IRC log of pointerevents on 2021-04-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:58:58 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-irc
- 14:59:12 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Meeting: PEWG
- 14:59:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
- 14:59:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210428T110000
- 14:59:56 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Scribe: Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:00:04 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:00:34 [flackr]
- flackr has joined #pointerevents
- 15:01:36 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ smaug
- 15:01:44 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ flackr
- 15:03:12 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Topic: Review of "Add new section explaining coalesced and predicted events" https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/364
- 15:05:05 [mustaq]
- present+
- 15:07:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: thanks to all who looked at.
- 15:07:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: did everybody have sufficient time? Rob?
- 15:07:41 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [agree that this could do with another read-through as it's a large change]
- 15:08:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Action: review this PR for next meeting, ideally be able to merge it even before then if felt appropriate
- 15:08:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: would like to tackle the other big PR *after* this one is merged as it will need rebasing/merging into
- 15:08:47 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Topic: Major refactoring: refer to "direct manipulation" rather than "touch" https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/350
- 15:09:07 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: is it panning or scrolling
- 15:13:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: panning to me is "scrolling in direct manipulation" scenarios. we have a note somewhere that already says we use the terms interchangeably. my preference would be panning
- 15:13:59 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: but you changed all instances of panning to scrolling in the PR...
- 15:14:29 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: *blushes* clearly i'm confusing myself. but today my preference is panning. straw poll on people's preference?
- 15:14:39 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [consensus coalesces around "panning"]
- 15:15:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: i'll change the PR to stick to panning (and maybe sneak in extra expansion on where we explain that we treat the terms as synonymous)
- 15:17:13 [mustaq]
- https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/350.html#glossary
- 15:17:16 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: do we want to review this now, or do people need more time to review on their own?
- 15:19:35 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: would like clarity on the glossary definition. The entry we had for direct manipulation - does this also include mouse or not?
- 15:19:57 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: yes IF the browser/OS treats the mouse as a direct manipulation device for panning/zooming
- 15:23:22 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: we'll leave this open again, please review on github. Would like to get this PR merged (like the other big one) before the next meeting in 2 weeks' time (or even earlier if we're happy with it). After that, few more stragglers like that one confusing sentence around "default behaviour", but easier to address AFTER these are merged
- 15:28:30 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [more discussion/question about "is mouse direct manipulation", and the fact that our new/redefined version avoids the topic altogether. touch-action only interested in filtering panning/zooming as a result of a direct manipulation ... not interested in any other concept like drag and drop etc]
- 15:28:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Action: review this PR before next meeting, ideally merge this before next meeting
- 15:29:07 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Topic: Clarify what the target of the click event should be after capturing pointer events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/356
- 15:29:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: Olli already commented on this
- 15:29:38 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: we added some telemetry for this yesterday [in Firefox], no data yet. was something added in Chrome yet?
- 15:30:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: filed a bug internally, but not worked on it
- 15:30:33 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: if usage is higher than what we expect, we can't change and may have to adopt Chrome's model. otherwise, we could consider opting for this better behavior
- 15:31:35 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: and it shouldn't be difficult to change this. even if we do find explicit capture used often, will be a question of how often do you still get another ancestor handed to the event handler (to see if these scenarios would be affected by a change in behaviour)
- 15:31:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: maybe we could instrument that, as that's the only thing that matters - how often people rely on the target
- 15:33:26 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: [talks through the test case some more]
- 15:33:44 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: my intuition is that if an author captures on an element, they'll expect events to all go to that event
- 15:34:04 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: think we need some more data
- 15:34:35 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: let's get data and see how risky it is, but inclined to say that we consider the capture target to be the target where the click is going to go
- 15:34:57 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Action: leave open and gather more data, report next meeting
- 15:35:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: I can collect some data for next time
- 15:35:29 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: AOB?
- 15:35:50 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: I have an issue that came up from changing click to pointer event
- 15:37:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: we have active state. is "click" still active, or is the pointer not active just before the click is then dispatched
- 15:37:24 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: i think we already have incompatibility with certain implementations
- 15:39:07 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: i would expect if you process mouseup, then you send click in the same process. but yes there can be differences
- 15:39:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: [asks if it's spec'd anywhere that mouseup and then click should be synchronous]
- 15:39:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: i don't think it's specified anywhere, it could be in UI Events
- 15:42:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-click-auxclick-and-contextmenu-events
- 15:42:40 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: do we care about pressure on click?
- 15:43:36 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: wouldn't pressure be the pressure of the last known good pointer event, which for pointerup would be close to zero as the finger (etc) is just about to leave the digitizer?
- 15:44:02 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: what would be good would be to have the highest pressure
- 15:44:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: *jokes* coalescedPressure list
- 15:45:02 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: so what would make sense in the click?
- 15:46:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: maybe we should just let web authors handle pressure in actual pointer* events and leave click alone
- 15:46:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: my gut feeling is that developer won't want to overload their click handling
- 15:48:07 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [group agrees the click should just keep all things like pressure as the default values, like when a pointer event is generated/initialised]
- 15:48:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: is there any action arising from this discussion? do we need to say anything more in https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#the-click-auxclick-and-contextmenu-events
- 15:48:34 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: no, don't think so, we can leave it as is
- 15:48:57 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: i'll have a look, see if maybe we can just make it super-explicit. but otherwise happy to leave as is
- 15:49:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: thank you all, please review PRs for next time, see you again in 2 weeks
- 15:49:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 15:49:36 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 15:49:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:50:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: review this PR for next meeting, ideally be able to merge it even before then if felt appropriate [1]
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-irc#T15-08-06
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: review this PR before next meeting, ideally merge this before next meeting [2]
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-irc#T15-28-49
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: leave open and gather more data, report next meeting [3]
- 15:50:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/28-pointerevents-irc#T15-34-57