12:43:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rqtf
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12:43:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:43:55 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:43:55 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2021
12:44:10 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Introductions.
12:44:17 <jasonjgw> zakim, clear agenda
12:44:17 <Zakim> agenda cleared
12:44:23 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Introductions.
12:44:58 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities.
12:45:21 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities.
12:45:38 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Issues of joint interest.
12:46:11 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Actions to take and coordination of future work.
12:46:17 <jasonjgw> zakim, list agenda
12:46:17 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
12:46:18 <Zakim> 1. Introductions. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 <Zakim> 2. Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 <Zakim> 3. Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 <Zakim> 4. Issues of joint interest. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:18 <Zakim> 5. Actions to take and coordination of future work. [from jasonjgw]
12:46:37 <Judy> Judy has joined #rqtf
12:46:42 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
12:46:45 <jasonjgw> present+
12:57:36 <scott_h> scott_h has joined #rqtf
12:57:47 <Joshue108> present+
12:58:29 <Judy> Judy has joined #rqtf
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13:02:18 <JPaton> present+ John_Paton
13:04:11 <Joshue108> scribe: joconnor
13:05:09 <Joshue108> <Judy works on logistics with captioning>
13:06:02 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:06:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:06:08 <SteveNoble> SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
13:06:09 <Joshue108> JB: Over to Jason
13:06:19 <SteveNoble> present+
13:06:57 <scott_h> present+
13:07:10 <Joshue108> <Judy suggests people raise hand in Zoom>
13:07:33 <Joshue108> JS: Works on phone, I'm scribing also.
13:08:11 <Joshue108> JW: Judys efforts on planning and logistics are appreciated
13:08:27 <Joshue108> <Jason gives intro and overview>
13:08:58 <becky> becky has joined #rqtf
13:08:58 <Joshue108> <Identifies issues of joint interest - XR etc>
13:09:35 <Joshue108> JS: <Welcomes all and gives intro>
13:10:10 <Joshue108> Glad that there is an active community of deaf folks at W3C
13:10:23 <Joshue108> Great to have more direct interaction.
13:10:51 <Joshue108> APA is the W3C group that works on overseeing accessibility at W3C
13:11:33 <Joshue108> JB: Mentions the current group is ~ 20.
13:12:42 <Joshue108> Wendy D: Hello, this is Wendy. I work at RIT - one of the deaf community research members
13:12:51 <Joshue108> JOC: <Gives intro>
13:12:58 <Joshue108> SH: <Gives Intro>
13:13:15 <Joshue108> <Wont list anymore intros..>
13:15:50 <janina> present+
13:16:52 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:16:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Overview of current Research Questions Task Force activities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:18:10 <Joshue108> JW: We want to here provide overview of the RQTF work that would be of interest to the Immersive Captions community group
13:18:29 <Joshue108> JW: I'd like to mention the RTC Accessibility User Requirements doc.
13:18:43 <Joshue108> It has recieved wide review and is soon to be published
13:19:14 <Joshue108> It addresses a range of issues of interest to the CG
13:19:30 <Joshue108> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/74f3a865bc80548eb45add85f2c2561db23c0c60/raur/index.html
13:19:41 <Joshue108> There is also the XR A11y User Requirements doc
13:19:48 <Joshue108> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/6d5bf713d9d7c65ecda104c213ad47b0e98cfbe1/xaur/index.html
13:20:26 <Joshue108> Another document is the Natural Language A11y User Requirements
13:20:52 <Joshue108> Used for UIs that have natural language UIs - speech, and text input - Natural Language
13:21:15 <Joshue108> Currently in an earlier stage of development - it would be of interest to Immersive Captions CG for feedback
13:21:36 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #rqtf
13:21:47 <Joshue108> The RQTF is currently also looking at Media Synchonisation issues around, audio and video - captions and textual descriptions
13:22:20 <Joshue108> The impetus is from common interest accross groups to achieve sync of various forms of media
13:22:32 <Joshue108> Steve Noble and Scott H are working a lot on this.
13:22:42 <Joshue108> May become more formal publication soon.
13:22:50 <Joshue108> They are the main activities
13:23:16 <Joshue108> JS: You did good!
13:23:22 <Joshue108> JS: Questions?
13:23:24 <Joshue108> q?
13:23:44 <Joshue108> agenda?
13:24:15 <Joshue108> WD: Can we post something in the chat?
13:24:30 <Joshue108> q?
13:24:47 <Joshue108> JB: Which link?
13:25:12 <Joshue108> WD: XAUR?
13:26:19 <Joshue108> JOC: Those links are all on that master page
13:26:35 <Joshue108> JS: Note that the RAUR URI will change as it is being published tomorrow
13:26:49 <Joshue108> JW: I will update wiki page tomorrow
13:27:14 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:27:14 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Overview of Immersive Captions Community Group activities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:27:36 <Joshue108> JS: Can anyone provide summary?
13:27:46 <Joshue108> JB: Q from Wendy..
13:28:13 <Joshue108> WD: When you use the word user, it is a person that uses something. What about other different kinds of authority?
13:28:17 <Joshue108> A host etc?
13:28:18 <janina> q+
13:28:33 <Joshue108> WD: What is others are managing technology for their own use?
13:28:40 <Joshue108> ack jan
13:28:51 <Joshue108> JS: That is a good question Wendy
13:29:06 <Joshue108> A host is a just a user playing a different role, or performing a function.
13:29:35 <Joshue108> We may describe requirements for participation but we dont want to overlook any roles that may need to be fullfilled.
13:29:49 <Joshue108> We intend to cover all the roles a user may have.
13:29:54 <Joshue108> q?
13:30:23 <Joshue108> JW: The  RQTF is also developing a doc on Remote meetings and hybrid meetings.
13:30:43 <Joshue108> RAUR addresses particular technology parts of the stack - and this new one is a higher level overview
13:30:46 <janina> ack janina
13:31:13 <Joshue108> JW: Update on IC group activity.
13:31:24 <Joshue108> JB: We've not prearranged this.
13:31:45 <Joshue108> <Mentions maybe Wendy or Chris H could give overview>
13:32:10 <Joshue108> WD: I think Chris - could you walk thru the platforms?
13:32:18 <Joshue108> CH: You mean our prototypes?
13:32:54 <Joshue108> CH: In our group we are interested in how users use captions in 360 - as well as XR at some stage
13:33:09 <Joshue108> We are looking at video using headmounted displays
13:33:26 <Joshue108> Once we have worked out 360 we will look at Immersive Environments etc
13:33:41 <Joshue108> Our group is passionate about the topic
13:34:08 <Joshue108> We found existing advise to be lacking, not interested in default solutions and there are more interesting things we can do.
13:34:39 <Joshue108> I've been building JavaScript implementations of our ideas
13:34:45 <Joshue108> Allows us to experiment
13:35:01 <Joshue108> <Shares link to prototype>
13:35:06 <Joshue108> https://www.chxr.org/immersive_subs2_5/?pn=Barbershop
13:35:49 <Joshue108> We are building tools with interesting parameters
13:36:26 <Joshue108> It is a HTML and JS implementation, no fancy UI but useful as a POC.
13:36:51 <Joshue108> As a group we want to be proactive about building stuff
13:37:16 <Joshue108> WD: In that 360 view the sound varies..
13:38:12 <Joshue108> <Wendy gives overview of user preferences for placing captions etc>
13:38:39 <Joshue108> WD: Some people with hearing can identify things by sound..
13:39:16 <Joshue108> For deaf people, we have annotations that are built and added at the beginning, so the deaf user can identify characters as they move through the game.
13:39:25 <Joshue108> We also have directional q's
13:39:45 <Joshue108> WD: Frances?
13:39:58 <Joshue108> FB: Chris's prototype is amazing..
13:40:22 <Joshue108> Also Wendy worked on things that show speed variability for users
13:40:32 <Joshue108> So these options are really important.
13:40:59 <Joshue108> We have started to draft high level requirements etc, that we can make available.
13:41:11 <Joshue108> Like, understanding who is speaking..
13:41:54 <Joshue108> There are different perceptions - we need to make sure when we fix one problem, we dont cause others.
13:42:14 <Joshue108> Lots of energy in the group.
13:42:36 <Joshue108> JW: That was very helpful
13:43:02 <Joshue108> WD: I've another comment - yes, it is on a case by case video..
13:43:21 <Joshue108> For example if people are talking fast, they may want to use a screen etc
13:43:36 <Joshue108> Options are good, transcript or captioning etc
13:43:44 <Joshue108> And they need to be able to make a choice.
13:43:53 <Joshue108> Also curved captions are v helpful
13:44:23 <Joshue108> Like Frances was saying speed is critical - slowing audio down can cause issues..
13:44:42 <Joshue108> Or looking up - if people switch positions, captions need to follow etc
13:44:47 <Joshue108> q?
13:46:01 <Joshue108> JB: We should talk about XAUR, and Bill Curtis would like to mention something
13:46:16 <Joshue108> agenda?
13:47:01 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:47:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Issues of joint interest. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:47:37 <janina> scribe: janina
13:47:40 <Joshue108> JW: Josh, to discuss XAUR things
13:48:31 <janina> jo: Appreciates feedback from Wendy and others in the CG on our XAUR work. Some questions ...
13:48:42 <janina> jo: Should we be discussing signing avatars?
13:48:55 <janina> jo: Might there be some contexts where they're acceptable?
13:49:31 <janina> jo: Wondering about associated situations ...
13:49:51 <janina> wendy: Depends on the developer ...
13:50:17 <janina> wendy: The language itself is important, but avatars don't have facial expression and may have artificial language semantics
13:50:41 <janina> wendy: I've seen unacceptable and more acceptable avatars. Sometimes developers think they've got things right, but really don't
13:51:22 <janina> WHO?
13:51:44 <janina> Howard: right now not that great, 2d, too much missing data
13:51:58 <janina> howard: recording a human signing would be better
13:52:15 <janina> howard: ASL, where one has words in a specific grammatical order
13:52:31 <janina> howard: asl might change that based on expression (facial), or vocal emphasis, etc
13:52:42 <janina> howard: turning that into algo is not likely soon
13:53:17 <janina> howard: ntid and gu have put effort into this -- but we're not yet there
13:53:45 <janina> howard: Notes we appreciate having human interpretation on this call
13:54:02 <janina> jo: Asks about the potential -- and it's an opportunity to discuss
13:55:15 <Joshue108> WD: Maybe yeah, but right now - and as far as signing avatars go there are a group of people reviewing feedback etc
13:55:30 <Joshue108> Howard: The problem is objective measurements for VR/XR
13:56:02 <Joshue108> Based on current science we have live interpreter as is required
13:56:22 <Joshue108> Currently WCAG mentions that automated captioning is not sufficient
13:56:45 <Joshue108> We could mention that automated avatars are not sufficient, in a similar vein.
13:57:03 <Joshue108> Some PIP, Picture in Picture is tiny
13:57:16 <Joshue108> WFD, have guidelines for minimal size etc
13:57:28 <Joshue108> 25% ~
13:57:38 <Joshue108> we suggest 33%
13:57:48 <Joshue108> q?
13:58:20 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:58:20 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Actions to take and coordination of future work. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:58:57 <Joshue108> JS: Can we co-ordinate further?
13:59:08 <Joshue108> There can be a follow meet.
13:59:26 <Joshue108> Future work on Natural Language Interfaces etc would be of use also
13:59:32 <Joshue108> Suggestions on co-ordination?
13:59:51 <SuzanneTaylor> +1 to more meetings like this; this was so helpful
14:01:03 <Joshue108> JB: Poeple interested in follow up?
14:01:10 <Joshue108> XR Access Symposium: bit.ly/xraccess21
14:02:05 <SuzanneTaylor> (Notice also that Chris' prototype allows you to save a set of settings to share as a URL for further discussion.)
14:02:09 <Joshue108> zakim, list attendees
14:02:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, Joshue, John_Paton, janina, scott_h, SteveNoble
14:02:16 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
14:02:24 <Joshue108> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/19-rqtf-minutes.html Joshue108
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