IRC log of aria-apg on 2021-03-30
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:50:00 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 17:50:00 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-aria-apg-irc
- 17:50:19 [Matt_King]
- MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
- 17:50:26 [Matt_King]
- CHAIR: Matt King
- 17:50:33 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 17:50:51 [Matt_King]
- present+
- 17:50:58 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:50:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 17:56:37 [MarkMcCarthy]
- MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg
- 17:56:40 [MarkMcCarthy]
- present+
- 17:56:55 [jongund]
- jongund has joined #aria-apg
- 18:04:21 [sarah_higley]
- sarah_higley has joined #aria-apg
- 18:04:30 [sarah_higley]
- present+
- 18:07:57 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 18:07:58 [siri]
- siri has joined #aria-apg
- 18:08:51 [jamesn]
- scribe: jamesn
- 18:09:22 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Address PR status
- 18:09:55 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: 1st 3 are lightweigfht fixes to examples
- 18:10:10 [MarkMcCarthy]
- s/lightweigfht /lightweight
- 18:10:21 [jamesn]
- Updated disclosure button for FAQ and Image Description examples by jongund · Pull Request #1814 · w3c/aria-practices
- 18:10:45 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: If there are visual changes need to look at WHCM and other contrast
- 18:10:55 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: in 1814 what needs reviewing?
- 18:11:16 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: code changes - needs code review
- 18:11:26 [CurtBellew]
- CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg
- 18:11:37 [jamesn]
- jongund: was a separate PR which was done automatically for inline SVG
- 18:11:52 [jamesn]
- jongund: inline SVG in the CSS files was done elsewhere
- 18:12:13 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: small amount of doc changes under a11y features
- 18:12:20 [siri]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1814
- 18:12:22 [CurtBellew]
- present+
- 18:12:22 [jamesn]
- jongund: need to look at in light of chrome
- 18:12:30 [jamesn]
- present+
- 18:12:43 [jamesn]
- jongund: proposed changes in thermostat
- 18:13:05 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: are there WHCM changes in this that model the thermostat slider one
- 18:13:10 [jamesn]
- jongund: these are old now
- 18:13:28 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: are there WHCM bugs now that there is SVG here
- 18:13:40 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: don't have to fix in this PR
- 18:13:42 [CurtBellew]
- For some reason I'm not able to get the Call details link in the email to work. Could someone please provide the URL?
- 18:13:51 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: didn't introduce that bug
- 18:14:28 [jamesn]
- jongund: they disappear in some high contrast modes - the twisties
- 18:15:00 [CurtBellew]
- Thank you, Mark
- 18:15:03 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: can someone raise the high contrast issues
- 18:15:11 [MarkMcCarthy]
- Of course Curt!
- 18:15:19 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: my proposal is to merge with those bugs as known bugs
- 18:15:37 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: these code fixes didn't cause those bugs
- 18:15:47 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: going to be bocoup to review
- 18:16:14 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: maybe should leave HC mode doc out for now
- 18:16:21 [jamesn]
- jongund: ok
- 18:17:37 [jamesn]
- Updated checkbox example to restore visual keyboard focus styling feature by jongund · Pull Request #1802 · w3c/aria-practices
- 18:17:41 [MarkMcCarthy]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1802
- 18:19:01 [jamesn]
- jongund: added focus around the label as well as the checkbox
- 18:19:25 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: should this have all of the reviews?
- 18:20:01 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: should have no aria AT impact right?
- 18:20:39 [jamesn]
- jongund: only change to RT is can't send key.space - have to use the space character
- 18:21:38 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: visual design, high contrast, code and test
- 18:21:46 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: I'll add after the meeting
- 18:22:27 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: imagine will be the same for 1801
- 18:22:46 [MarkMcCarthy]
- I'll take Windows HCM reviews on these, will be quick
- 18:22:47 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: need volunteers
- 18:23:43 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Fixes and updates to index files:
- 18:23:46 [MarkMcCarthy]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1607
- 18:24:05 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: I think we want to merge this first
- 18:24:07 [jamesn]
- jongund: no
- 18:24:37 [MarkMcCarthy]
- s/merge this /merge HCM info
- 18:24:37 [jamesn]
- jongund: intertwined... fix for `aria-label` first.... then other
- 18:25:06 [jamesn]
- need to make sure index is accurate
- 18:25:14 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: need to make sure index is accurate
- 18:25:49 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: a few ways to review... make sure it matches - then checking the result of that is the part I was finding to be very tedious
- 18:26:15 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: is something as we look at redesign that indexing is robust
- 18:26:35 [jamesn]
- jongund: code is succinct
- 18:26:59 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: sarah_higley do you have time to look at #1709
- 18:27:04 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: sure
- 18:27:20 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: should reference the wiki page
- 18:28:00 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: roles, states and properties that are included in heading or code tag, anything in table of role, states and propreties - then the meta tags (actually data attributes)
- 18:28:11 [jamesn]
- jongund: think that is correct
- 18:28:32 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: 1709 first
- 18:29:08 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: my comment was about adding tooltips to every link
- 18:30:09 [jamesn]
- jongund: I think we added it as the Screen reader wasn't picking up the abbreviation
- 18:30:33 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: my comment was that needed it defined somewhere
- 18:30:51 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: outside the link and next to it is fine
- 18:31:14 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: `aria-describedby` if that is a good idea?
- 18:31:17 [Jemma]
- present+
- 18:31:42 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:31:50 [jamesn]
- siri: could provide the abbreviation for HC at the top
- 18:32:33 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: if you read through the table then will hear the HCs but wouldn't hear them in the list of links
- 18:32:46 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: ok
- 18:32:55 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: taking the titles off the links
- 18:33:07 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: work on 1709 first then 1607
- 18:33:35 [jamesn]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1635
- 18:37:13 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Jump to main content
- 18:37:23 [jamesn]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1635
- 18:38:50 [jamesn]
- jongund: don't think we need the show all landmarks and show all headings
- 18:40:06 [Jemma]
- you can see live example here https://www.disability.illinois.edu/
- 18:40:50 [Jemma]
- you tab into and can see landmark and page outline
- 18:40:52 [jamesn]
- jamesn: not really intended for screen. reader users
- 18:41:00 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: visually persistant
- 18:41:09 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: no logo on these pages do we
- 18:41:26 [jamesn]
- jongund: visibiltiy is important - for keyboard only
- 18:42:17 [jamesn]
- jamesn: accesskey sounds good
- 18:42:47 [jamesn]
- jongund: in this version it is a title attribute - would include a generated tooltip when it gets focus
- 18:42:59 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: how do you know what to put in
- 18:43:14 [jamesn]
- jongund: calculated base on OS and browser
- 18:43:29 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: you have to hard code it
- 18:43:54 [jamesn]
- jongund: yes i'm computing it
- 18:45:42 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:45:59 [jamesn]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 18:45:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- removing the collapsible list box -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:46:08 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: burn it
- 18:46:29 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: would like a PR to deprecate it
- 18:47:05 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: keep the page link but have it being a note about the deprecation
- 18:47:53 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: want to reference the select only combobox
- 18:48:25 [jamesn]
- sarah_higley: I'm happy to do the PR
- 18:48:34 [jamesn]
- Matt_King: lets get a proposal
- 18:48:53 [jongund]
- scribe: jongund
- 18:48:56 [jamesn]
- zakim, next item
- 18:48:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- revisit accordion behaviors on demo page -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:49:04 [jamesn]
- zakim, take up item 4
- 18:49:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- ARIA 1.3 First Working Draft Prep -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 18:49:33 [jongund]
- MK: What we need for annotations, there are room for a lot of guidance
- 18:49:42 [ZoeBijl]
- regrets+
- 18:50:00 [jongund]
- MK: It should be similar to our labeling and describing section, rather than functional example
- 18:50:10 [jongund]
- MK: That is the first item
- 18:50:30 [jongund]
- JN: I think prose is good, but we could link to an example document
- 18:50:42 [jongund]
- JN: A page with static annotations
- 18:50:54 [jongund]
- MK: Kind of like what we do for landmarks
- 18:51:01 [jongund]
- JN: I have some ideas for this
- 18:51:11 [ZoeBijl]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:51:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-aria-apg-minutes.html ZoeBijl
- 18:51:17 [jongund]
- MK: Some borrowing from what Aaron has done
- 18:51:45 [jongund]
- MK: We might get contributions from many people, JN can you start off
- 18:52:02 [jongund]
- JN: Do we want a super annotation issue that covers all of these things
- 18:52:26 [jongund]
- MK: COmments and suggestions go together, aria-details is an interesting beast,
- 18:52:46 [jongund]
- MK: Isn;t aria-details used to link... termonology
- 18:52:56 [jongund]
- MK: ONe is the annotation and ..
- 18:53:24 [jongund]
- JN: aria-details references the thing you are annotating and the annotation
- 18:53:51 [jongund]
- MK: It feels like for that use case, the details should be specifically fot annotations
- 18:54:17 [jongund]
- JN: We have other uses for aria-details, but this is the primary use case
- 18:54:25 [jongund]
- JN: Aaron needed it
- 18:54:44 [jongund]
- MK: What are the use cases related to suggestions...
- 18:54:49 [jongund]
- JN: Let me look
- 18:55:53 [Jemma]
- here is info for aria details annotation https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1136
- 18:56:15 [jongund]
- JN: The two use cases, not specially annotations, when you have some other user editing the text,
- 18:56:28 [jongund]
- JN: There is inline stuff...
- 18:56:30 [Jemma]
- "aria-description="[localized string]" (similar to how aria-label can be used instead of aria-labelledby). This is a generically useful attribute that has been requested for years, and can be placed on any element.
- 18:56:30 [Jemma]
- Note for authors: aria-description should not be used when there is a more specific semantic to express the same information.
- 18:56:30 [Jemma]
- Order of precedence for description fields in accessibility APIs: 1) aria-describedby, 2) aria-description, 3) native markup such as HTML's @title"
- 18:57:04 [jongund]
- MK: Is it the case we put aria-description in two places and they reference each other
- 18:57:21 [jongund]
- JN: I will do 2 PRs, so they are not so big
- 18:57:36 [jongund]
- MK: Let's address annotation first
- 18:57:41 [Jemma]
- Thanks so much, James!
- 18:57:52 [jongund]
- JN: I will get something for us to comment on
- 18:58:20 [jongund]
- MK: What is the direction aria-braille* , since there are lot of warnings in the spec
- 18:58:44 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 18:58:45 [jongund]
- MK: It should be about when to use it or why to use it
- 19:00:24 [jongund]
- JG: I am concerns about people using without understanding them, since they have label and descrption in the text string
- 19:00:55 [jongund]
- JN: We need people who use Braille to give the examples, where these would be useful
- 19:02:10 [Jemma]
- jn: I would like to propose simply putting braille name and description with intended purpose with caution
- 19:02:20 [jongund]
- JN: I think we could add a caution in the naming and description section about the using them without expert knowledge
- 19:03:05 [jongund]
- JG: Have these attributes been socialized with Braille users
- 19:03:18 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 19:03:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- revisit accordion behaviors on demo page -- taken up [from Jemma]
- 19:03:23 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 19:03:23 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 was just opened, Jemma
- 19:03:29 [jongund]
- MK: We need to vet them through the spec process
- 19:03:38 [Jemma]
- zakim, close agendum 2
- 19:03:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, revisit accordion behaviors on demo page, closed
- 19:03:39 [Zakim]
- I see nothing remaining on the agenda
- 19:03:49 [Jemma]
- zakim, next item
- 19:03:49 [Zakim]
- I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, Jemma
- 19:03:57 [Jemma]
- agenda?
- 19:04:00 [jongund]
- JN: The practices should reenforce the need for caution
- 19:04:13 [jongund]
- MK: We need to reach out to Sina and Peter
- 19:04:24 [jongund]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 19:04:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/30-aria-apg-minutes.html jongund
- 19:04:29 [MarkMcCarthy]
- MarkMcCarthy has left #aria-apg
- 19:09:04 [Matt_King]
- jamesn: https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/review/modal-dialog.html
- 22:30:25 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg