshue108]
FB: Chris's prototype is amazing..
13:40:22 [Joshue108]
Also Wendy worked on things that show speed variability for users
13:40:32 [Joshue108]
So these options are really important.
13:40:59 [Joshue108]
We have started to draft high level requirements etc, that we can make available.
13:41:11 [Joshue108]
Like, understanding who is speaking..
13:41:54 [Joshue108]
There are different perceptions - we need to make sure when we fix one problem, we dont cause others.
13:42:14 [Joshue108]
Lots of energy in the group.
13:42:36 [Joshue108]
JW: That was very helpful
13:43:02 [Joshue108]
WD: I've another comment - yes, it is on a case by case video..
13:43:21 [Joshue108]
For example if people are talking fast, they may want to use a screen etc
13:43:36 [Joshue108]
Options are good, transcript or captioning etc
13:43:44 [Joshue108]
And they need to be able to make a choice.
13:43:53 [Joshue108]
Also curved captions are v helpful
13:44:23 [Joshue108]
Like Frances was saying speed is critical - slowing audio down can cause issues..
13:44:42 [Joshue108]
Or looking up - if people switch positions, captions need to follow etc
13:44:47 [Joshue108]
q?
13:46:01 [Joshue108]
JB: We should talk about XAUR, and Bill Curtis would like to mention something
13:46:16 [Joshue108]
agenda?
13:47:01 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:47:01 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Issues of joint interest. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:47:37 [janina]
scribe: janina
13:47:40 [Joshue108]
JW: Josh, to discuss XAUR things
13:48:31 [janina]
jo: Appreciates feedback from Wendy and others in the CG on our XAUR work. Some questions ...
13:48:42 [janina]
jo: Should we be discussing signing avatars?
13:48:55 [janina]
jo: Might there be some contexts where they're acceptable?
13:49:31 [janina]
jo: Wondering about associated situations ...
13:49:51 [janina]
wendy: Depends on the developer ...
13:50:17 [janina]
wendy: The language itself is important, but avatars don't have facial expression and may have artificial language semantics
13:50:41 [janina]
wendy: I've seen unacceptable and more acceptable avatars. Sometimes developers think they've got things right, but really don't
13:51:22 [janina]
WHO?
13:51:44 [janina]
Howard: right now not that great, 2d, too much missing data
13:51:58 [janina]
howard: recording a human signing would be better
13:52:15 [janina]
howard: ASL, where one has words in a specific grammatical order
13:52:31 [janina]
howard: asl might change that based on expression (facial), or vocal emphasis, etc
13:52:42 [janina]
howard: turning that into algo is not likely soon
13:53:17 [janina]
howard: ntid and gu have put effort into this -- but we're not yet there
13:53:45 [janina]
howard: Notes we appreciate having human interpretation on this call
13:54:02 [janina]
jo: Asks about the potential -- and it's an opportunity to discuss
13:55:15 [Joshue108]
WD: Maybe yeah, but right now - and as far as signing avatars go there are a group of people reviewing feedback etc
13:55:30 [Joshue108]
Howard: The problem is objective measurements for VR/XR
13:56:02 [Joshue108]
Based on current science we have live interpreter as is required
13:56:22 [Joshue108]
Currently WCAG mentions that automated captioning is not sufficient
13:56:45 [Joshue108]
We could mention that automated avatars are not sufficient, in a similar vein.
13:57:03 [Joshue108]
Some PIP, Picture in Picture is tiny
13:57:16 [Joshue108]
WFD, have guidelines for minimal size etc
13:57:28 [Joshue108]
25% ~
13:57:38 [Joshue108]
we suggest 33%
13:57:48 [Joshue108]
q?
13:58:20 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
13:58:20 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Actions to take and coordination of future work. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:58:57 [Joshue108]
JS: Can we co-ordinate further?
13:59:08 [Joshue108]
There can be a follow meet.
13:59:26 [Joshue108]
Future work on Natural Language Interfaces etc would be of use also
13:59:32 [Joshue108]
Suggestions on co-ordination?
13:59:51 [SuzanneTaylor]
+1 to more meetings like this; this was so helpful
14:01:03 [Joshue108]
JB: Poeple interested in follow up?
14:01:10 [Joshue108]
XR Access Symposium: bit.ly/xraccess21
14:02:05 [SuzanneTaylor]
(Notice also that Chris' prototype allows you to save a set of settings to share as a URL for further discussion.)
14:02:09 [Joshue108]
zakim, list attendees
14:02:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, Joshue, John_Paton, janina, scott_h, SteveNoble
14:02:16 [SuzanneTaylor]
present+
14:02:24 [Joshue108]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/19-rqtf-minutes.html Joshue108
14:07:06 [janina]
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