13:46:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
13:46:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-wai-curricula-irc
13:46:13 <Zakim> inviting RRSAgent
13:46:14 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:46:15 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Daniel
13:46:43 <Daniel> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference
13:46:55 <Daniel> Date: April 13, 2021
13:47:01 <Daniel> Chair: Daniel
15:02:26 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #wai-curricula
15:05:18 <shadi> present+
15:06:09 <sloandr> present+
15:06:26 <rperez> rperez has joined #wai-curricula
15:06:30 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
15:06:39 <Howard> present+ Howard
15:06:55 <Howard> scribe: Howard
15:07:03 <Daniel> zakim, take upt next
15:07:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take upt next', Daniel
15:07:28 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wai-curricula
15:07:38 <Howard> zakim, take up next
15:07:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:07:55 <Daniel> zakim, take up item 2
15:07:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- FYIs -- actions on my part based on survey results -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:08:03 <CarlosD> present+
15:09:01 <Howard> Daniel: feedback - don't use 'ensure'. Use another verb.
15:09:30 <Howard> ... Topic "enough time" should be split into other parts, such as interaction and feedback.
15:10:02 <Howard> ... Fonts and sizes need to be balanced and improved contrast ratios.
15:10:15 <Howard> zakim, take up next
15:10:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:10:33 <Howard> zakim, take up item 3
15:10:33 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Cross references to developers and authors -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:11:03 <Howard> Daniel: current state of cross-reference may imply that ...
15:11:44 <Howard> designers and content authors need to do these.
15:12:22 <Howard> Are these instructions to designers for what to tell other roles what to do going too far?
15:13:13 <Daniel> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/
15:14:38 <Howard> Daniel: these cross-references are spread through entire curriculum.
15:15:24 <Howard> Roberto: does not think this is going to far. In fact, it's necessary.
15:15:50 <Howard> Carlos: agrees with Roberto - not going to far.
15:16:19 <Howard> ... Similar requirement in the other modules, including developer modules.
15:18:12 <Howard> Dave: Concurs with Roberto and Carlos. Critical part of designer curricula that ...
15:19:00 <Howard> ... they understand the requirements they have - i.e. include designing interactions ...
15:19:15 <Howard> ... that can be implemented in an accessible way. Need to emphasize this.
15:19:46 <Howard> Roberto: Designer needs to provide the need for an accessible label even ...
15:19:57 <Howard> ... if they are not doing the coding to implement it.
15:20:33 <Howard> Estella: agrees with above but questions use of 'ensure' to explain it. Verb ...
15:20:46 <Howard> ... is too strong.
15:20:57 <Howard> Daniel: 'ensure' will be replaced.
15:22:10 <Howard> zakim, take up item 4
15:22:10 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- "Informational Design" Correct scope? Correct terminology? -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:23:46 <Howard> Daniel: some pointed out this topic name may not be the most accurate, or best terminology ...
15:24:08 <Howard> ... for example, the cover things like multimedia.
15:25:06 <Howard> Daniel: for example, in this module forms, tables are covered. Also headings are covered.
15:25:21 <Howard> Some have said other items should be included that are not there.
15:26:32 <Howard> Carlos: Does find what's included there as important. But should have other ...
15:26:53 <Howard> ... topics such as graphic design. Maybe moving other topics from other modules ...
15:27:06 <Howard> ... to this one but graphic design is key.
15:27:47 <Howard> ... Graphic design might include appropriate alternate text for images.
15:28:32 <Howard> Perhaps drop the module on images and include that content here.
15:29:33 <Howard> Carlos: did suggest in his feedback which modules to move various ...
15:29:47 <Howard> ... image topics to.
15:30:22 <Howard> Roberto: Perhaps we should include more on 'data visualization.'
15:31:00 <Howard> ... Includes use of charts, tables and how you convey complex data ...
15:31:06 <Howard> ... in a visual way.
15:32:04 <Howard> Howard: maybe 'data visualization', because it is so complex and a ...
15:32:18 <Howard> ... specialty, should be addressed elsewhere.
15:32:45 <Howard> Daniel: value in mentioning 'data visualization' at least.
15:33:33 <Howard> Shadi: A la wikipedia, information design derives from 'graphic design.'
15:34:05 <Howard> ... Agrees that 'Informational Design' is probably much broader than what ...
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15:34:44 <Howard> ... we cover but no clear definitions as to the meaning of 'informational Design.'
15:36:49 <Howard> Daniel: ID is usually covered broader in other courses he has reviewed: i.e. how ...
15:37:04 <Howard> information is represented, graphics, images.
15:38:24 <Howard> Estella: using text/language that is easy to understand should also be included...
15:38:37 <Howard> ... I.e. avoid complex language.
15:39:23 <Howard> Shadi: placement of text, color of headings, make a difference of how readable ...
15:39:42 <Howard> ... and usable a page/site is.
15:40:48 <Howard> Daniel: Hears that group is not quite on agreement on whether module topics should be broadened.
15:41:29 <Howard> He will come up with a proposal to address the general feedback on this.
15:42:05 <Howard> David: noticed that subjects such as 'error messages' are not included.
15:43:00 <Howard> ... Is it the responsibility of designers for areas such as 'error messages'?
15:43:17 <Howard> ... Or just how these messages are laid out?
15:44:17 <Howard> David: may want to expand what we have with the ...
15:44:45 <Howard> ... expectation that we will have to reorganize it later.
15:46:15 <Howard> Roberto: there's another project where responsibilities are assigned ...
15:46:32 <Howard> ... by role.
15:47:08 <Howard> Daniel: existing project on mapping responsibilities to roles. Includes...
15:47:34 <Howard> ... a decision tree and set of definitions for these roles.
15:47:53 <Howard> ... Reminder that we will be developing modules for content authors.
15:48:54 <Howard> Brings up broader question of how much of this curricula belongs to just ...
15:49:13 <Howard> ... informational designer and how much to other roles.
15:49:36 <Howard> Carlos: agrees with David suggestion to get as much content in this ...
15:50:06 <Howard> ... module as we can and then perhaps to place it on other sections ...
15:50:17 <Howard> ... that address other roles.
15:51:23 <Howard> Carlos: to classify, not suggesting to put the actual content for other ...
15:51:44 <Howard> ... roles in this module but just not these are topics that have to be addressed in ...
15:51:52 <Howard> ... other roles.
15:52:36 <Howard> Shadi: perhaps we make cross-references to other modules instead of ...
15:52:54 <Howard> ... including all the topics that come up.
15:53:20 <Howard> Daniel: will try to expand the scope of this module.
15:53:34 <Howard> zakin, take up item 5
15:53:42 <Howard> zakim, take up item 5
15:53:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Merging current "Page Layout" and "Navigation and Orientation" -- taken up [from Daniel]
15:54:49 <Howard> Daniel: considering merging 'page layout' and 'navigation and orientation.'
15:55:51 <Howard> Could add 'font size' to Page Layout', for example.
15:56:23 <Howard> David: makes him nervous when looks at the topics currently in each module.
15:56:54 <Howard> ... Worries that we lose some content if we combine these modules.
15:57:29 <Howard> ... Looking at some text books to see how these topics are addressed...
15:58:00 <Howard> ... elsewhere. For example, in a 'A Web for Everyone' they use the term ...
15:58:15 <Howard> ... 'Wayfinding.' Maybe this would be a better term.
15:58:37 <Howard> Daniel: will take a look at this change of terms.
15:59:04 <sloandr> Here's the table of contents for "A Web for Everyone", as an example of organisation of content: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/a-web-for-everyone/details/table-of-contents/
15:59:16 <Howard> Carlos: shares David's perspective on being reluctant to combining 2 modules.
15:59:37 <Howard> ... Believes the scope would become too broad if we combine these two.
16:00:04 <Howard> Roberto: for now, agrees with the separation. Merging would hurt ...
16:00:09 <Howard> ... one of the two.
16:00:45 <Howard> Shadi: right now a lot of overlap. Likes Roberto's suggestion.
16:01:07 <Howard> Roberto: perhaps the emphasis could be that 'page layout' refers ...
16:01:27 <Howard> ... to one specific page as opposed to 'navigation and orientation.'
16:02:39 <Howard> Daniel: will work on clarifying each topic area.
16:03:18 <Howard> David: One specific suggestion: Rename 'responsive design' to ...
16:04:11 <Howard> ... 'flexible design.' Latter could include text enlargement by user.
16:04:18 <Howard> Daniel: will consider this.
16:04:51 <Howard> Everyone: kudos to Daniel for covering a broad topic.
16:06:20 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
16:08:04 <Daniel> regrets: Gerhard
16:08:10 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:08:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel