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13:30:16 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
13:30:57 <Steven> Meeting: IXML Community Group Teleconference
13:31:06 <Steven> Date: 11 May 2021
13:31:09 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:31:15 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021May/0000
13:31:36 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:31:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
13:41:12 <aguzev> aguzev has joined #ixml
13:52:36 <Steven> Steven has joined #ixml
14:03:34 <Steven> Present: Steven, Aleksei, Tomos, John
14:04:23 <John> John has joined #ixml
14:04:23 <Steven> Topic: Previous Actions
14:04:23 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to research where to put S for attributes.
14:04:23 <Steven> ACTION: Michael to comment on conformance section of new draft
14:04:23 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:04:23 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:04:47 <Steven> Steven: My action continues
14:04:55 <Steven> Steven: Michael's is done
14:05:00 <Steven> ... on the agenda
14:05:25 <Steven> Topic: New draft
14:05:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0005
14:05:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0034
14:05:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0040
14:05:36 <Steven> Steven: Do want to discuss?
14:05:40 <cmsmcq> cmsmcq has joined #ixml
14:05:57 <Steven> ... or should I just add to spec
14:06:09 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0005
14:06:09 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0034
14:06:09 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0040
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14:07:32 <Steven> MIchael: As questions arise please ask.
14:07:55 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to apply Michael's text to spec
14:07:55 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:08:56 <Steven> Michael: Are people happy with the suggestion of giving a choice about which tree gets returned for ambiguity.
14:09:04 <Steven> ... I want to do that.
14:09:32 <Steven> ... I would rather it be conformant
14:09:47 <Steven> Steven: Processors may on user option return more than one
14:09:52 <Steven> [General agreement]
14:10:38 <Steven> John: How about distinguishing when there are several?
14:10:44 <Steven> Steven: Already there.
14:10:59 <Steven> ... attribute
14:11:23 <Steven> Tomos: Can we make that optional?
14:11:35 <Steven> Michael: it is only an attribute
14:12:02 <Steven> Steven: In the ixml namespace
14:12:28 <Steven> Tomos: Can we make it optionally switchable?
14:12:43 <Steven> Michael: I am uneasy, but if it is a user option...
14:13:11 <Steven> Tomos: It isn't required, but implementers can decide to make it option
14:13:38 <Steven> Michael: I think I can live with thaty.
14:13:44 <Steven> s/thaty/that/
14:14:47 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to find wording to make ambiguous attribute optional
14:14:47 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:15:25 <Steven> Topic: Namespaces
14:15:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0014
14:15:53 <Steven> Tomos: I want to support namespaces
14:18:57 <Steven> ... take the roundtripping.
14:19:13 <Steven> ... to take XML and turn it into another form.
14:19:30 <Steven> Michael: mathml to latex and back?
14:20:50 <Steven> Tomos: If you can express it with a grammar then the two abstractions are equivalent.
14:21:55 <Steven> Steven: It sounds like we are redesigning ixml
14:22:04 <Steven> ... adding new requirements
14:22:32 <Steven> Tomos: No, I want to plug some gaps.
14:23:48 <Steven> Steven: So you would be happy if we could insert strings into the serialisation
14:23:58 <Steven> Tomos: Just namespaces would be enoughj
14:24:38 <Steven> John: a different example. Can you parse XML?
14:24:46 <Steven> Steven: Yes.
14:25:22 <Steven> John: THen you can handle namespaces.
14:25:41 <Steven> Michael: Let me try and understand the question.
14:27:11 <Steven> S/Then/Then/
14:29:31 <Steven> Tomos: I would like to accept prefixed names
14:29:39 <Steven> Steven: They already are aren't they?
14:31:19 <Steven> Tomos: Even if the prefix is available, we can't specify the namespace
14:31:30 <Steven> ... that's all we need
14:31:46 <Steven> ... I don't think it's a big change
14:32:53 <Steven> Michael: THis is going to be a judgement call of cost:benefit, and if it complicates things. ixml has relative simplicity. If it is low-cost, there are advantages for xml. We need to have proposals on how to do it.
14:33:01 <Steven> s/THis/This/
14:34:12 <Steven> Micahel: I would rather make a decision once we had a proposal or two
14:34:25 <Steven> s/Micah/Micha/
14:34:49 <Steven> Tomos: Can we post on the github the grammar
14:35:17 <Steven> ven: Isn't it there already?
14:35:26 <Steven> s/ven:/Steven:/
14:35:35 <Steven> Tomos: I mean a canonical file.
14:35:46 <Steven> ACTION: Steven post grammar on github
14:35:46 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:37:32 <Steven> Michael: I propose that people take actions to sketch out a proposal
14:39:12 <Steven> ACTION: All to propose draft changes for namespace support
14:39:12 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:39:49 <Steven> Topic: Requirements:
14:39:49 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Apr/0047
14:40:55 <Steven> Steven: "Should we explicitely state the requirements for ixml?"
14:41:44 <Steven> Tomos: Yes.
14:44:48 <Steven> John: Roundtripping requires you keep all the information in the result.
14:45:03 <Steven> Steven: Grammar author's responisibility.
14:45:19 <cmsmcq> Is round-tripping a requirement?  Is round-trippability a requirement?  John - but when the grammar is used as a kind of query to extract important bits, we often throw information away.
14:45:21 <Steven> s/responisibility/responsibility
14:47:27 <Steven> John:  A double round trip would be idempotent
14:49:19 <Steven> MIchael: I'm unsure about formalising the requirements. The discussions are not always useful.
14:50:44 <Steven> Steven: Requirements help guide discussions.
14:51:13 <Steven> Present+Michael
14:53:21 <Steven> ACTION: Steven draft a list of the requirements as they were
14:53:21 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:54:05 <Steven> Tomos: I'm in favour of controlling how the XML is produced.
14:54:42 <Steven> Michael: Is the requirement "Control over what XML is produced" or "Moderate control"?
14:56:09 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:56:44 <Steven> Tomos: I will be happy to take the minutes next time.
14:57:06 <Steven> Steven: I will be backup
14:57:49 <Steven> Steven: NExt meeting Tues 8 June, 14Z
14:58:02 <Steven> s/NE/Ne/
14:58:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:58:35 <Steven> Steven has left #ixml
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15:00:27 <Steven> s/THen/Then/
15:00:37 <Steven> rssagent, make minutes
15:00:43 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven