16:43:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #silver
16:43:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-silver-irc
16:43:31 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:43:32 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
16:43:48 <jeanne> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
16:43:48 <jeanne> present:
16:43:48 <jeanne> chair: Shawn, jeanne
16:43:48 <jeanne> present+
16:43:49 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
16:43:49 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-silver-minutes.html jeanne
16:43:49 <jeanne> q?
16:43:49 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:45:25 <jeanne> agenda+ reminder: AGWG- Silver joint meeting 29 April
16:45:25 <jeanne> agenda+ Timeline and deadlines for May heartbeat Working Draft (WD)
16:45:25 <jeanne> agenda+ ACT -Silver Joint meeting - 14 & 21 May
16:45:25 <jeanne> agenda+ Subgroup checkin - what will be in the May WD? Reminder to update participant lists
16:45:27 <jeanne> agenda+ review Options 1,2,3,5
16:45:27 <jeanne> agenda+ review Options Issues
16:45:56 <jeanne> regrets+ Jan, ANgela, Todd, Sarah
16:51:03 <johnkirkwood> johnkirkwood has joined #silver
17:50:50 <sajkaj> sajkaj has joined #silver
17:52:58 <JF> JF has joined #silver
17:53:41 <JF> agenda?
17:54:00 <sajkaj> present+
17:54:06 <JF> Present+
17:54:07 <sajkaj> zakim, who's here?
17:54:07 <Zakim> Present: jeanne, sajkaj, JF
17:54:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, sajkaj, johnkirkwood, RRSAgent, jeanne, alastairc, jcraig, Zakim, MichaelC, ChrisLoiselle, Rachael, joconnor, AWK
17:54:13 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
17:56:35 <Chuck> Chuck has joined #silver
17:57:33 <Azlan> Azlan has joined #silver
17:57:38 <Chuck> present+
17:58:13 <Chuck> agenda?
17:58:36 <Azlan> present+
17:58:52 <KimD> KimD has joined #silver
17:59:52 <KimD> Present+
18:00:31 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
18:01:09 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #silver
18:01:15 <Lauriat> Lauriat has joined #silver
18:01:16 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
18:01:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- reminder: AGWG- Silver joint meeting 29 April -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:01:23 <bruce_bailey> present+
18:01:27 <Lauriat> Present+
18:01:31 <jennifer_strickland> jennifer_strickland has joined #silver
18:01:34 <jennifer_strickland> present+
18:01:35 <sajkaj> jeanne: Reminder of joint meeting next Thursday 29 April
18:01:36 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/vFtF_2021
18:01:45 <PeterKorn> PeterKorn has joined #silver
18:01:56 <PeterKorn> present+
18:02:23 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #silver
18:02:26 <sajkaj> jeanne: Note the agenda with references to advance reading
18:02:28 <Fazio> present+
18:02:45 <johnkirkwood> present+
18:03:02 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #silver
18:03:15 <Francis_Storr> present+
18:03:19 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
18:03:19 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Timeline and deadlines for May heartbeat Working Draft (WD) -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:03:43 <sajkaj> jeanne: Reminder also for May ?WCAG3 heartbeat publication
18:03:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: Not many changes and not a wide review draft. Showing progress, mainly
18:04:37 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
18:04:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: Requesting everyone/group with content; PR by 30 April, else Google doc (or other) by 28 April
18:05:10 <sajkaj> jeanne: WBS throughout first weeks of May; looking to pub mid-late May
18:05:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: Whatever misses this draft should be targeted for August heartbeat
18:05:40 <PeterKorn> q+
18:05:49 <Lauriat> ack PeterKorn
18:06:11 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Is there yet an outline of what to expect new in August?
18:06:19 <sajkaj> jeanne: Shortly in today's call ...
18:06:26 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
18:06:26 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- ACT -Silver Joint meeting - 14 & 21 May -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:06:49 <sajkaj> jeanne: Announcing joint meetings with ACT mid-late May; two 3 hour meetings
18:07:06 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/ACT_-_Silver_Joint_Meeting_May_2021
18:07:11 <sajkaj> jeanne: 14 and 21 May
18:08:02 <sajkaj> jeanne: No agenda yet; but wiki setup
18:08:26 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
18:08:26 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Subgroup checkin - what will be in the May WD? Reminder to update participant lists -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:09:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: Looking for updates -- and please be sure to update participant list on the subgroup wikis! Needed to create acknowledgements page in heartbeat
18:09:56 <sajkaj> jeanne: Ping me for help if needed
18:10:12 <Fazio> I'll email you for maturity model
18:10:37 <Fazio> Maturity Model is ready for May!
18:10:38 <jeanne> https://github.com/w3c/silver/milestone/3
18:10:49 <PeterKorn> q+
18:10:54 <sajkaj> jeanne: In subgroup reports interested in what's in the May heartbeat and what planned for the August heartbeat
18:10:55 <PeterKorn> q-
18:11:38 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes there're milestone drafts for May, August, and December heartbeats--though too early to specify for December
18:11:57 <sajkaj> jeanne: Example Clear Words has issues for May and August
18:12:28 <sajkaj> q?
18:12:31 <PeterKorn> q+
18:12:42 <Lauriat> ack PeterKorn
18:13:51 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Noting expectation that Conformance Options will be raising topics that should get discussion in the TF, hpefully beginning the 29th and phps decide then on target heartbeats?
18:14:15 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Will involve fair amount of discussion at least in Silver if not also in AGWG
18:14:21 <sajkaj> jeanne: Agree
18:14:35 <PeterKorn> q-
18:14:53 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks whether any specific for the group to know?
18:15:27 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Notes March report with challenges and use cases that could be handled with writing guidelines; so eager to work with relevant teams
18:16:18 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Second set are first report on use cases not yet encompassed in WCAG3; so a report on things to discuss
18:17:08 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #silver
18:17:16 <Wilco> present+
18:18:17 <sajkaj> jeanne: Asks whether people should read both March and April for joint calls on the 29th
18:18:38 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Suggest focus on April as it's the initial "what's missing" conversation
18:19:13 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Also requests people not dive into our Google doc
18:19:20 <SuzanneTaylor> q+ to mention XR Subgroup's request for feedback on initial draft of a Method related to XR subtitles
18:19:35 <sajkaj> topic: Captions
18:19:51 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: Notes XR meeting off line; look for email from Mike Crab
18:20:10 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: Have written an initial draft and a bit different in methods
18:20:30 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: assumes people author with a11y in mind from the start
18:20:43 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: e.g. buiding a game
18:21:06 <SuzanneTaylor> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12o2S3XVltDgsMTjbHPPi0FMTJeoUAKqOrN8jpArkfFQ/edit#heading=h.5kgdq45f1fgi
18:21:16 <Lauriat> ack SuzanneTaylor
18:21:16 <Zakim> SuzanneTaylor, you wanted to mention XR Subgroup's request for feedback on initial draft of a Method related to XR subtitles
18:21:33 <sajkaj> jeanne: Is this ready for feedback from wider W3C?
18:21:48 <sajkaj> SuzanneTaylor: Yes, please, noting Judy is planning to invite Captions CG
18:22:06 <sajkaj> jeanne: Will followup
18:22:25 <sajkaj> topic: Maturity Modeling
18:22:42 <sajkaj> Fazio: Will have something ready for May
18:23:14 <sajkaj> Fazio: Including "proof points" designed to help indicate an organization is doing x, y, etc
18:23:44 <sajkaj> Fazio: Believe we have good structure with alternative methods
18:24:08 <sajkaj> topic: Conformance Architecture Testing
18:25:05 <sajkaj> Francis_Storr: Not content for publication, but testing what we do publish
18:25:11 <JF> Testing based on this: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qoXwyq3Q2uezlAHI0Jn9XL_DD9zDlnF0zegSPdm3hSg/edit#slide=id.p
18:25:13 <sajkaj> jeanne: Excellent to have more testers!
18:25:43 <sajkaj> jeanne: Would like to touch base on how to present on the 29th most usefully
18:26:30 <sajkaj> topic: Structured Content
18:27:12 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Are taking Errors group doc and structuring and match, trying to match priorities
18:27:31 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Now have ability to add self to github issues
18:27:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: Nothing for May, right?
18:27:54 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Yes, we're still trying to grok what we're doing
18:28:11 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Wonders if a buddy for new groups would help the process run more smoothly
18:28:33 <sajkaj> jeanne: Would like to be more available to you--thanks for stepping into something pretty messy
18:28:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: Expect your issues will be August
18:28:53 <sajkaj> jeanne: Has the group looked at github assigned issues
18:28:58 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Yes
18:29:43 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Notes the auto inform from github when I assign myself to an issue--should help
18:30:04 <sajkaj> jeanne: And, if you like, invite me to a mtg
18:30:27 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Should our regular mtg go on a calendar somewhere?
18:31:43 <PeterKorn> ::-)
18:31:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes the new jennifer_strickland Notes draft from Peter and comment from Janina on social vs medical
18:32:07 <sajkaj> jeanne: Perhaps by Wednesday?
18:32:15 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Better for August
18:32:24 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Notes I just started at Mitre
18:32:46 <sajkaj> [congratulations all around to JS!}
18:32:59 <jennifer_strickland> Thanks to all!
18:33:01 <sajkaj> topic: Errors
18:33:33 <sajkaj> dh: Expect to be good for May;
18:33:50 <sajkaj> jeanne: In order to put it in as a method, need to have guideline and outcome
18:33:54 <sajkaj> dh: Yes, we do have
18:34:02 <sajkaj> jeanne: By Wednesday?
18:34:04 <sajkaj> dh:Yes
18:34:41 <sajkaj> topic: Clear Words
18:34:58 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes group has been working on all assigned github; have 4 PR ready
18:35:11 <sajkaj> jeanne: Another already scheduled for August because more complex
18:36:22 <Fazio> I missed our last meeting
18:36:22 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
18:36:22 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- review Options 1,2,3,5 -- taken up [from jeanne]
18:36:30 <Fazio> but Im in functional needs
18:37:25 <sajkaj> jeanne: Circling back to older options review to check we're consistent in how we're doing it now
18:37:26 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BjH_9iEr_JL8d7sE7BoQckmkpaDksKZiH7Q-RdDide4/
18:38:12 <sajkaj> jeanne: We never did pros and cons when we started reviewing these--as we did with the later ones
18:38:23 <laura> laura has joined #silver
18:38:35 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
18:38:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes these feed into Suzanne's doc and we will cover on the 29th
18:38:54 <sajkaj> TOPIC: Option #1
18:39:12 <sajkaj> jeanne: FPWD plus original notions for S/g
18:39:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: giving higher points for current AAA folded in
18:39:54 <sajkaj> jeanne: some may have critical errors; but mainly giving higher points
18:40:07 <SuzanneTaylor> q+ to ask whether the higher points might allow you to skip a level A guideline
18:40:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: Recalls current bar is 3.5 in each overall category; but might it be too high?
18:40:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: Became apparent 3.5 will be too high if we incorporate more of AAA
18:41:13 <Lauriat> ack SuzanneTaylor
18:41:13 <Zakim> SuzanneTaylor, you wanted to ask whether the higher points might allow you to skip a level A guideline
18:41:23 <JF> Q= to ask if 3.5 is too high, or whether 4 is too low...
18:41:48 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Worries someone might take advantage by spending time on one of these AAA and not enough on more basic requirements
18:41:57 <Chuck> q+ to ask what is the practical impact of higher points
18:42:03 <JF> Q+ to ask if 3.5 is too high, or whether 4 is too low...
18:42:05 <sajkaj> q+
18:42:22 <Fazio> Dreaming here: would be great to have WCAG score plus a Maturity score
18:43:29 <Fazio> could be like Bronze has to also level 1 maturity or the maturity level is completely separate and doesn't effect medalling
18:43:55 <sajkaj> jeanne: We may choose to change how we handle? At guideline level?
18:44:02 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Not following
18:44:11 <sajkaj> jennifer_strickland: Sounds like a risk
18:44:49 <jennifer_strickland> Those comments above are attributed to Suzanne
18:44:53 <Fazio> I heard back from my ITU about whether metals make sense too
18:44:57 <Lauriat> ack JF
18:44:57 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask if 3.5 is too high, or whether 4 is too low...
18:45:14 <sajkaj> jf: Suggests 4 is too low, not 3.5 too high
18:45:32 <sajkaj> jeanne: say more
18:45:37 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #silver
18:45:43 <sajkaj> jf: Don't understand why 4 is highest
18:45:46 <Jemma> regret+ Jemma
18:46:00 <sajkaj> jf: how do we chose 4? Maybe we need more room between 0 and max
18:46:50 <JF> lichert
18:46:51 <Fazio> likert
18:47:02 <sajkaj> jeanne: Original reasoning was standardlickert scale
18:47:03 <Fazio> yeah
18:47:35 <Chuck> q?
18:47:59 <jeanne> ack ch
18:47:59 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask what is the practical impact of higher points
18:48:06 <Lauriat> qv?
18:48:24 <sajkaj> Chuck: Also believe 0-4 was aligned with an adjectival mapping
18:48:38 <sajkaj> Chuck: Also, don't know what "more points" would mean
18:49:01 <PeterKorn> There is an infinite amount of space between 3.5 and 4.  3.51, 3.511, etc.
18:49:37 <JF> +1 Peter, but we don't appear to be taking advantage of that
18:49:51 <Chuck> janina:  going back to AAA going into the medals, higher medals, I'm worried.  In one instance I'm aware of, wearing my APA hat, at least one is a requirement more than a solution.
18:50:07 <Chuck> janina:  We have a gap analysis.  None of the solutions will work across all environments.  TTS.
18:50:09 <JF> and, to me, more troubling is that 0 - 3.49999999999999999999999999999 = FAIL
18:50:23 <Chuck> janina:  Not always the case that AAA is worked in and not required.
18:50:40 <Lauriat> ack sajkaj
18:51:00 <sajkaj> jeanne: Noting that next draft will define that we round to first decimal only
18:51:10 <JF> revise: 0 - 3.499 = FAIL
18:51:18 <sajkaj> jeanne: Addressing Janina's concern
18:51:34 <sajkaj> jeanne: Silver is most amorphous, probably; bronze should be snapshot in time
18:52:28 <sajkaj> jeanne: Could include user and usability testing, user design considerations
18:53:02 <sajkaj> jeanne: Want to avoid unintended consequences where testing goes to the end of the process
18:53:31 <sajkaj> jeanne: Would be ways for organizations that wanted to do more to indicate over time how they're doing that
18:53:58 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes Maturity Model currently slated for G
18:54:26 <Fazio> to that end our MM focus is on driving ICT accessibility
18:54:56 <Fazio> q+
18:54:56 <sajkaj> jeanne: Need to make sure that sites continue to remain accessible; that's Maturity Model
18:55:13 <sajkaj> jeanne: Note also that B required for S or G
18:55:23 <sajkaj> jeanne: It's progressive
18:55:44 <Lauriat> ack Fazio
18:56:04 <sajkaj> Fazio: Hoping to drive dashboards and snapshot views of how orgs are doing on building in a11y
18:56:28 <sajkaj> jeanne: Also small business?
18:56:38 <Chuck> q+ to say there's some passion and enthusiasm for reviewing these
18:56:43 <sajkaj> Fazio: Yes, absolutely; haven't worked out the socring yet, but absolutely
18:57:00 <jeanne> skipping back to JF comment 3.44 would fail. Greater than 3.45 would  round up to 3.5
18:57:07 <Lauriat> ack Chuck
18:57:07 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say there's some passion and enthusiasm for reviewing these
18:57:27 <sajkaj> Chuck: We do seem inspired to discuss these in greater detail, and that's good
18:57:58 <Chuck> q?
18:57:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: Option 2 has some AAA in B
18:58:28 <sajkaj> jeanne: Option 3 a variation on 2
18:58:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: AT and/or UX testing
18:58:59 <sajkaj> jeanne: Notes Option 5 very different
18:59:25 <sajkaj> jeanne: Will take this up in another call, phps Tuesday and definitely Thursday
18:59:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: Point based at outcome, not adjectival
18:59:56 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-silver-minutes.html jeanne
19:00:15 <KimD> KimD has left #silver
19:00:21 <Azlan> Azlan has left #silver
19:37:33 <sajkaj> zakim, bye
19:37:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jeanne, sajkaj, JF, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, Azlan, KimD, bruce_bailey, Lauriat, jennifer_strickland, PeterKorn, Fazio,
19:37:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #silver
19:37:36 <Zakim> ... johnkirkwood, Francis_Storr, Wilco, Laura_Carlson
19:37:39 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
19:37:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/23-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
19:59:13 <johnkirkwood> johnkirkwood has joined #silver
20:39:36 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #silver