IRC log of ixml on 2021-05-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:29:29 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ixml
- 13:29:29 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-irc
- 13:30:16 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 13:30:57 [Steven]
- Meeting: IXML Community Group Teleconference
- 13:31:06 [Steven]
- Date: 11 May 2021
- 13:31:09 [Steven]
- Chair: Steven
- 13:31:15 [Steven]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021May/0000
- 13:31:36 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:31:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
- 13:41:12 [aguzev]
- aguzev has joined #ixml
- 13:52:36 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #ixml
- 14:03:34 [Steven]
- Present: Steven, Aleksei, Tomos, John
- 14:04:23 [John]
- John has joined #ixml
- 14:04:23 [Steven]
- Topic: Previous Actions
- 14:04:23 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to research where to put S for attributes.
- 14:04:23 [Steven]
- ACTION: Michael to comment on conformance section of new draft
- 14:04:23 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:04:23 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:04:47 [Steven]
- Steven: My action continues
- 14:04:55 [Steven]
- Steven: Michael's is done
- 14:05:00 [Steven]
- ... on the agenda
- 14:05:25 [Steven]
- Topic: New draft
- 14:05:25 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0005
- 14:05:25 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0034
- 14:05:25 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0040
- 14:05:36 [Steven]
- Steven: Do want to discuss?
- 14:05:40 [cmsmcq]
- cmsmcq has joined #ixml
- 14:05:57 [Steven]
- ... or should I just add to spec
- 14:06:09 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0005
- 14:06:09 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0034
- 14:06:09 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0040
- 14:06:21 [yamahito]
- yamahito has joined #ixml
- 14:07:32 [Steven]
- MIchael: As questions arise please ask.
- 14:07:55 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to apply Michael's text to spec
- 14:07:55 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:08:56 [Steven]
- Michael: Are people happy with the suggestion of giving a choice about which tree gets returned for ambiguity.
- 14:09:04 [Steven]
- ... I want to do that.
- 14:09:32 [Steven]
- ... I would rather it be conformant
- 14:09:47 [Steven]
- Steven: Processors may on user option return more than one
- 14:09:52 [Steven]
- [General agreement]
- 14:10:38 [Steven]
- John: How about distinguishing when there are several?
- 14:10:44 [Steven]
- Steven: Already there.
- 14:10:59 [Steven]
- ... attribute
- 14:11:23 [Steven]
- Tomos: Can we make that optional?
- 14:11:35 [Steven]
- Michael: it is only an attribute
- 14:12:02 [Steven]
- Steven: In the ixml namespace
- 14:12:28 [Steven]
- Tomos: Can we make it optionally switchable?
- 14:12:43 [Steven]
- Michael: I am uneasy, but if it is a user option...
- 14:13:11 [Steven]
- Tomos: It isn't required, but implementers can decide to make it option
- 14:13:38 [Steven]
- Michael: I think I can live with thaty.
- 14:13:44 [Steven]
- s/thaty/that/
- 14:14:47 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to find wording to make ambiguous attribute optional
- 14:14:47 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:15:25 [Steven]
- Topic: Namespaces
- 14:15:25 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0014
- 14:15:53 [Steven]
- Tomos: I want to support namespaces
- 14:18:57 [Steven]
- ... take the roundtripping.
- 14:19:13 [Steven]
- ... to take XML and turn it into another form.
- 14:19:30 [Steven]
- Michael: mathml to latex and back?
- 14:20:50 [Steven]
- Tomos: If you can express it with a grammar then the two abstractions are equivalent.
- 14:21:55 [Steven]
- Steven: It sounds like we are redesigning ixml
- 14:22:04 [Steven]
- ... adding new requirements
- 14:22:32 [Steven]
- Tomos: No, I want to plug some gaps.
- 14:23:48 [Steven]
- Steven: So you would be happy if we could insert strings into the serialisation
- 14:23:58 [Steven]
- Tomos: Just namespaces would be enoughj
- 14:24:38 [Steven]
- John: a different example. Can you parse XML?
- 14:24:46 [Steven]
- Steven: Yes.
- 14:25:22 [Steven]
- John: THen you can handle namespaces.
- 14:25:41 [Steven]
- Michael: Let me try and understand the question.
- 14:27:11 [Steven]
- S/Then/Then/
- 14:29:31 [Steven]
- Tomos: I would like to accept prefixed names
- 14:29:39 [Steven]
- Steven: They already are aren't they?
- 14:31:19 [Steven]
- Tomos: Even if the prefix is available, we can't specify the namespace
- 14:31:30 [Steven]
- ... that's all we need
- 14:31:46 [Steven]
- ... I don't think it's a big change
- 14:32:53 [Steven]
- Michael: THis is going to be a judgement call of cost:benefit, and if it complicates things. ixml has relative simplicity. If it is low-cost, there are advantages for xml. We need to have proposals on how to do it.
- 14:33:01 [Steven]
- s/THis/This/
- 14:34:12 [Steven]
- Micahel: I would rather make a decision once we had a proposal or two
- 14:34:25 [Steven]
- s/Micah/Micha/
- 14:34:49 [Steven]
- Tomos: Can we post on the github the grammar
- 14:35:17 [Steven]
- ven: Isn't it there already?
- 14:35:26 [Steven]
- s/ven:/Steven:/
- 14:35:35 [Steven]
- Tomos: I mean a canonical file.
- 14:35:46 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven post grammar on github
- 14:35:46 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:37:32 [Steven]
- Michael: I propose that people take actions to sketch out a proposal
- 14:39:12 [Steven]
- ACTION: All to propose draft changes for namespace support
- 14:39:12 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:39:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Requirements:
- 14:39:49 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0047
- 14:40:55 [Steven]
- Steven: "Should we explicitely state the requirements for ixml?"
- 14:41:44 [Steven]
- Tomos: Yes.
- 14:44:48 [Steven]
- John: Roundtripping requires you keep all the information in the result.
- 14:45:03 [Steven]
- Steven: Grammar author's responisibility.
- 14:45:19 [cmsmcq]
- Is round-tripping a requirement? Is round-trippability a requirement? John - but when the grammar is used as a kind of query to extract important bits, we often throw information away.
- 14:45:21 [Steven]
- s/responisibility/responsibility
- 14:47:27 [Steven]
- John: A double round trip would be idempotent
- 14:49:19 [Steven]
- MIchael: I'm unsure about formalising the requirements. The discussions are not always useful.
- 14:50:44 [Steven]
- Steven: Requirements help guide discussions.
- 14:51:13 [Steven]
- Present+Michael
- 14:53:21 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven draft a list of the requirements as they were
- 14:53:21 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 14:54:05 [Steven]
- Tomos: I'm in favour of controlling how the XML is produced.
- 14:54:42 [Steven]
- Michael: Is the requirement "Control over what XML is produced" or "Moderate control"?
- 14:56:09 [Steven]
- Topic: AOB
- 14:56:44 [Steven]
- Tomos: I will be happy to take the minutes next time.
- 14:57:06 [Steven]
- Steven: I will be backup
- 14:57:49 [Steven]
- Steven: NExt meeting Tues 8 June, 14Z
- 14:58:02 [Steven]
- s/NE/Ne/
- 14:58:31 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:58:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
- 14:58:35 [Steven]
- Steven has left #ixml
- 14:58:55 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #ixml
- 15:00:27 [Steven]
- s/THen/Then/
- 15:00:37 [Steven]
- rssagent, make minutes
- 15:00:43 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:00:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven