IRC log of wot-discovery on 2021-04-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:30 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/12-wot-discovery-irc

14:02:16 [ktoumura]

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14:03:27 [kaz]

https://www.w3.org/2021/03/08-wot-discovery-minutes.html

14:03:34 [kaz]

https://www.w3.org/2021/03/29-wot-discovery-minutes.html

14:03:49 [kaz]

meeting: WoT Discovery

14:04:18 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Christian_Glomb, Farshid_Tavakolizadeh, Kunihiko_Toumura

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14:05:26 [kaz]

Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#12_April_2021

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14:07:10 [kaz]

present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima

14:07:53 [kaz]

scribenick: kaz

14:07:59 [kaz]

topic: Prev minutes

14:08:21 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2021/03/08-wot-discovery-minutes.html March-8

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14:08:36 [kaz]

mm: (goes through the minutes)

14:09:01 [kaz]

present+ Jack_Dickinson

14:09:06 [kaz]

zakim, who is on the call?

14:09:06 [Zakim]

Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Christian_Glomb, Farshid_Tavakolizadeh, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Jack_Dickinson

14:09:18 [FarshidT]

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14:09:27 [kaz]

present+ Andrea_Cimmino

14:09:49 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2021/03/29-wot-discovery-minutes.html March-29

14:09:59 [kaz]

i/29/(approved)

14:10:35 [kaz]

mm: we got a resolution about PR 145, and are waiting for the PR

14:10:37 [kaz]

ft: yes

14:10:51 [kaz]

s/the PR/an additional PR/

14:12:54 [kaz]

mm: should add speaker's name for Cristiano's comment

14:12:57 [kaz]

kaz: will do

14:13:21 [kaz]

topic: Quick updates

14:13:38 [kaz]

subtopic: wot-security issue 196

14:13:54 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-security/issues/196 wot-security issue 196 - Update security and privacy considerations in Discovery

14:14:01 [kaz]

mm: we had discussion about that

14:14:49 [kaz]

... Maybe add note about use of object security in unencrypted networks, e.g. .local domains that can't use normal TLS?

14:14:56 [kaz]

... need to talk with Ben about that point

14:15:13 [kaz]

... planning to do some more work on this issue

14:15:22 [kaz]

... also validation

14:16:06 [kaz]

s/... also validation//

14:16:13 [kaz]

subtopic: Canonicalization

14:16:30 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1086 wot-thing-description PR 1086 - Add section to define Canonical serialization

14:16:37 [kaz]

mm: also validation

14:17:17 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1085 wot-thing-description PR 1085 - WIP: Add Validation Section

14:17:25 [kaz]

mm: regarding the canonicalization

14:17:34 [kaz]

... need discussion during the TD call on Wed

14:18:23 [kaz]

... (shows Farshid's comment 3 days ago)

14:18:28 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1086#pullrequestreview-632217058 Farshid's comments

14:18:56 [kaz]

mm: we could leave this out

14:19:06 [kaz]

... any more to track down?

14:19:35 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1086#discussion_r610486386 Farshid's 2nd comment

14:19:51 [kaz]

mm: what about the default?

14:20:06 [kaz]

... the problem is we don't have information about the original user's assignment

14:20:33 [kaz]

ft: can understand it

14:20:40 [kaz]

... but do we mandate it?

14:20:52 [kaz]

mm: (adds comments)

14:21:15 [kaz]

ft: people should be aware any kind of defaults will be removed

14:21:55 [kaz]

mm: yeah

14:22:14 [kaz]

... The problem is that when you pull things into a database, you will fill in all the default values. Later you don't know whether a value was assigned during import or by the originator. Would only apply to defaults defined in the TD spec, not in extensions.

14:22:34 [kaz]

... (also adds another comment)

14:23:08 [kaz]

i|also|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1086#discussion_r611673680 McCool's comment|

14:23:17 [kaz]

s/.../mm:/

14:23:34 [kaz]

mm: do we need to have a special filter to get a canonical form?

14:24:14 [kaz]

... concerned it's expensive to implement it

14:25:06 [kaz]

... also if the signature is broken, the canonicalization will be also broken

14:25:44 [kaz]

mm: and then next, validation

14:26:14 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1085 wot-thing-description PR 1085 - WIP: Add Validation Section

14:26:42 [kaz]

i/and then/subtopic: PR 1085/

14:27:02 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:27:07 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:27:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/12-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

14:27:30 [kaz]

mm: we have outstanding points with validation for directories

14:28:12 [kaz]

... any other quick updates?

14:28:55 [kaz]

(none)

14:29:07 [kaz]

mm: regarding canonicalization...

14:29:15 [kaz]

... (adds some more notes to the agenda wiki)

14:29:28 [kaz]

[[

14:29:29 [kaz]

Pending, items to discuss

14:29:29 [kaz]

Plan B: store original string in directories still an option/safe fallback

14:29:30 [kaz]

]]

14:30:02 [kaz]

mm: planning to do Call for Review today

14:30:15 [kaz]

ft: thought you sent a request 2 weeks ago

14:34:01 [kaz]

-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2021Mar/0058.html message on editorial updates from McCool (Member-only)

14:34:25 [kaz]

kaz: to be strict, that message is not a call for consensus for publication

14:35:17 [kaz]

mm: still need to wrap-up

14:36:21 [kaz]

i/planning/topic: Publication preparation/

14:36:33 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/151 PR 151 - HTML formatting and editorial notes

14:36:44 [kaz]

mm: (goes through the PR 151)

14:36:57 [kaz]

ft: I've added notes

14:38:32 [kaz]

-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-discovery/151/e3ca84b...farshidtz:f68f63b.html HTML diff

14:39:40 [kaz]

mm: (creates a branch, wd-update-candidate, for the next publication)

14:40:02 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/tree/wd-update-candidate wd-update-candidate branch

14:41:14 [kaz]

mm: the question is it would take two more weeks to get resolution for publication :(

14:41:42 [kaz]

kaz: if the final changes are just editorial, we can note that and ask the whole group for quick review, e.g., within one week

14:46:07 [kaz]

mm: (generates a request message and send it to the group)

14:46:51 [kaz]

topic: Issue 149

14:46:59 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/149 Issue 149 - Anonymous TDs in a directory

14:47:10 [kaz]

ft: (explains his generated issue)

14:47:42 [kaz]

mm: directory stores legal TD. right?

14:48:16 [kaz]

ft: potential privacy issue there

14:48:26 [kaz]

mm: (adds a comment)

14:48:52 [kaz]

... possibly some auto-generated ID which is used only within the Directory service

14:49:02 [kaz]

s/some/we can use some/

14:50:01 [kaz]

ft: thought we already had some discussion

14:50:04 [kaz]

mm: right

14:50:23 [kaz]

ft: where to put the ID?

14:50:32 [kaz]

... not associated with the TD itself?

14:50:54 [kaz]

mm: technically, we could use some key separately from the TD itself

14:52:50 [kaz]

q+

14:53:26 [kaz]

mt: would like to see the comments on the issue a bit more

14:53:54 [kaz]

... how to solve the problem if there is no ID available?

14:54:59 [kaz]

s/mt:/ft:/

14:55:08 [kaz]

... can we improve the algorithm?

14:55:26 [kaz]

s/algorithm/signing algorithm/

14:56:32 [kaz]

mm: I'm ok with generating a tentative ID and put it into the metadata part of the TD

14:57:13 [kaz]

... we can have a chaining mechanism to handle that

14:58:50 [kaz]

kaz: do we have consensus to have an auto-generated ID, e.g., generated by the Directory, for the system-wide purposes?

14:59:00 [kaz]

mm: ok to use some local ID

14:59:20 [kaz]

... e.g., could be a rotated ID

15:00:16 [kaz]

... another question is if the local ID should be generated based on the original ID

15:00:38 [kaz]

... but should be discussed separately

15:01:34 [kaz]

... when we specify signing, we can include a "chaining" label to make sure this additional data does not break the signature

15:01:51 [kaz]

... (then records our consensus from the call)

15:02:03 [kaz]

... consensus:

15:02:17 [kaz]

... 1. directory assigns a local ID to all TDs

15:02:38 [kaz]

... 2. this ID can be (optionally) embedded in an enriched TD just like other metadata

15:03:08 [kaz]

... 3. API needs to allow for looking up TDs by local ID (in a URL)

15:03:27 [kaz]

... 4. signatures need to support chaining mechanism that omits enriched metadata

15:04:21 [kaz]

ft: maybe we should call it "proposal" at the moment given Victor is not here

15:04:32 [kaz]

mm: (changes "consensus" to "proposal")

15:05:52 [kaz]

[adjourned]

15:05:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:05:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/12-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz

17:37:22 [Zakim]

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