IRC log of silver on 2021-04-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:09:48 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-silver-irc
13:09:51 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:09:51 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:10:18 [jeanne]
present:
13:10:18 [jeanne]
chair: Shawn, jeanne
13:10:18 [jeanne]
present+
13:10:18 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
13:10:18 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:10:19 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:10:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-silver-minutes.html jeanne
13:10:19 [jeanne]
q?
13:12:10 [mgarrish]
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13:16:39 [jeanne]
agenda+ calendar reminders and announcements: AGWG All-day, survey for joint ACT meeting, 30 min AGWG issues meeting
13:16:42 [jeanne]
agenda+ Issue handling training
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13:21:41 [Lauriat]
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agenda?
13:21:55 [Lauriat]
Present+
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present+
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13:30:02 [alastairc]
present+
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13:30:23 [sajkaj]
present+
13:30:32 [Fazio]
present+
13:30:34 [alastairc]
agenda?
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Present+
13:30:59 [Makoto]
present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
13:31:51 [jeanne]
scribe:Sheri_B-H
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present+
13:31:57 [Lauriat]
Zakim, take up item 1
13:31:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- calendar reminders and announcements: AGWG All-day, survey for joint ACT meeting, 30 min AGWG issues meeting -- taken up [from jeanne]
13:32:19 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne's announcements: Reminder of all day joint meeting for April 29 with AGWG
13:32:44 [jeanne]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Apr/0051.html
13:32:59 [Sheri_B-H]
Jean's second announcement: next All day Joint meeting with ACT, poll in IRC for date
13:33:08 [Azlan]
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13:33:09 [mgarrish]
present+
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13:33:16 [Azlan]
present+
13:33:18 [sarahhorton]
present+
13:33:36 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne's third announcement: 30 minutes after this call, we are invited to the first 30 min of AGWG for live issue processing
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present+
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13:34:23 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
13:34:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Issue handling training -- taken up [from jeanne]
13:34:28 [laura]
present+ Laura_Carlson
13:34:32 [ChrisLoiselle]
present+
13:35:04 [Sheri_B-H]
Alastair to discuss how AGWG processes issues
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present+
13:35:44 [alastairc]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
13:35:44 [joconnor]
present+
13:36:34 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: AGWG process might apply to Silver, even though outcomes are different
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13:37:16 [KimD]
Present+
13:37:47 [Sheri_B-H]
alistair: responses need to be created to comments. Could be an update to the documentation, or a response why the comment isn't being adopted
13:38:16 [sajkaj]
q+ to ask whether draft response goes on github?
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present+
13:38:37 [Chuck]
ack sajkaj
13:38:37 [Zakim]
sajkaj, you wanted to ask whether draft response goes on github?
13:38:48 [Sheri_B-H]
Initial discussion on comment decides to adopt response, agree with documentation update, or if there is not agreement then another discussion is required.
13:38:51 [Jan]
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13:39:13 [Fazio]
Responses that disagree with an isssue/comment should be diplomatic thanking the commenter and saying we consider their comment
13:39:31 [JustineP]
+1 David
13:40:00 [Sheri_B-H]
Janina asked - should draft responses go into github directly? Alistairs answer is they can, as long as they are marked as draft. If it is controversial, drafts can be in email.
13:40:37 [jeanne]
+1 David
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13:41:35 [Chuck]
q+
13:41:43 [Chuck]
ack Chu
13:41:50 [Wilco]
present+
13:42:12 [jeanne]
q+ to ask at what point you close the issue where there are multiple comments on the same issue
13:42:20 [JustineP]
Should we formally assign ourselves to issues using Github tags?
13:42:41 [Sheri_B-H]
alistair: use email if you aren't confident of your response
13:45:50 [Sheri_B-H]
alistair: you can send a "holding" response that says effectively: "we are going to examain this in the future"
13:45:51 [Chuck]
q?
13:46:48 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: can you update a number of issues simultaneously?
13:46:53 [jeanne]
ack je
13:46:53 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to ask at what point you close the issue where there are multiple comments on the same issue
13:47:04 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to suggest GitHub labels for grouping
13:47:05 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: yes, you can close multiple issues with a single updte
13:47:13 [Chuck]
q?
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13:48:04 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: clarification - you don't update the ticket until the proposed large change is ready? Alister agreed
13:48:19 [Chuck]
ack bru
13:48:19 [Zakim]
bruce_bailey, you wanted to suggest GitHub labels for grouping
13:48:26 [jeanne]
ack br
13:48:40 [Sheri_B-H]
Bruce: should we use labels to group?
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13:49:39 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: there are topic labels and lifecycle labels (surveys were the example he provided of a lifecycle survey)
13:49:43 [bruce_bailey]
very nice, adding key word as first word in labels
13:50:31 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: if you aren't sure about a label leave it to your label manager
13:50:35 [bruce_bailey]
i retract my suggestion to look into the GitHub "Project" feature
13:51:32 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Issue_Processing_Report#13_April_2021
13:51:34 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: We have 200 issues that aren't assigned to a subgroup. Those are the ones we need editors to help. Label is "needs proposal"
13:52:13 [JustineP]
q+ to follow up on question about formally assigning ourselves to issues in Github for tracking purposes
13:53:04 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: Create a github account if you don't have one
13:53:11 [Chuck]
ack Just
13:53:11 [Zakim]
JustineP, you wanted to follow up on question about formally assigning ourselves to issues in Github for tracking purposes
13:53:49 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: once you have created an account, email Michael so he can attach your account to the repository. Then you can assign yourself issues
13:56:47 [jeanne]
I have updated the link to only included issues that Need proposal AND are not assigned.
13:56:54 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: survey should only include things that have a clear response so you understand what is being proposed.
13:57:20 [jeanne]
s/ link to only included issues/ link to only include issues
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Alistair: survey gives you 4 options: accept as is, accept with mods, leave as is, something else
13:58:45 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair: AGWG did one survey per SC
14:01:52 [Sheri_B-H]
Alistair then walked through an example with IBM's comment #500 which hd multiple parts
14:02:04 [bruce_bailey]
i wish we had thought to do a video recording of this session!
14:03:32 [Sheri_B-H]
q+
14:03:48 [Chuck]
q?
14:04:12 [Jemma]
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14:04:28 [Sheri_B-H]
q+ how do we ask the commenter for more information
14:05:51 [Sheri_B-H]
sorry audio problems
14:06:03 [Chuck]
ack Sheri
14:06:57 [Chuck]
q+
14:07:41 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: it would be best if we could tell from the ticket who generated the comment. If the commenter added their ticket in Github directly, you can comment in the ticket.
14:07:47 [Chuck]
ack Ch
14:08:18 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: Tickets that were emailed in should have a link to the email at the beginning of the ticket
14:09:11 [jeanne]
q+ to ask about summarizing discussions in the thread
14:09:17 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: if the commenter doesn't respond to the request for more info, you can close the ticket with the proposal and finish with "if you aren't happy with this response, please open a new ticket"
14:11:13 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: sometimes there are lively discussions in the thread. What do we do with those?
14:11:37 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: focus the discussion on the original comments. Sometimes new issues come up in the discussion, those need to be separated out into their own tickets
14:13:12 [JenniferC]
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14:13:52 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: it is useful in complicated tickets if you write a recap, and then you can search for your name later to find it
14:13:59 [Chuck]
q+
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14:14:56 [Chuck]
ack Jeanne
14:14:56 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to ask about summarizing discussions in the thread
14:15:18 [jeanne]
q-
14:15:22 [jeanne]
ack chuck
14:15:53 [Sheri_B-H]
Chuck: once you have a resolution, what then?
14:16:14 [Fazio]
The commentor doesn't necessaarily have to agree
14:17:40 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: If there is an agreed change, someone needs to make the update. The easiest way is to put the PR containing the change in the survey
14:18:18 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: the PR should state which issue is being closed
14:18:45 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: Issue gets closed after change gets merged in
14:19:16 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: use the surveys as the nexus point
14:19:36 [Chuck]
q+
14:19:37 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: David is right, only the group has to agree, the commenter doesn't have to agree
14:19:58 [Wilco]
q+
14:20:18 [alastairc]
ack ch
14:20:58 [JustineP]
If issue is very simple (e.g., typographical error) should we just implement via pull request and close issue afterwards?
14:21:21 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: All of our surveys are open, otherwise community groups don't have access
14:21:26 [Fazio]
Surveys for issues feels like a lot of inundating emails
14:22:18 [Sheri_B-H]
Alister: simple issues like typos can be fixed and closed without surveys
14:22:49 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: don't let lack of git knowledge stop you. The hard part is the proposals. Other folx can handle the tech bits for you
14:23:49 [Fazio]
I find surveys hard
14:24:02 [Fazio]
the format is hard for me to read cognitively
14:24:19 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: to answer David's comment, it should be two emails per week - one with the survey, one announcing the survey. Please keep your comments IN the survey and not in the email thread
14:24:19 [Fazio]
I like the thread better
14:24:24 [Fazio]
in github
14:25:04 [jeanne]
s/two emails per week - one with the survey, one announcing the survey./one email per week announcing the survey.
14:25:21 [alastairc]
https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3A%22status%3A+needs+proposal%22+created%3A%3E2020-11-01+sort%3Acreated-asc+
14:25:33 [bruce_bailey]
very nice overview !
14:25:45 [Lauriat]
+1, thank you!
14:26:03 [jeanne]
+1, thank you!
14:26:05 [alastairc]
WCAG 2.x, but similar... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
14:26:44 [Sheri_B-H]
Chuck: in the AGWG call we can review one where we have a proposed a response. We need to increase confidence on proposed responses.
14:27:42 [Sheri_B-H]
Jeanne: Several comments are about usability. If you are a usability specialist, please look at the label "section: usability issues"
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14:28:53 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-silver-minutes.html jeanne
14:29:38 [alastairc]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
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