14:51:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #md-odrl-profile
14:51:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-irc
14:51:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:51:16 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jo_
14:51:34 <jo_> Meeting Rights Automation Community Group Teleconference
14:51:49 <jo_> s/Meeting/meeting:/
14:51:57 <jo_> chair: jo
14:52:12 <jo_> regrets: renato, nigel
14:54:36 <jo_> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/blob/gh-pages/agendas/md-odrl-profile-agenda-2021-04-14.md
14:54:54 <jo_> Topic: Admin
14:55:32 <jo_> Minutes of last meeting https://www.w3.org/2021/03/31-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html
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15:02:38 <Ilya> Ilya has joined #md-odrl-profile
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15:03:12 <Ilya> anyone else having issues into zoom?  Meeting passcode isn't getting accepted...
15:03:44 <Caspar_MacRae> I can't connect to Zoom either
15:05:21 <Ilya>  https://mit.zoom.us/j/92442754518?pwd=RDZiUXM3SWh4bWgyM3FCQ09TRHNnZz09
15:06:17 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
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15:06:52 <wseltzer> present+
15:06:56 <jo_> scribe: joshuaCornejo
15:08:30 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: kick-off
15:08:37 <joshuaCornejo> ... with minutes of the last meeting
15:08:41 <wseltzer> s|https://mit.zoom.us/j/92442754518?pwd=RDZiUXM3SWh4bWgyM3FCQ09TRHNnZz09
15:08:47 <wseltzer> s|https://mit.zoom.us/j/92442754518?pwd=RDZiUXM3SWh4bWgyM3FCQ09TRHNnZz09||G
15:08:58 <joshuaCornejo> ... are there any objections ?
15:09:00 <jo_> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last weeking
15:09:14 <wseltzer> s/weeking/meeting/
15:09:24 <jo_> Topic: FSA
15:10:14 <wseltzer> https://www.w3.org/community/about/process/final/
15:10:46 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: I am strategy lead and council to W3C team. I heard you had some questions about the community licensing agreement. I gather you are looking to licence under the final spec agreement. The goal of this is to get patent and copyright commitment for work that goes into W3C.
15:10:59 <joshuaCornejo> ... the work is into essential claims that is in here and in the W3C patent policy.
15:11:49 <joshuaCornejo> ... if something is normatively required to agree to commend royalties to use of patent that are essential to the use of the spec. It is a narrow commitment.
15:12:21 <joshuaCornejo> ... it doesn't apply to things that might be optional or alternative implementations. It is essential claims from section 10.3
15:12:33 <joshuaCornejo> ... (reads 10.3)
15:12:50 <jo_> present: wendy_seltzer, ben, jo, ivan_kirchev, adam, belen, caspar, josh, laura, markB, markD, ilya, Stephanie_Toyos
15:13:02 <joshuaCornejo> ... that is the licence that the FSA asks
15:13:25 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: the question is about the ratification of the extensions of the ODRL language
15:14:05 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I can see how the description you provided relates to a software specification, but with ODRL we are talking about an ontology. So it doesn't provide any guidance on what implementation is - or at least the meaning of implementation is vaguer.
15:14:23 <joshuaCornejo> ... I wonder if Wendy can ratify what this means when is an ontology rather than a software specification.
15:15:02 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: it might mean that no patents are related to the ontology as there are no essential claims if there is no patent.
15:15:10 <jo_> s/ratify/clarify
15:15:18 <joshuaCornejo> ... If there is no patentable technology related to the spec.
15:15:40 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: it depends on how to interpret
15:15:45 <joshuaCornejo> ... is it a narrow one or wide one?
15:16:42 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: if there is a spec that describes an algorithm to for implementation and says "YOU MUST USE" - that is an essential claim that is patentable. If there are 2 algorithms, then neither is essential as there are alternatives.
15:17:11 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: in a relatable, you can think about HTML (another standard of W3C), that doesn't specify how to implement it
15:17:16 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: hmmm
15:17:39 <joshuaCornejo> ... thinking about the word "entangle"
15:17:55 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: it is very applicable to the legal world
15:18:09 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: I wonder if we can involve Stephanie, and does it clarify anything?
15:18:20 <joshuaCornejo> Stephanie: From my perspective it is all understood
15:18:38 <joshuaCornejo> Ivan: I think we're on the same page, just wanted to confirm what we agreed internally
15:19:10 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: that could be that, inviting everybody else to ask questions to Wendy. Questions on this topic or any other topic?
15:19:28 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: a question for Wendy is: why do I have to sign this? What is the benefit?
15:19:49 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: is your group seeking to move this to the W3C recommendation?
15:19:55 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: not necessarily
15:20:25 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: do you think multiple groups would find useful this technology, and that there is assurance that their creators have made?
15:20:47 <joshuaCornejo> ... makes it easier for others to pick up this work and make use of it
15:22:17 <joshuaCornejo> ... we might have members asking: how can I make sure I am not getting into a patent entanglement? So either they have signed into this agreement or joined the effort of the W3C working group.
15:22:53 <joshuaCornejo> Ivan: are you asking for the contributors to ask for any prior commitments of the work they are contributing?
15:23:23 <joshuaCornejo> Wendy: no, when a community group moves to a working group. W3C has a policy that working groups makes royalty free commitments.
15:26:05 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: trying to summarise, as a participant of the group you have already signed. The FSA is additional, but we don't have particular plans at the moment.
15:26:28 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I think to summarise on your summary.
15:27:04 <joshuaCornejo> ... is the attraction on signing this FSA is a royalty free basis, if you are a third party and would use it on a royalty free basis.
15:27:14 <joshuaCornejo> ... as it removes the IP question.
15:27:18 <jo_> noting that the whole thing may be moot since there may not be any IP entailed anyway
15:27:36 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: is this available from the W3C website?
15:27:52 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: is linked in the agenda, the email from last week and today's minutes
15:27:56 <jo_> https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/final/
15:28:19 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: is there anything else anybody else wants to raise?
15:28:41 <joshuaCornejo> ... moving on, next topic
15:28:46 <jo_> Topic: Drafting a playbook for FISD
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15:29:31 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I had a couple more conversations with David Anderson, he has suggested the date of the 24 of June, it will be great to get an indication now. Because the quicker we can get it into the FISD calendar, the better.
15:29:49 <jo_> preset+ Michelle, olga
15:30:10 <joshuaCornejo> ... I will go back to David and say that this is a good date for us. He can mark it down in the calendar.
15:30:22 <joshuaCornejo> ... the other point, we have discussed which kind of structure we're going to have.
15:30:34 <jo_> present+ Jeremy
15:30:50 <joshuaCornejo> Present+ Michelle, Olga
15:31:23 <joshuaCornejo> ... a 3 minute video, and a demo of the actual translation of PDF licences into ODRL. If anyone else has any other demos they would like to lead, email me or the mailing list.
15:31:32 <joshuaCornejo> And then for the final half an hour do a Q&A
15:31:42 <joshuaCornejo> .. this is what keeps audiences there
15:32:15 <joshuaCornejo> ... we've spoken about a moderator, that can speak with skepticism and capture the audience better
15:32:39 <joshuaCornejo> ... has anyone got any comments on the Q&A so far ?
15:32:52 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: it all makes sense, before I forget I have to action you on this
15:32:57 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: OK
15:33:02 <jo_> ACTION: Ben to send his draft agenda to the CG List as amended by subsequent discussion on this call
15:33:05 <joshuaCornejo> ... I will follow up with a couple of you
15:33:31 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: who did you have in mind as a moderator?
15:33:45 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I have someone in mind, but I've not spoken to them.
15:34:10 <joshuaCornejo> ... someone that is intrigued but skeptical.
15:34:49 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: we get calls almost every day on how do we get real time data, but I've not had anyone talk about ODRL to unlock that data.
15:35:32 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: do you mean a data owner ?
15:36:33 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: the question who is the thinker, and who is thinking into the fine grain of permissioning of these data
15:36:45 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: and these people talking to you, how are they doing these entitlements?
15:37:47 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: they are using AWS, but still old school. We are doing all these cool things with the infrastructure, but we don't see a lot of customers
15:38:43 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: you clearly have a perspective from the organisation you represent. There are 2 parts of this question: who is interested in modernising their infrastructure, and who thinks the cloud is unlocking new potential.
15:39:08 <joshuaCornejo> ... you can see we have many members in this group that respond to the latter question.
15:39:37 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: you can lift and shift your market data, but in the long term you need to think about digital rights management.
15:39:56 <joshuaCornejo> ... we need to think how do you use digital rights to trigger your business.
15:40:15 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: further comments from folks here?
15:40:33 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we need at least 2 people that would speak persuasively of their view of their future operations.
15:41:53 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: I think needs to be a technologist type person, we get all the market data licensing, but the way the technology is used has changed - the technologist wants to get a million miles an hour to get these into cool new products. We are trying to enable speed.
15:42:53 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: to your point, we get a lots of questions about historical questions. I can't talk much about that. We do spend a lot of time and energy to lower the barriers. I believe ODRL is an enabler, you can think to get it much faster to your customers.
15:43:37 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: I am conscious of the time, Ben you have an action
15:43:47 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: you are referring to content originators
15:44:05 <joshuaCornejo> Adam: it can be either sides of the equation, everybody should be thinking about that.
15:44:15 <joshuaCornejo> ... it really serves both sides of the business.
15:44:23 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: Ben if you can kick this off
15:44:34 <joshuaCornejo> ... Adam if you con contribute your views o n this
15:44:51 <joshuaCornejo> S/o n/on
15:45:02 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: we should present the profile itself
15:45:12 <joshuaCornejo> ... as it was an objective of this group
15:45:24 <joshuaCornejo> ... and it was a big achievement
15:45:46 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: next topic is update from Ben and Mark on status
15:45:50 <jo_> Topic: Status Update
15:46:30 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: one thing I wanted to share with people: we have talked about a temporal model, to support models or do forecasting. The group agreed we should bake that into the model, so every player in the supplier change can share a picture of the past, present and future
15:46:44 <joshuaCornejo> ... the best place is in the core of the W3C group for ODRL
15:46:50 <joshuaCornejo> ... (shares his screen)
15:47:29 <joshuaCornejo> ... I have written a temporal draft
15:47:51 <joshuaCornejo> ... the ODRL core has been very supportive
15:48:22 <joshuaCornejo> ... my company most likely will be developing this now
15:48:34 <joshuaCornejo> ... it is a very robust model and getting a lot of interrogation
15:48:54 <joshuaCornejo> ... also in the group of ODRL they have been looking at formalising the semantics of ODRL
15:49:00 <joshuaCornejo> ... the work has only just started
15:49:41 <joshuaCornejo> ... finally coming back to our own standard
15:49:50 <joshuaCornejo> ... I have been working with Refinitiv data lately
15:50:01 <joshuaCornejo> ... they have a model to describe the data
15:50:11 <joshuaCornejo> ... going through for data at scale
15:50:24 <joshuaCornejo> ... it raises a few questions, but the model matches very well
15:50:36 <joshuaCornejo> ... and we can very efficiently query large volumes of data
15:50:57 <joshuaCornejo> ... but a few edge cases
15:51:10 <joshuaCornejo> ... (describes Deutsche Borse)
15:56:44 <jo__> jo__ has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:07 <jo_> ACTION: Ben to send email about learnings from the discussion
16:00:12 <joshuaCornejo> ... what I've learnt from this discussion and from the Refinitiv data and I will send an email to this group
16:00:19 <jo_> Topic: AOB
16:01:01 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: maybe for next time to talk about contributor agreements - lots of firms engage that way.
16:01:48 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: are any of those publicly available? If not, let us keep this first version of the standard around market data, and publish our first draft.
16:01:58 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: I am actioning you Michelle
16:02:40 <jo_> ACTION: Michelle to come back on research on Contributor agreements
16:02:59 <jo_> Many thanks to Josh for scribing
16:03:14 <jo_> --- meeting closed ---
16:03:22 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:05:42 <jo_> scribeoptions: nologo
16:05:48 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:05:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:07:49 <jo_> scribeoptions: -oldStyle -nodraft
16:07:52 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:09:12 <jo_> s/<Ilya> anyone else having issues into zoom? Meeting passcode isn't getting accepted...//
16:09:27 <jo_> s/<Caspar_MacRae> I can't connect to Zoom either//
16:09:44 <jo_> s/<wseltzer> s|//
16:12:03 <jo_> s/preset+ Michelle, olga//
16:12:13 <jo_> present+ michelle, olga
16:13:33 <jo_> s/S/o n/on//
16:13:42 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:13:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:14:20 <jo_> s/o n/on/
16:15:31 <jo_> scribeoptions: -oldStyle -nodraft
16:16:02 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:18:29 <jo_> s/I can't connect to Zoom either//
16:18:31 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:19:10 <jo_> s/anyone else having issues into zoom? Meeting passcode isn't getting accepted...//
16:19:21 <jo_> s/s|//
16:19:52 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:19:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:22:08 <jo_> rrsagent, bye
16:22:08 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-actions.rdf :
16:22:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to send his draft agenda to the CG List as amended by subsequent discussion on this call [1]
16:22:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-irc#T15-33-02
16:22:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to send email about learnings from the discussion [2]
16:22:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-00-07
16:22:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michelle to come back on research on Contributor agreements [3]
16:22:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-02-40
16:22:15 <jo_> zakim, bye
16:22:15 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been wendy_seltzer, ben, jo, ivan_kirchev, adam, belen, caspar, josh, laura, markB, markD, ilya, Stephanie_Toyos, Jeremy, Michelle,
16:22:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #md-odrl-profile
16:22:18 <Zakim> ... Olga