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13:09:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:09:51 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:10:18 <jeanne> present:
13:10:18 <jeanne> chair: Shawn, jeanne
13:10:18 <jeanne> present+
13:10:18 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
13:10:18 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:10:19 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
13:10:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-silver-minutes.html jeanne
13:10:19 <jeanne> q?
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13:16:39 <jeanne> agenda+ calendar reminders and announcements: AGWG All-day, survey for joint ACT meeting, 30 min AGWG issues meeting
13:16:42 <jeanne> agenda+ Issue handling training
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13:21:48 <Lauriat> agenda?
13:21:55 <Lauriat> Present+
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13:28:47 <Chuck> present+
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13:30:23 <sajkaj> present+
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13:30:34 <alastairc> agenda?
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13:30:52 <JF> Present+
13:30:59 <Makoto> present+
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13:31:08 <JustineP> present+
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13:31:51 <jeanne> scribe:Sheri_B-H
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13:31:57 <JakeAbma> present+
13:31:57 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up item 1
13:31:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- calendar reminders and announcements: AGWG All-day, survey for joint ACT meeting, 30 min AGWG issues meeting -- taken up [from jeanne]
13:32:19 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne's announcements: Reminder of all day joint meeting for April 29 with AGWG
13:32:44 <jeanne> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Apr/0051.html
13:32:59 <Sheri_B-H> Jean's second announcement: next All day Joint meeting with ACT, poll in IRC for date
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13:33:09 <mgarrish> present+
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13:33:16 <Azlan> present+
13:33:18 <sarahhorton> present+
13:33:36 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne's third announcement: 30 minutes after this call, we are invited to the first 30 min of AGWG for live issue processing
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13:34:23 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
13:34:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Issue handling training -- taken up [from jeanne]
13:34:28 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
13:34:32 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
13:35:04 <Sheri_B-H> Alastair to discuss how AGWG processes issues
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13:35:13 <Francis_Storr> present+
13:35:44 <alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
13:35:44 <joconnor> present+
13:36:34 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: AGWG process might apply to Silver, even though outcomes are different
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13:37:16 <KimD> Present+
13:37:47 <Sheri_B-H> alistair: responses need to be created to comments.  Could be an update to the documentation, or a response why the comment isn't being adopted
13:38:16 <sajkaj> q+ to ask whether draft response goes on github?
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13:38:25 <ToddLibby> present+
13:38:37 <Chuck> ack sajkaj
13:38:37 <Zakim> sajkaj, you wanted to ask whether draft response goes on github?
13:38:48 <Sheri_B-H> Initial discussion on comment decides to adopt response, agree with documentation update, or if there is not agreement then another discussion is required.
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13:39:13 <Fazio> Responses that disagree with an isssue/comment should be diplomatic thanking the commenter and saying we consider their comment
13:39:31 <JustineP> +1 David
13:40:00 <Sheri_B-H> Janina asked - should draft responses go into github directly? Alistairs answer is they can, as long as they are marked as draft.  If it is controversial, drafts can be in email.
13:40:37 <jeanne> +1 David
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13:41:35 <Chuck> q+
13:41:43 <Chuck> ack Chu
13:41:50 <Wilco> present+
13:42:12 <jeanne> q+ to ask at what point you close the issue where there are multiple comments on the same issue
13:42:20 <JustineP> Should we formally assign ourselves to issues using Github tags?
13:42:41 <Sheri_B-H> alistair: use email if you aren't confident of your response
13:45:50 <Sheri_B-H> alistair: you can send a "holding" response that says effectively: "we are going to examain this in the future"
13:45:51 <Chuck> q?
13:46:48 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: can you update a number of issues simultaneously?
13:46:53 <jeanne> ack je
13:46:53 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask at what point you close the issue where there are multiple comments on the same issue
13:47:04 <bruce_bailey> q+ to suggest GitHub labels for grouping
13:47:05 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: yes, you can close multiple issues with a single updte
13:47:13 <Chuck> q?
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13:48:04 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: clarification - you don't update the ticket until the proposed large change is ready?  Alister agreed
13:48:19 <Chuck> ack bru
13:48:19 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to suggest GitHub labels for grouping
13:48:26 <jeanne> ack br
13:48:40 <Sheri_B-H> Bruce: should we use labels to group?
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13:49:39 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: there are topic labels and lifecycle labels (surveys were the example he provided of a lifecycle survey)
13:49:43 <bruce_bailey> very nice, adding key word as first word in labels
13:50:31 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: if you aren't sure about a label leave it to your label manager
13:50:35 <bruce_bailey> i retract my suggestion to look into the GitHub "Project" feature
13:51:32 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Issue_Processing_Report#13_April_2021
13:51:34 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: We have 200 issues that aren't assigned to a subgroup.  Those are the ones we need editors to help.  Label is "needs proposal"
13:52:13 <JustineP> q+ to follow up on question about formally assigning ourselves to issues in Github for tracking purposes
13:53:04 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: Create a github account if you don't have one
13:53:11 <Chuck> ack Just
13:53:11 <Zakim> JustineP, you wanted to follow up on question about formally assigning ourselves to issues in Github for tracking purposes
13:53:49 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: once you have created an account, email Michael so he can attach your account to the repository.  Then you can assign yourself issues
13:56:47 <jeanne> I have updated the link to only included issues that Need proposal AND are not assigned.
13:56:54 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: survey should only include things that have a clear response so you understand what is being proposed.
13:57:20 <jeanne> s/ link to only included issues/ link to only include issues
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13:58:25 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: survey gives you 4 options: accept as is, accept with mods, leave as is, something else
13:58:45 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair: AGWG did one survey per SC
14:01:52 <Sheri_B-H> Alistair then walked through an example with IBM's comment #500 which hd multiple parts
14:02:04 <bruce_bailey> i wish we had thought to do a video recording of this session!
14:03:32 <Sheri_B-H> q+
14:03:48 <Chuck> q?
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14:04:28 <Sheri_B-H> q+ how do we ask the commenter for more information
14:05:51 <Sheri_B-H> sorry audio problems
14:06:03 <Chuck> ack Sheri
14:06:57 <Chuck> q+
14:07:41 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: it would be best if we could tell from the ticket who generated the comment.  If the commenter added their ticket in Github directly, you can comment in the ticket.
14:07:47 <Chuck> ack Ch
14:08:18 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: Tickets that were emailed in should have a link to the email at the beginning of the ticket
14:09:11 <jeanne> q+ to ask about summarizing discussions in the thread
14:09:17 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: if the commenter doesn't respond to the request for more info, you can close the ticket with the proposal and finish with "if you aren't happy with this response, please open a new ticket"
14:11:13 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: sometimes there are lively discussions in the thread.  What do we do with those?
14:11:37 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: focus the discussion on the original comments.  Sometimes new issues come up in the discussion, those need to be separated out into their own tickets
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14:13:52 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: it is useful in complicated tickets if you write a recap, and then you can search for your name later to find it
14:13:59 <Chuck> q+
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14:14:56 <Chuck> ack Jeanne
14:14:56 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask about summarizing discussions in the thread
14:15:18 <jeanne> q-
14:15:22 <jeanne> ack chuck
14:15:53 <Sheri_B-H> Chuck: once you have a resolution, what then?
14:16:14 <Fazio> The commentor doesn't necessaarily have to agree
14:17:40 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: If there is an agreed change, someone needs to make the update.  The easiest way is to put the PR containing the change in the survey
14:18:18 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: the PR should state which issue is being closed
14:18:45 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: Issue gets closed after change gets merged in
14:19:16 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: use the surveys as the nexus point
14:19:36 <Chuck> q+
14:19:37 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: David is right, only the group has to agree, the commenter doesn't have to agree
14:19:58 <Wilco> q+
14:20:18 <alastairc> ack ch
14:20:58 <JustineP> If issue is very simple (e.g., typographical error) should we just implement via pull request and close issue afterwards?
14:21:21 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: All of our surveys are open, otherwise community groups don't have access
14:21:26 <Fazio> Surveys for issues feels like a lot of inundating emails
14:22:18 <Sheri_B-H> Alister: simple issues like typos can be fixed and closed without surveys
14:22:49 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: don't let lack of git knowledge stop you.  The hard part is the proposals.  Other folx can handle the tech bits for you
14:23:49 <Fazio> I find surveys hard
14:24:02 <Fazio> the format is hard for me to read cognitively
14:24:19 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: to answer David's comment, it should be two emails per week - one with the survey, one announcing the survey.  Please keep your comments IN the survey and not in the email thread
14:24:19 <Fazio> I like the thread better
14:24:24 <Fazio> in github
14:25:04 <jeanne> s/two emails per week - one with the survey, one announcing the survey./one email per week announcing the survey.
14:25:21 <alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3A%22status%3A+needs+proposal%22+created%3A%3E2020-11-01+sort%3Acreated-asc+
14:25:33 <bruce_bailey> very nice overview !
14:25:45 <Lauriat> +1, thank you!
14:26:03 <jeanne> +1, thank you!
14:26:05 <alastairc> WCAG 2.x, but similar... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
14:26:44 <Sheri_B-H> Chuck: in the AGWG call we can review one where we have a proposed a response.  We need to increase confidence on proposed responses.
14:27:42 <Sheri_B-H> Jeanne: Several comments are about usability.  If you are a usability specialist, please look at the label "section: usability issues"
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14:28:53 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/13-silver-minutes.html jeanne
14:29:38 <alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Issue_tracking_and_resolution
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