IRC log of aria-apg on 2021-04-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:51:42 [RRSAgent]
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- 17:51:42 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-irc
- 17:51:54 [Zakim]
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- 17:52:11 [Matt_King]
- MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
- 17:52:18 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 17:52:23 [Matt_King]
- present+
- 17:52:29 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:52:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 17:52:35 [Matt_King]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 17:52:35 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 17:57:48 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 17:58:40 [Jemma]
- Meeting Topic: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-20%2C-2021-Agenda
- 18:01:09 [Jemma]
- present+
- 18:01:21 [Jemma]
- present+ Sarah
- 18:02:03 [Jemma]
- agenda+ setup and reviewing agenda
- 18:02:10 [jongund]
- jongund has joined #aria-apg
- 18:02:22 [Jemma]
- agenda+ ARIA APG redesign project
- 18:02:30 [Jemma]
- agenda+ APG index page
- 18:02:45 [Jemma]
- agenda+ Slider
- 18:03:06 [Jemma]
- agenda+ Jumpto
- 18:03:17 [Jemma]
- agenda+ Accordion example
- 18:03:20 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:03:32 [Jemma]
- zakim, choose victm
- 18:03:32 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'choose victm', Jemma
- 18:03:54 [Jemma]
- zakim, choose a victim
- 18:03:54 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jemma
- 18:04:16 [MarkMccarthy]
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- 18:04:27 [sarah_higley]
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- 18:04:31 [sarah_higley]
- present+
- 18:04:31 [MarkMccarthy]
- present+
- 18:04:55 [Matt_King]
- scribe: mck
- 18:04:56 [siri]
- siri has joined #aria-apg
- 18:05:01 [Jemma]
- Chair: Jemma
- 18:05:10 [ZoeBijl]
- regrets+
- 18:05:48 [Matt_King]
- zakim, tak up item 1
- 18:05:48 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'tak up item 1', Matt_King
- 18:05:57 [Matt_King]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 18:05:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- setup and reviewing agenda -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:06:30 [carmacleod]
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- 18:06:31 [Matt_King]
- Next meeting is next tuesday
- 18:06:47 [Matt_King]
- zakim, next item
- 18:06:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 was just opened, Matt_King
- 18:07:00 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:07:13 [Jemma]
- zakim, take up next item 2
- 18:07:13 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'take up next item 2', Jemma
- 18:07:19 [Jemma]
- zakim, take up next item
- 18:07:19 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- ARIA APG redesign project -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:07:22 [Jemma]
- https://wai-aria-practices.netlify.app/aria-practices/
- 18:07:58 [Matt_King]
- jemma: that is url for mock up of phase 1
- 18:08:11 [Matt_King]
- mk: this all very tenatitive, that is the mock up is
- 18:08:23 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/bocoup/wai-aria-practices
- 18:08:24 [Matt_King]
- just a starting point for discussion.
- 18:08:36 [Matt_King]
- This repo has all the docs
- 18:08:53 [Matt_King]
- We have meeting tomorrow afternoon
- 18:09:36 [Matt_King]
- It is a planning/admin meeting with bocoup and w3c staff.
- 18:09:53 [Matt_King]
- zakim, next item
- 18:09:53 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- APG index page -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:10:03 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1859
- 18:10:09 [Jemma]
- present+
- 18:10:32 [Matt_King]
- jg: the aria-lable indexing now works
- 18:10:32 [Jemma]
- https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/update-example-index/coverage/index.html#example_coding
- 18:11:12 [Jemma]
- https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/update-example-index/coverage/index.html
- 18:12:01 [Matt_King]
- Added a new table in coverage report to document which components use prototype or class and whether they use svg, and whether force color adjust is used, and where before and after pseudo classes are used.
- 18:12:19 [Jemma]
- https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LPlU1MuQ/
- 18:12:28 [Jemma]
- CSV Files of Role, Properties and States Coverage
- 18:12:28 [Jemma]
- Roles with no Guidance or Examples (27)
- 18:12:28 [Jemma]
- Roles with at Least One Guidance or Example (9)
- 18:12:28 [Jemma]
- Roles with More than One Guidance or Example (33)
- 18:12:29 [Jemma]
- Properties and States with no Examples (24)
- 18:12:29 [Jemma]
- Properties and States with One Examples (15)
- 18:12:29 [Jemma]
- Properties and States with More than One Example (9)
- 18:12:29 [Jemma]
- Example Coding Practices
- 18:12:30 [Matt_King]
- Example: 22 examples use svg
- 18:13:02 [Matt_King]
- Also documents which use keycode
- 18:13:40 [Matt_King]
- Carolyn: should we also document mouse vs pointer events
- 18:14:04 [sarah_higley]
- so pessimistic. I bet we can merge by 2049!
- 18:14:40 [CurtBellew]
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- 18:15:43 [Matt_King]
- sarah: just about to submit a review
- 18:15:59 [Matt_King]
- A few minor syntax issues
- 18:16:16 [Matt_King]
- Jemma: when report gets run?
- 18:16:25 [Matt_King]
- jg: it is manual, not part of a process now.
- 18:16:52 [CurtBellew]
- present+
- 18:18:25 [Jemma]
- matt: we may be able to merge this by next week.
- 18:18:36 [Matt_King]
- zakim, next item
- 18:18:36 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- Slider -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:18:38 [Jemma]
- after the review by Sarah and work by jon
- 18:18:56 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857
- 18:19:04 [Matt_King]
- jemma: James Choels left some commnts
- 18:19:11 [Matt_King]
- jg: added seek slider
- 18:19:28 [Matt_King]
- do we want 2 sliders in separate examples?
- 18:19:36 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1847
- 18:20:10 [Matt_King]
- and, the seek slider represents 5 minutes, and valuetext reps minutes and seconds
- 18:20:10 [Jemma]
- "In aria-valuetext, the number of seconds is zero-padded so you get announcements like, "1 minute 0 0 seconds" and "2 minutes 0 5 seconds"."
- 18:20:19 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593
- 18:20:38 [Matt_King]
- Temperature slider is fixed point decimal with the word degress appended.
- 18:20:40 [Jemma]
- example is https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/slider-valuetext/examples/slider/slider-valuetext.html
- 18:21:13 [Matt_King]
- James asked if the value should include range info, like 1 minute of 5 minutes?
- 18:21:44 [Matt_King]
- mk: talk about should we have sperate pages for each slider
- 18:21:58 [Matt_King]
- jg: makes it easier to manage code and maybe easier to read
- 18:22:15 [Matt_King]
- jemma and marc: agree
- 18:22:20 [Matt_King]
- easier to read
- 18:22:40 [Matt_King]
- jg: info spread across more pages, e.g., have to look at multiple pages for all info about valuetext
- 18:23:14 [siri]
- present +
- 18:23:39 [Matt_King]
- mk: I think one example per page for ximplicity
- 18:23:51 [MarkMccarthy]
- s/ximplicity/simplicity
- 18:24:56 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593
- 18:25:03 [Jemma]
- "Do we want the seek bar to indicate the maximum value (i.e. the total duration) in its value text? For example, "1 minute 30 seconds of 5 minutes"."
- 18:25:13 [Matt_King]
- mk: now what about the question of range info in the valuetext value?
- 18:25:49 [Matt_King]
- jg: example: should valuetext be like 1 min of 5 min
- 18:27:40 [Jemma]
- car: it would be pretty verbose
- 18:27:48 [Jemma]
- adding info of max value
- 18:28:11 [Jemma]
- ...users would need to hear just once of max value
- 18:28:17 [Matt_King]
- mk: could there be downsides to putting range info in a valutext if people do this this consistently across patterns
- 18:28:35 [Jemma]
- present+ jamesn
- 18:28:43 [Jemma]
- present+ brayan garaventa
- 18:28:47 [Jemma]
- present+ brayangaraventa
- 18:28:51 [Matt_King]
- carolyn: Maybe do this on initial focus, but then not repeat it as you change the value so it is not repeated over and over
- 18:29:03 [Matt_King]
- mk: I think that is a really good idea
- 18:31:12 [Matt_King]
- mk: How about we provide it on focus but then when the value changes, either automatically or by icrement, the range info is not repeated
- 18:31:43 [Matt_King]
- jg: A focus event would add the info and then the move to function would not.
- 18:32:00 [Matt_King]
- Might be hard to explain to other people
- 18:32:37 [sarah_higley]
- +100 to "we need to realize that not everything we write, people are going to read"
- 18:32:41 [Matt_King]
- Need to have clear documentation.
- 18:32:56 [Matt_King]
- mk: would be part of accessibility features section
- 18:33:31 [Matt_King]
- Siri: Should valuemin and max be in minutes or seconds?
- 18:33:47 [Matt_King]
- Right now in seconds
- 18:34:14 [Matt_King]
- jg: that is part of reason for using valuetext, because seconds is hard to understand
- 18:34:57 [Matt_King]
- jemma: do we have consensus on including max in valuetext on focus?
- 18:35:17 [Matt_King]
- Downside is needs documentation, that is a bit complex\
- 18:35:40 [Matt_King]
- upside: Gives more info to users
- 18:36:48 [siri]
- hearing the 1 min 20 sec out of 300 might be confusing
- 18:36:54 [Matt_King]
- curt: reminds me of how grouping works, reports it on initial focus
- 18:37:01 [MarkMccarthy]
- +1 Curt
- 18:37:39 [Jemma]
- +1
- 18:37:49 [Jemma]
- to Curt
- 18:39:26 [Jemma]
- This is the case of Media Seek slider - avoid verbosity and still add max value of the slider in meek slider example
- 18:39:58 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:41:08 [Matt_King]
- Jemma: let's give it a try
- 18:41:19 [siri]
- acting like legend in fieldset :)
- 18:41:32 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1857#issuecomment-820771593
- 18:41:32 [Matt_King]
- jg: OK, will do that and then separate into two example pages
- 18:42:04 [Matt_King]
- Jemma: what about James' ther feedback; already addressed.
- 18:42:11 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 18:42:11 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- Jumpto -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:42:20 [sarah_higley]
- scribe: sarah_higley
- 18:42:30 [sarah_higley]
- Jemma: where are we for this feature?
- 18:42:50 [sarah_higley]
- Jon: I updated the PR, it's added using the app.js script, which adds it to all the examples now
- 18:43:04 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1860
- 18:43:06 [sarah_higley]
- MK: what else is in app.js?
- 18:43:25 [sarah_higley]
- Jon: app.js has support notices and stuff
- 18:43:48 [sarah_higley]
- Jon: so, it has an IIFE to...
- 18:43:57 [sarah_higley]
- (general looking up code words)
- 18:43:58 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/blob/main/examples/js/app.js
- 18:44:23 [sarah_higley]
- MK: it's not that important , since this stuff is almost certainly going to get redone as part of the redesign project. We should have somebody do a code review here
- 18:44:37 [sarah_higley]
- Matt: I think from functionality from what I looked at, it was already good
- 18:45:37 [sarah_higley]
- MK: we should get a code review on that one
- 18:46:37 [sarah_higley]
- zakim, next item
- 18:46:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- Accordion example -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:47:00 [sarah_higley]
- Jemma: accordion example, this is Sarah's example
- 18:47:23 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1830
- 18:47:39 [Matt_King]
- scribe: mck
- 18:47:46 [Matt_King]
- There are 2 sub PRs as well
- 18:47:55 [Matt_King]
- They are linked in referenced examples
- 18:48:06 [Matt_King]
- Removed arrow keys to move between heading
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- General cleanup:
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- Updates JS file to a class syntax
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- Update classnames to be lowercase
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- Fix some border-radius issues in focus styling
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- Updated example page wrapper id attributes to match other example pages
- 18:48:27 [Jemma]
- Behavior changes:
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- Removed arrow key and force-one-open functionality
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- Updated tests to reflect behavior change
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- Removed section that talked about focus styling for "enhanced keyboard interaction"
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- Removed arrow key/home/end rows in example page keyboard table
- 18:48:29 [Jemma]
- Removed aria-disabled row in example page attributes table
- 18:48:50 [Matt_King]
- sarah: Might have also removed the requirement that one open at a time
- 18:49:04 [Jemma]
- 1830 resolve https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1819
- 18:49:28 [Matt_King]
- sarah: now have version where all canbe collapsed.
- 18:49:49 [sarah_higley]
- SH: So this is from the discussion we had earlier, where I removed the arrow key to navigate between headings
- 18:49:49 [Matt_King]
- two different ways: one is by having a switch and one is by having 2 sperate examples
- 18:50:12 [Matt_King]
- mk: you gave the group a menu of choices--what way do we like better?
- 18:50:16 [Matt_King]
- sarah: yes
- 18:50:30 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834
- 18:50:34 [Matt_King]
- the 2 different draft examples are 1833 and 1834
- 18:50:39 [sarah_higley]
- the two different options for supporting only-one-at-a-time accordions are https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1833 and https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834
- 18:50:46 [Jemma]
- https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html
- 18:50:47 [Matt_King]
- we need to choose one oor the other of those
- 18:50:56 [Matt_King]
- which one does the group like better
- 18:50:56 [Jemma]
- https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion-group.html
- 18:51:46 [Matt_King]
- mk: the arrow key change is independent?
- 18:51:53 [Jemma]
- remove arrow key and update documentation for #1819
- 18:52:10 [sarah_higley]
- MK: so the one that removes arrow keys, we can just merge that one, and then talk about the two drafts later?
- 18:52:30 [Matt_King]
- sarah: yes, changes key behavior and updates the code and documentation. code not uses a class
- 18:53:05 [Matt_King]
- james: We shouldn't merge arrow key behavior without making all sections collapsable
- 18:53:14 [Matt_King]
- sarah: I can make that change
- 18:53:16 [sarah_higley]
- JN: let's first make it so you can collapse the first section, then we can merge
- 18:53:50 [sarah_higley]
- MK: we should merge 1830 first, then choose between 1833 and 1834 as the next
- 18:53:50 [Jemma]
- s/documentation for #1819/documentation for #1830
- 18:53:55 [Matt_King]
- mk: we should merge 1830 first and then choose between 1833 and 1834 as next step
- 18:56:05 [Matt_King]
- sarah: the version that forces one open at a time is a step by step process, kind of like a wizzard.
- 18:56:11 [Jemma]
- https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/accordion-step-example/examples/accordion/accordion.html
- 18:56:17 [Matt_King]
- the other one is just presentation of content
- 18:56:40 [Matt_King]
- jemma: let's have people look this week and then make a decision next week
- 18:56:41 [sarah_higley]
- Jemma: Next meeting, we'll choose one of the two options
- 18:56:48 [Matt_King]
- or make decision now?
- 18:57:05 [Matt_King]
- carolyn: I think it makes sense to have it on next week's agenda
- 18:57:29 [Matt_King]
- Carolyn: one other topic, seems like the editor's draft seems out of date
- 18:57:42 [Jemma]
- https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
- 18:57:46 [Matt_King]
- seems like it broke wen we changed from master to main
- 18:57:52 [carmacleod]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1853
- 18:58:41 [Matt_King]
- mk: whenever we merge to main, the editor's draft should be updated
- 18:59:15 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:59:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 19:00:52 [Jemma]
- siri, it is 1859
- 19:02:36 [Jemma]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/actions/workflows/deploy.yml
- 19:11:48 [jongund_]
- jongund_ has joined #aria-apg