13:54:19 RRSAgent has joined #me 13:54:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-me-irc 13:54:24 Zakim has joined #me 13:55:37 nigel has joined #me 13:59:21 meeting: MEIG Monthly meeting 13:59:35 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d4fe7be6-2c10-4314-990d-d912f2aa91b1 13:59:54 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Chris_Needham, John_Riviello 14:01:14 present+ Andreas_Tai 14:01:24 present+ Chris_Lorenzo 14:01:46 tidoust has joined #me 14:01:52 present+ Kazuhiro_Hoya 14:02:11 present+ Rob_Smith 14:02:33 atai has joined #me 14:03:13 present+ Francois_Daoust 14:05:10 RobSmith has joined #me 14:05:36 topic: Agenda 14:05:47 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2021Apr/0054.html Agenda 14:05:48 zacharycava has joined #me 14:06:05 Present+ Nigel_Megitt 14:06:16 present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:06:26 present+ Zachary_Cava 14:06:48 topic: Chartering update 14:06:53 igarashi_ has joined #me 14:07:12 cpn: Welcome Chris Lorenzo from Comcast as new MEIG co-Chair 14:07:15 JohnRiv has joined #me 14:07:27 ... thank your Pierre for his contributions 14:07:38 cl: (gives introductions) 14:08:04 ... exciting to join W3C 14:08:26 ... thanks to have me here! 14:08:35 cpn: great to have you here! 14:09:06 ... also I've become Media WG co-Chair in addition to MEIG 14:09:22 rrsagent, make log public 14:09:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:09:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-me-minutes.html kaz 14:09:55 zakim, who is on the call? 14:09:55 Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Chris_Needham, John_Riviello, Andreas_Tai, Chris_Lorenzo, Kazuhiro_Hoya, Rob_Smith, Francois_Daoust, Nigel_Megitt, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Zachary_Cava 14:10:11 ... want to mention two workshops Pierre is involved 14:10:23 ... wide color gamut and high dynamic range for the web 14:10:36 ... and professional media production on the web 14:10:44 ... more details tbd 14:11:38 topic: Rechartering 14:11:47 cpn: AC review ongoing and closes on May-28 14:11:53 ... 9 responses so far 14:12:01 ... great to have your companies review 14:12:42 present+ Takio_Yamaoka 14:12:53 topic: Multicast receiver API 14:13:01 cpn: discussion during the previous call 14:13:59 ... number of open questions there 14:14:18 ... based on the WebRTC frame model? 14:14:44 ... had a followup meeting with the Chairs and the Team on Apr-30 14:15:12 ... the main question is trying to gather people interested 14:15:27 ... how to get particular participants? 14:15:40 ... for use cases and technical discussions 14:15:50 kazho has joined #me 14:15:56 ... does anybody have any thought? 14:16:38 ... seems to me there is interest in media use cases for live media streaming and large downloads 14:17:14 ... what we would do is working with Jake to create a dedicated CG for further discussion 14:17:36 ... any thoughts or questions? 14:17:37 Actually some Japanese Broadcasters have the sort of idea. I'll talk to them. 14:18:08 iga: would like to understand the use cases to achieve this proposed API 14:18:21 ... which part to be standardized by IETF, etc. 14:18:29 q? 14:18:31 q+ 14:18:44 cpn: most of the work is related to the protocol level 14:18:58 ... and there are two parts for us, W3C 14:19:21 ... 1. understand the use cases, security concerns, etc. 14:19:51 ... 2. how the API to be integrated for live streaming, etc. 14:20:09 chair: Needham, Igarashi, Lorenzo 14:20:38 iga: one of the concerns might be other kind of deployment issue for multicast, e.g., due to the home routers 14:21:00 ... most routers in Japan don't support multicast capability 14:21:26 ... so wanted to ask which part to be handled by IETF 14:21:37 cpn: good question 14:21:43 ... can't tell that at the moment 14:22:16 ... once the potential CG is created, that is a good place to have the discussion about that as well 14:22:33 iga: also we should look into the applicability 14:23:08 ... for example, wondering about the Comcast router in US 14:23:16 cpn: thanks 14:23:19 ... useful input 14:23:41 ... the other aspect is that Jake is kind of new to W3C, and needs help from our side 14:24:06 ... this is a new are 14:24:09 q? 14:24:36 iga: do you know any approach related to multicast in US? 14:24:50 cl: could reach out people in US 14:24:55 ... there are some in UK as well 14:25:27 ... issues on streaming and network conjunction, etc. 14:25:30 cpn: yeah 14:25:42 ... some of the developers interested in UK as well 14:26:06 iga: some of the JP vendors provide a bit different kind of router for that purpose 14:26:19 cpn: yeah, that's one of the points of Jake 14:26:25 ... to make it more generic 14:26:28 Chris_Lorenzo has joined #me 14:26:42 ... will look into the proposed CG 14:26:47 cpn: yes, please do so 14:27:45 kaz: @@@ 14:27:58 Sorry, my PC can not detect any mic devices 14:28:22 kazho: Actually some Japanese Broadcasters have the sort of idea. I'll talk to them. 14:28:31 q? 14:28:34 ack k 14:28:35 s/@@@/We should look at use case and requirements, also see which parts of the work belong in W3C and which in IETF 14:28:57 topic: Media Timed Events 14:29:11 cpn: our work on the Media Timed Events 14:29:17 ... also the discussion within the TTWG 14:29:30 ... e.g., unbounded cues in WebVTT 14:29:58 ... would gather technical use cases and requirements 14:30:17 ... for unbounded cues in WebVTT 14:30:36 ... possible changes to HTML, etc. 14:30:44 ... some questions raised 14:30:58 ... WebVTT syntax for unbounded cues to be defined 14:31:38 ... web vide mapping proposed by Rob has some syntax 14:32:20 ... and processing model for updating the unbounded cues 14:32:40 s/WebVTT syn/1. WebVTT syn/ 14:32:49 s/and pro/2. Pro/ 14:33:03 ... suggestion from the TTWG was having concrete technical use cases 14:33:23 ... further discussion based on good understandings 14:33:32 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t_zgecSfiw_mNWkruAsZdzuUVxcLLS-BzrDnJdPkNUI/edit# 14:33:39 cpn: what I've been doing is creating a document above 14:34:21 ... would like to get initial feedback on the document itself 14:34:36 ... some background discussion first 14:35:07 ... including the discussion with the Timed Text group 14:35:36 ... consolidating the use cases here 14:35:42 ... please let me know if anything is missing 14:36:23 ... the use cases include one about sports score updates 14:36:38 ... cue value is a JSON object 14:36:54 ... the starting time is "0" 14:37:09 ... and the 2nd use case is about subtitles 14:37:20 ... which includes two sub cases 14:37:39 ... a. segmented WebVTT files 14:37:55 ... and b. WebVTT carried in fragmented MP4 14:38:35 ... my question here is if those use cases are valid 14:38:37 q+ 14:38:41 q+ 14:38:48 ... also any other use cases to be added? 14:39:14 ... those are high-level use cases 14:39:18 ack n 14:39:23 nigel: great to see this 14:40:27 ... the main point is if the use cases make the changes which require implementation changes of WebVTT 14:40:57 ... updating the cue is possible for JS 14:41:11 ... how to change the end time is the key 14:41:19 ... given the such a different API 14:41:45 ... is anybody going to implement the possible new API? 14:42:00 ... we should not leave out any other cases in people's mind 14:42:33 ... whether the possible new syntax would be useful to WebVTT or not 14:42:50 ... we should consider that point when we generate use cases 14:42:53 cpn: thanks 14:43:02 ack r 14:43:57 rob: unbounded cues are very complicated 14:44:10 s/complicated/common use case in WebVMT/ 14:44:37 scribenick: cpn 14:44:49 Rob: Problem: how to represent in WebVTT? 14:45:08 ... If you want to create a cue, do so without end time, common in live media 14:45:34 ... Sports score is an example. I proposed that as a text example, rather than JSON. Update it during a live event 14:45:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:45:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-me-minutes.html kaz 14:46:09 i/Welcome Chris/scribenick: kaz/ 14:46:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:46:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-me-minutes.html kaz 14:46:14 ... Don't know how long the cue will need to be, as it's a live event 14:46:30 ... Proposals in WebVTT issue 496 to address in a safe and elegant way 14:47:28 ... I can see two families of use cases: one is like chapters, where it starts but you don't know how long it lasts 14:47:40 ... The other is a daisy-chain where you have a metadata or text value, and the value is updated repeatedly during the duration of the media 14:48:05 ... The subtitle containing the score persists throughout the match, then it updates 14:48:36 ... Interested in feedback in other use cases 14:49:14 ... To Nigel's point on other changes that could be made to link the VTT to the JS API, I'm interested to know what those are 14:49:35 i|I can see|-> https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/496 WebVTT use Cases 496| 14:49:38 ... The JS API allows many things to change 14:50:09 ... The current changes are limited in scope. Creating an unbounded cue and later setting it it equivalent to the VTTCue constructor 14:50:29 q? 14:50:46 cpn: had kind of similar question 14:51:14 ... is parity of JS design goal of WebVTT change? 14:51:27 ... JS can change the cue to any time 14:51:33 q+ 14:52:05 ... how to handle it in a compatible way? 14:52:17 ... don't think we have the answer today, though 14:52:17 q- 14:52:30 +1 to it being a useful starting point! 14:53:21 cpn: thinking about the use cases and requirements should be a useful starting point (shows the potential requirements) 14:53:34 i/had kind/scribenick: kaz/ 14:53:37 q? 14:54:17 rob: yes, it's useful exercise 14:54:35 cpn: what I'm thinking is turning into a mark down 14:54:43 ... and put it into a GitHub repo 14:54:56 ... so that we can update it using GitHub Pullrequests 14:55:06 ... to do that, need to decide our home repo 14:55:13 ... guess our meig repo 14:55:18 ... happy to do that 14:55:38 ... and then people are encouraged to make contributions 14:56:16 ... does that sound reasonable? 14:56:23 +1 to MD in MEIG repo 14:56:34 +1 14:56:48 kaz: +1 14:57:11 cpn: this is under the MTE discussion anyway 14:57:48 ... the next meeting will be on Monday, May 17 14:57:59 s/meeting/meeting of the MTE TF/ 14:58:46 ... will put it on the MEIG's GitHub repo 15:00:42 ... and let's flesh out the use case description 15:00:58 ... any other business for today? 15:01:07 (none) 15:01:18 cpn: our next MEIG meeting will be June 1 15:01:28 ... that's 3 weeks away 15:01:38 ... no specific topics yet 15:01:57 ... please let me know if you have any specific topics in your mind 15:02:14 i/any other/topic: AOB and next MEIG call/ 15:02:18 [adjourned] 15:02:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:02:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-me-minutes.html kaz 15:18:52 tidoust_ has joined #me 17:06:52 Zakim has left #me