IRC log of rdf-star on 2021-05-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:09 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-rdf-star-irc
14:57:11 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:57:12 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin_
14:58:31 [pchampin_]
meeting: RDF-star
14:58:35 [pchampin_]
chair: pchampin
14:58:46 [pchampin_]
date: 7 May 2021
14:58:56 [pchampin_]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021May/0021.html
14:58:56 [agendabot]
clear agenda
14:58:56 [agendabot]
agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
14:58:56 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open actions
14:58:56 [agendabot]
agenda+ Moving to standard track
14:58:56 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open-ended discussions
14:59:24 [william]
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14:59:27 [pchampin_]
Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-04-30.html
14:59:27 [pchampin_]
Next meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-05-14.html
14:59:30 [gkellogg]
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14:59:49 [thomas]
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15:00:05 [pfps]
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15:01:42 [olaf]
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15:02:09 [james]
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15:02:10 [AndyS]
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15:02:23 [james]
present+
15:02:59 [AndyS]
present+
15:03:09 [pchampin]
present+
15:03:12 [thomas]
present+
15:03:47 [gkellogg]
present+
15:03:51 [rivettp]
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15:04:00 [rivettp]
present+
15:04:23 [olaf]
present+
15:05:11 [ora]
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15:05:18 [ora]
present+
15:06:08 [jbollema]
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15:06:19 [AndyS]
zakim, pick Ora
15:06:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pick Ora', AndyS
15:06:58 [jbollema]
I can scribe for a bit
15:07:01 [AndyS]
I'll scribe
15:07:10 [AndyS]
scribe: AndyS
15:07:21 [pchampin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:07:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:23 [gatemezing]
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15:08:10 [AndyS]
Knowledge Graph Conference
15:08:35 [AndyS]
ora: Got a Q about RDF-star - request for what's going on.
15:09:28 [AndyS]
olaf: shorter version of Lotico event
15:10:55 [ora]
q+
15:11:31 [AndyS]
rivettp: There session on GQL and OSI.
15:11:46 [AndyS]
... is there unification of work going on?
15:12:34 [AndyS]
pchampin: GQL is following a different track.
15:13:31 [pchampin]
scribe: pchampin
15:13:39 [pchampin]
AndyS: the process is partially responsible of that
15:13:52 [pchampin]
... the ISO process makes it hard to share with the public
15:14:39 [pchampin]
rivettp: many people at the conference were asking about RDF-star
15:14:54 [pchampin]
... the seem to expect it to help a convergence between the two worlds
15:15:09 [pchampin]
AndyS: not sure people expect "convergence"
15:15:12 [gatemezing]
present+
15:16:05 [pchampin]
rivettp: [something about data interoperability]
15:16:17 [AndyS]
Ditto.
15:16:32 [pchampin]
q?
15:16:37 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:17:16 [AndyS]
ora: Interesting results of EKGC survey - interoperation a priority
15:17:22 [pchampin]
scribe: AndyS
15:17:51 [AndyS]
... very positive for standardization
15:18:02 [AndyS]
... least important "no code" tools.
15:18:15 [pchampin]
q?
15:18:36 [pchampin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:18:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:49 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:19:08 [pchampin]
scribe: pchampin
15:19:11 [AndyS]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/163
15:19:20 [AndyS]
PR 167
15:19:46 [pchampin]
AndyS: updated SPARQL grammar to allow << ... >> in expressions
15:20:05 [pchampin]
... and add corresponding test case
15:20:29 [pchampin]
... and a short section describing how to evaluate these expressions (refering to TRIPLE(...))
15:21:31 [pchampin]
s/test case/negative test cases/
15:21:39 [gkellogg]
+1 to merge
15:21:44 [pchampin]
... ready to merge in a few days
15:22:16 [AndyS]
scribe: AndyS
15:22:18 [pchampin]
q?
15:22:24 [AndyS]
pchampin: other actions?
15:22:58 [AndyS]
... semantics PR in-progress
15:23:23 [pchampin]
q?
15:23:43 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:23:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Moving to standard track -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:23:54 [pchampin]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2021May/0015.html
15:24:23 [AndyS]
pchampin: Summary of email: W3C suggests starting the chartering process soon as possible.
15:24:37 [AndyS]
... flow from CG(-like) to WG
15:24:52 [AndyS]
... do not give impression that the WG is a rubber stamp
15:25:40 [AndyS]
... Q1 : Are we OK with that?
15:26:10 [thomas]
q+
15:26:15 [pchampin]
ack thomas
15:26:56 [AndyS]
thomas: Who will participate?
15:27:13 [ora]
q+
15:27:27 [AndyS]
(This is a W3C process question not specific to this WG)
15:28:16 [AndyS]
pchampin: W3C member organisations nominate individuals.
15:28:33 [gkellogg]
q+
15:29:01 [AndyS]
phcampin: we can help with the charter text
15:29:14 [AndyS]
... and we need chairs
15:29:15 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:29:43 [AndyS]
ora: WG may have invited experts
15:29:45 [pchampin]
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/
15:29:55 [AndyS]
q+
15:30:59 [AndyS]
q-
15:32:20 [pchampin]
ack gkellogg
15:32:49 [AndyS]
gkellogg: IE at chairs' discretion
15:33:09 [AndyS]
... not bypass your own W3C member org
15:33:40 [AndyS]
... CG stands on its own. We will have a final report.
15:34:41 [pchampin]
q?
15:34:41 [AndyS]
... (another another WG) ...
15:34:59 [AndyS]
s/another another/about another/
15:35:31 [jbollema]
q
15:35:35 [jbollema]
q+
15:35:39 [ora]
q+
15:35:46 [pchampin]
ack jbollema
15:36:07 [AndyS]
q+
15:36:29 [AndyS]
jbollema: Do we need two WGs? - one for RDF, one for SPARQL.
15:36:58 [gkellogg]
q+
15:37:35 [pchampin]
scribe: pchampin
15:37:52 [pchampin]
AndyS: in the past, some WG have modified other WG's documents
15:37:56 [TallTed]
q+ to say it's all about the charter
15:38:16 [pchampin]
... there is a preference to have less WGs
15:38:44 [AndyS]
pchampin: Both would be in scope - will check.
15:38:46 [ora]
(Are we not using the queue anymore...?)
15:39:35 [AndyS]
gkellog: Charter will list docs in-scope.
15:39:42 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:39:46 [AndyS]
q-
15:39:51 [gkellogg]
q-
15:40:15 [AndyS]
ora: Original RDF, RDFS got combined.
15:40:45 [AndyS]
ora: There will be a delay - chartering, ramp up, IP review
15:40:52 [AndyS]
q+
15:40:58 [thomas]
are we talking months?
15:41:51 [AndyS]
pchampin: because it will take time, is one reason to start chartering soon. And CG can continue while process proceeds.
15:42:04 [AndyS]
thomas - yes
15:42:12 [pchampin]
ack TallTed
15:42:12 [Zakim]
TallTed, you wanted to say it's all about the charter
15:43:15 [AndyS]
TallTed: Qs: "CG" input can taken at the point of WG-start-up. Wording in charter.
15:43:32 [gkellogg]
q+
15:43:43 [AndyS]
... concern is this RDF 1.2, fork, RDF 2.
15:43:55 [ora]
q+
15:44:16 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
15:45:06 [gatemezing]
+1 to TallTed on using the input of this work for the next WG
15:45:54 [pchampin]
AndyS: there are RDF systems not supporting bnodes
15:46:14 [pchampin]
... we can live with RDF systems not supporting embedded triples.
15:46:30 [pchampin]
... The important point is that what we propose does not invalidated existing data.
15:46:39 [james]
.. but ... it will invalidate applications
15:47:11 [pchampin]
ack gkellogg
15:47:46 [AndyS]
gkellogg: Not so much an either/or -- RDF 1.1 has generalized RDF graph.
15:48:41 [AndyS]
... key is updating docs for abstract syntax or in "generalized" abstraction
15:48:58 [AndyS]
... AZ mentioned quoted graphs
15:49:07 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:49:39 [AndyS]
ora: concern what does this do to the wider community
15:50:20 [AndyS]
... we should pay attention to the adoption and presentation
15:50:21 [AndyS]
q+
15:50:27 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
15:51:06 [jbollema]
AndyS Would chartering avoid implementers submit implementation reports
15:51:51 [jbollema]
hope to make internal implementors experiments public.
15:52:03 [jbollema]
hope to make internal implementors experiments public so that we can learn of it.
15:53:07 [pchampin]
q?
15:53:59 [pchampin]
pchampin: implementation reports might look like we just want to rubber stamp the existing spec
15:54:10 [pchampin]
AndyS: this can be turned into something positive
15:55:20 [thomas]
q+
15:55:41 [pchampin]
... implementation reports will inform the charter
15:55:47 [pchampin]
ack thomas
15:57:35 [AndyS]
thomas: who writes the charter?
15:58:11 [AndyS]
pchampin: Usually W3C team member who will be team contact. Wide review and revision.
15:58:47 [AndyS]
... general agreement this is the way forward.
15:58:51 [pchampin]
STRAWPOLL: let's write a charter draft
15:58:57 [jbollema]
+1 for starting on a charter for a WG.
15:58:57 [pchampin]
+1
15:59:01 [thomas]
+1
15:59:01 [ora]
+1
15:59:07 [AndyS]
+1
15:59:08 [olaf]
+1
15:59:09 [gkellogg]
+1
15:59:11 [james]
+1
15:59:12 [rivettp]
+1
15:59:19 [TallTed]
+1
16:01:17 [pchampin]
q?
16:01:38 [pchampin]
action: pchampin to create a repo for the charter
16:01:42 [william]
+1
16:02:36 [pchampin]
STRAWPOLL: have a call next week
16:02:40 [TallTed]
+0
16:02:47 [pchampin]
+0
16:02:48 [thomas]
+0
16:02:51 [james]
+0
16:02:51 [gkellogg]
+0
16:02:52 [william]
+0
16:02:55 [olaf]
+0
16:03:03 [AndyS]
+0
16:03:16 [rivettp]
+1
16:03:57 [jbollema]
+1
16:04:12 [william]
thanks
16:04:16 [ora]
bye
16:04:24 [TallTed]
present+
16:04:25 [olaf]
bye
16:04:28 [jbollema]
bye and thanks
16:04:28 [olaf]
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16:04:32 [AndyS]
zakim, end meeting
16:04:32 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been gkellogg, gatemezing, pchampin, james_, olaf, thomas, AndyS, TallTed, ora, james, rivettp
16:04:34 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:04:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
16:04:37 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:04:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:04:50 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please excuse us
16:04:50 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
16:04:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pchampin to create a repo for the charter [1]
16:04:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/05/07-rdf-star-irc#T16-01-38