IRC log of ixml on 2021-05-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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Meeting: IXML Community Group Teleconference
13:31:06 [Steven]
Date: 11 May 2021
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Chair: Steven
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14:03:34 [Steven]
Present: Steven, Aleksei, Tomos, John
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Topic: Previous Actions
14:04:23 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to research where to put S for attributes.
14:04:23 [Steven]
ACTION: Michael to comment on conformance section of new draft
14:04:23 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
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Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:04:47 [Steven]
Steven: My action continues
14:04:55 [Steven]
Steven: Michael's is done
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... on the agenda
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Topic: New draft
14:05:25 [Steven]
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14:05:36 [Steven]
Steven: Do want to discuss?
14:05:40 [cmsmcq]
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14:05:57 [Steven]
... or should I just add to spec
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14:06:21 [yamahito]
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14:07:32 [Steven]
MIchael: As questions arise please ask.
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ACTION: Steven to apply Michael's text to spec
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Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:08:56 [Steven]
Michael: Are people happy with the suggestion of giving a choice about which tree gets returned for ambiguity.
14:09:04 [Steven]
... I want to do that.
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... I would rather it be conformant
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Steven: Processors may on user option return more than one
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[General agreement]
14:10:38 [Steven]
John: How about distinguishing when there are several?
14:10:44 [Steven]
Steven: Already there.
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... attribute
14:11:23 [Steven]
Tomos: Can we make that optional?
14:11:35 [Steven]
Michael: it is only an attribute
14:12:02 [Steven]
Steven: In the ixml namespace
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Tomos: Can we make it optionally switchable?
14:12:43 [Steven]
Michael: I am uneasy, but if it is a user option...
14:13:11 [Steven]
Tomos: It isn't required, but implementers can decide to make it option
14:13:38 [Steven]
Michael: I think I can live with thaty.
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14:14:47 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to find wording to make ambiguous attribute optional
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Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:15:25 [Steven]
Topic: Namespaces
14:15:25 [Steven]
14:15:53 [Steven]
Tomos: I want to support namespaces
14:18:57 [Steven]
... take the roundtripping.
14:19:13 [Steven]
... to take XML and turn it into another form.
14:19:30 [Steven]
Michael: mathml to latex and back?
14:20:50 [Steven]
Tomos: If you can express it with a grammar then the two abstractions are equivalent.
14:21:55 [Steven]
Steven: It sounds like we are redesigning ixml
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... adding new requirements
14:22:32 [Steven]
Tomos: No, I want to plug some gaps.
14:23:48 [Steven]
Steven: So you would be happy if we could insert strings into the serialisation
14:23:58 [Steven]
Tomos: Just namespaces would be enoughj
14:24:38 [Steven]
John: a different example. Can you parse XML?
14:24:46 [Steven]
Steven: Yes.
14:25:22 [Steven]
John: THen you can handle namespaces.
14:25:41 [Steven]
Michael: Let me try and understand the question.
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Tomos: I would like to accept prefixed names
14:29:39 [Steven]
Steven: They already are aren't they?
14:31:19 [Steven]
Tomos: Even if the prefix is available, we can't specify the namespace
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... that's all we need
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... I don't think it's a big change
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Michael: THis is going to be a judgement call of cost:benefit, and if it complicates things. ixml has relative simplicity. If it is low-cost, there are advantages for xml. We need to have proposals on how to do it.
14:33:01 [Steven]
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Micahel: I would rather make a decision once we had a proposal or two
14:34:25 [Steven]
14:34:49 [Steven]
Tomos: Can we post on the github the grammar
14:35:17 [Steven]
ven: Isn't it there already?
14:35:26 [Steven]
14:35:35 [Steven]
Tomos: I mean a canonical file.
14:35:46 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven post grammar on github
14:35:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:37:32 [Steven]
Michael: I propose that people take actions to sketch out a proposal
14:39:12 [Steven]
ACTION: All to propose draft changes for namespace support
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Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:39:49 [Steven]
Topic: Requirements:
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14:40:55 [Steven]
Steven: "Should we explicitely state the requirements for ixml?"
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Tomos: Yes.
14:44:48 [Steven]
John: Roundtripping requires you keep all the information in the result.
14:45:03 [Steven]
Steven: Grammar author's responisibility.
14:45:19 [cmsmcq]
Is round-tripping a requirement? Is round-trippability a requirement? John - but when the grammar is used as a kind of query to extract important bits, we often throw information away.
14:45:21 [Steven]
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John: A double round trip would be idempotent
14:49:19 [Steven]
MIchael: I'm unsure about formalising the requirements. The discussions are not always useful.
14:50:44 [Steven]
Steven: Requirements help guide discussions.
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14:53:21 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven draft a list of the requirements as they were
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Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:54:05 [Steven]
Tomos: I'm in favour of controlling how the XML is produced.
14:54:42 [Steven]
Michael: Is the requirement "Control over what XML is produced" or "Moderate control"?
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Topic: AOB
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Tomos: I will be happy to take the minutes next time.
14:57:06 [Steven]
Steven: I will be backup
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Steven: NExt meeting Tues 8 June, 14Z
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I have made the request to generate Steven