14:03:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:03:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-irc
14:04:18 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:04:53 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster, Victor_Charpenay
14:05:52 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-td
14:05:57 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
14:06:09 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
14:06:41 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:08:13 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
14:08:22 <McCool> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Apr_28.2C_2021
14:08:45 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool
14:08:46 <McCool> seb: main task today will be preparing for our TD 1.1 WD update
14:09:00 <McCool> topic: review minutes Apr 21
14:09:03 <kaz> i/agenda:/topic: Agenda/
14:09:13 <McCool> https://www.w3.org/2021/04/21-wot-td-minutes.html
14:09:31 <kaz> i/https/-> https/
14:09:35 <kaz> s/html/html Apr-21/
14:11:33 <McCool> seb: was canonicalization merged?
14:11:58 <McCool> mm: yes, but were some minor issues, so I made issues and a PR to address some of them
14:12:05 <McCool> seb: what about validation?
14:12:37 <McCool> mm: validation still WIP, will really only finalize after testfest when we are sure what can be automatically tested
14:12:51 <McCool> seb: any objections to publishing the minutes?
14:13:00 <McCool> ... no objections, will publish.
14:13:09 <McCool> topic: publication plan
14:13:24 <McCool> seb: still have one week to bring in new features, then will be making call for review
14:13:38 <McCool> ... aiming for resolution on May 19 for a new WD
14:14:05 <McCool> topic: PRs
14:14:28 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1077
14:14:35 <McCool> seb: what is status?
14:14:40 <McCool> vc: still in progree
14:14:54 <McCool> seb: think it can be finished by next week?
14:14:57 <McCool> vc: maybe
14:15:12 <McCool> ... no impact on the draft itself; is ontology work
14:16:58 <kaz> i/1077/subtopic: PR 1077/
14:17:00 <McCool> mm: would be useful to have framing normative for directories
14:17:23 <McCool> vc: what is being frozen this week?
14:17:24 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:17:39 <kaz> s/1077/1077 PR 1077 - WIP: Extend JSON-LD context to allow for round-tripping to/from N-Triples/
14:18:44 <McCool> mm: discovery is not frozen yet, the WD is just an update
14:19:05 <McCool> ... also, JTD, just published, is a good place to direct testing for framing
14:21:35 <McCool> mm: see also some issues about array ordering being maintained
14:22:47 <McCool> ... please look at new assertions on TD Processors in Canonicalization section
14:24:04 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1095
14:24:12 <McCool> generation of TD from TM
14:24:23 <McCool> seb: created a set of assertions for each step
14:25:12 <McCool> mm: note that we need two implementions for everything...
14:25:27 <McCool> s/implementions/implementations/
14:25:49 <McCool> ca: have tried to frame this process so we can test the output
14:26:08 <McCool> ... don't force implementers to actually use the two-step approach
14:26:43 <McCool> mm: is everything testable with JSON Schema?
14:26:56 <McCool> ca: not sure, the "extends" relation may be tricky
14:27:28 <McCool> ... also, last step about filling in forms may be difficult
14:29:42 <McCool> mm: also security; "securityDefinitions" might be defined separately, then combined with the TM to create the TD (by selecting security scheme definitions for each interaction)
14:30:22 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:30:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:30:43 <dape> q+
14:30:57 <McCool> mm: I see though that the wording is based on the output, so...
14:31:24 <kaz> Chair: Sebastian
14:31:34 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:31:53 <McCool> mm: I find "complemented" a little vague, but will have to think if there is better wording that would be more specific
14:32:05 <McCool> seb: stilll this is a big improvement over the current draft
14:32:11 <McCool> s/stilll/still/
14:32:23 <McCool> seb: suggest we merge and iterate
14:32:35 <McCool> mm: also ok with that
14:32:53 <McCool> ca: however some issues with running the renderer... CLI does not quite work
14:33:16 <McCool> ... opened an issue on vc's repo
14:33:32 <kaz> i/1095/subtopic: PR 1095/
14:33:34 <McCool> s/an issue/issue #18/
14:33:45 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:33:52 <McCool> seb: ok, will merge
14:33:57 <dape> q-
14:34:05 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1098
14:34:18 <kaz> s/1095/1095 PR 1095 - Two step generation of the TD from a TM/
14:34:24 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1098
14:34:47 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:34:58 <kaz> s/1098/1095 PR 1098 - Fix multiple TD model definitions/
14:35:14 <McCool> seb: this fixes various things that suddenly became arrays, base went missing, securityDefinitions missing, security changed to an object instead of a string, etc.
14:35:41 <McCool> ... so this PR brought back all these missing definitions
14:36:36 <McCool> mm: can confirm that security and securityDefinitions are now correct
14:38:35 <McCool> mm: +1 on merging, critical for other things I want to get done...
14:42:14 <McCool> seb: merging
14:42:51 <McCool> mm: would be nice btw to have a directory structure that clearly distinguished input and output files
14:42:59 <McCool> vc: are comments in the render script
14:43:22 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1099
14:43:29 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1099
14:43:47 <McCool> added readOnly to the example
14:44:11 <McCool> the HTTP protocol binding, simplifies things
14:44:19 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:44:31 <McCool> mm: see ege has reviewed
14:44:37 <kaz> s/1099/1099 PR 1099 - fix: default op values for HTTP/
14:44:46 <McCool> seb: merged
14:45:09 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1102
14:45:12 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1102
14:45:54 <McCool> mention Thing Model, Partial TD, etc: say definitions are defined in Arch document, and removes it from TD spec, so there is a single place where the definition is made, in Architecture
14:46:47 <McCool> mm: I think the future we should get rid of the etc.
14:46:59 <McCool> seb: agree
14:47:05 <McCool> mm: ok for now, though
14:48:09 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:48:24 <kaz> s/1102/1102 PR 1102 - Update Terminology Section/
14:49:08 <McCool> seb: let's edit it and remove the etc. now; also need to resolve conflict
14:50:36 <McCool> seb: (fixes both problems)
14:50:50 <McCool> dape: should terms be in lexi order?
14:51:03 <McCool> seb: semantic clustering seems to work better, will leave it that way
14:51:23 <McCool> ... conflict was just about introduction of Thing Model, resolved.
14:52:00 <McCool> seb: merged
14:52:23 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1063
14:53:05 <McCool> s/PR 1103/
14:53:09 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1103
14:53:31 <McCool> seb: updates relation type with new entry, "icon"
14:53:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:53:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:53:54 <McCool> ... and it is an IANA name
14:54:05 <kaz> s|PR 1063|PR 1103|
14:54:07 <McCool> ... also added tm: to tm:extends
14:54:13 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:54:50 <kaz> s/1103/1103 PR 1103 - Introduce Thing Icon/
14:54:53 <McCool> ... also new entry in Links, "sizes", to give different sizes for icons; sim to HTML
14:56:05 <McCool> mm: HeightxWidth should be Height x Width
14:56:19 <McCool> ... or maybe {Height}x{Width}
14:57:51 <McCool> seb: can make that edit...
14:59:39 <McCool> seb: seems I also forgot to edit the template... (fixes)
15:01:10 <McCool> ... never mind the definition needs to be edited in the ontology, not the template...
15:01:20 <McCool> ... and the validation...
15:01:30 <McCool> ... (done)
15:02:42 <McCool> ... there is a conflict, but is index.html, not critical (generated)
15:02:56 <McCool> seb: merged
15:03:43 <McCool> ca: should we be adding some validation about this to the JSON schema, e.g. for sizes?
15:04:06 <McCool> seb: that would be nice
15:04:27 <McCool> ca: I will try to update the JSON schema appropriately
15:04:32 <McCool> seb: coordinate with Ege
15:04:47 <McCool> mm: may need to add some tests
15:04:58 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1104
15:05:18 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1104
15:05:31 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:05:43 <McCool> seb: no pattern, and also a bug (maxLength should apply only to strings)
15:05:44 <kaz> s/1104/1104 PR 1104 - Address multiple DataSchema issues/
15:06:46 <McCool> seb: discussion related to general compatibility with JSON schema; should we have full compatibility?
15:06:59 <McCool> ... right now we cover most/all of it
15:07:08 <McCool> ... not far away from full compliance
15:07:19 <McCool> ege: I will look into it, I also don't think it's a lot
15:08:08 <McCool> mm: I think we should specify the DATE at which we were aligned, and the exceptions (eg no support for $ref, etc)
15:08:43 <McCool> seb: also we use "default"...
15:09:23 <McCool> mm: not clear if "default" is now in the JSON Schema spec; perhaps Ege can check while he is doing the feature review
15:10:49 <Ege> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-handrews-json-schema-validation-01#section-10.2\
15:10:51 <Ege> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-handrews-json-schema-validation-01#section-10.2
15:11:35 <McCool> ege: default is in the JSON Schema spec, but is an annotation
15:13:04 <Ege> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-handrews-json-schema-validation-01
15:13:08 <McCool> mm: also, are we citing the IETF (draft) version?
15:14:20 <McCool> ... we need to pick a specific version and make sure our reference is correct
15:15:15 <McCool> seb: ok, let's collect fixes and discuss merging next time
15:15:35 <kaz> q+
15:15:44 <McCool> note this PR addresses multiple issues
15:17:08 <McCool> seb: also some issues about subset of JSON schema used, and whether additional terms can be used from JSON Schema; but without a prefix
15:18:31 <McCool> mm: I wonder if we should allow random vocab without a prefix
15:18:55 <McCool> ... if we insisted on having a prefix, then the validator could catch spelling mistakes, e.g. property/properties
15:19:55 <dape> q+
15:21:42 <kaz> ack d
15:22:45 <McCool> ege: we allowed extra stuff because lots of JSON Schemas have extra stuff in them that are not in the JSON Schema spec
15:23:19 <kaz> -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhutton-json-schema-validation-00 latest IETF draft for JSON Schema Validation (2020)
15:24:03 <McCool> mm: perhaps tools can have strict mode, but can turn off in case of extra stuff in schemas
15:24:21 <McCool> seb: there is another issue about "format" being removed from JSON Schema
15:24:30 <McCool> ... do we remove it from TD spec?
15:24:44 <McCool> ege: ok if stick to particular version
15:24:51 <kaz> i/https/kaz: technically, all the additional properties other than the default namespace should be specified by the additional namespaces, e.g., JSON Schema. Also we should refer to the following latest IETF draft for JSON Schema Validation from TD./
15:24:53 <McCool> ... there is also an issue with items
15:25:06 <kaz> q?
15:25:08 <kaz> ack k
15:25:43 <McCool> mm: think we should stick to one version for 1.x, and update version in 2.0
15:25:57 <McCool> ... could mark "format" as deprecated though
15:26:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:26:23 <McCool> mk: we also should update the ontology; unfortunately JSON Schema does not provide an official ontology
15:26:37 <McCool> seb: suggest thinking more about this and will check next week
15:26:37 <kaz> s/technically/scribenick: kaz/
15:26:48 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1108
15:26:50 <kaz> i/perhaps tools/scribenick: McCool/
15:27:05 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1108
15:27:14 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:27:25 <kaz> s/1108/1108 PR 1108 - consumer forms selection/
15:27:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:27:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:27:44 <McCool> seb: how to deal with multiple forms.  Added a paragraph providing guidance: pick one that works, use it as long as possible
15:29:34 <McCool> seb: merged
15:30:03 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1109
15:30:05 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1108
15:30:20 <McCool> seb: need to restrict URL for simple types
15:32:04 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:32:19 <kaz> s/1108/1109 PR 1109 - restrict more uri variables/
15:32:39 <McCool> seb: forbids use of objects and arrays
15:33:23 <McCool> mm: I had some minor nits, would rather see a class for "SimpleDataSchema", but having a comment is better than nothing
15:33:42 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1110
15:33:59 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1110
15:34:31 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:34:47 <kaz> s/1110/1110 PR 1110 - Add contentType default to canonicalization examples/
15:35:16 <McCool> mm: fixes bug in example, "contentType" has a default so needs to be included in canonical form
15:35:24 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1111
15:36:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1111 PR 1111 - Add fracsec rule to dateTime in Canonical TD
15:36:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:37:32 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1111
15:38:16 <McCool> this means that fractional seconds must be serialized according to JCS and must not have trailing zeros
15:38:34 <McCool> subtopic: PR 1113
15:38:48 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1113
15:39:05 <McCool> ege: worked on tm:ref and tm:required
15:39:13 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:39:36 <kaz> s/1113/1113 PR 1113 - add tm:required and tm:ref generation/
15:39:53 <McCool> ege: examples are only for interactions; can it be used elsewhere?
15:40:23 <McCool> mm: an example might be to have a TM with securityDefinitions that I can pull in...
15:40:36 <McCool> seb: in SDF, can it be used everywhere?
15:41:33 <McCool> mk: yes, it can be used everywhere, but the resulting object needs to be valid, i.e. you need to bring in an Object where and Object is expected
15:42:20 <McCool> mm: what about pulling in same thing twice?  Do we pull in refs and then validate?
15:42:26 <McCool> mk: could have overrides
15:43:32 <McCool> mm: think we should have a general assertion that the result of dereferencing tm:refs should result in a valid file (TM or TD)
15:44:23 <McCool> mm: we could have simple rule that duplicates are not allowed
15:44:37 <McCool> ... could also do overriding, but more complicated to define
15:46:36 <McCool> mm: what is SDF rule?
15:46:53 <McCool> mk: overriding.  new duplicate definitions replace existing ones
15:47:03 <McCool> ... but also say "meaning should not be changed"
15:47:17 <McCool> ... which is hard to test, so more user-beware
15:47:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:47:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:47:50 <McCool> ege: also validation is an issue
15:48:51 <McCool> ... format for json-pointer not quite right
15:49:05 <McCool> mm: really need a URL with a json-pointer as a fragment identifier
15:49:40 <Ege> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#objectschema
15:53:39 <McCool> mm: perhaps can use a pattern like "{url} # json-pointer"
15:58:05 <McCool> seb: hard to understand
15:58:19 <McCool> mm: think we just need an informative paragraph explaining how it works
15:58:28 <McCool> seb: ok, added some notes to the PR
15:59:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:59:53 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22PR+needed%22
16:01:13 <McCool> exit
16:01:23 <kaz> s/exit/[adjourned]/
16:01:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:37:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td