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18:59:43 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
18:59:56 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
19:00:06 <Matt_King> present+
19:00:12 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:00:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/25-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
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19:01:34 <jesdaigle> +present
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19:08:24 <michael_fairchild> scribe: michael_fairchild
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19:08:44 <Jemma> present+
19:08:55 <michael_fairchild> topic: App development workstream
19:10:40 <michael_fairchild> Seth: For the aria-at app, we have been working on requirements. We are starting to have conversations with James and Sina. We will start our bi-weekly aria-at app sub-meeting starting next week. Thursday 4/1 at 2pm ET.
19:11:15 <michael_fairchild> Matt: what zoom should we use
19:11:26 <michael_fairchild> Seth: can we use this zoom?
19:11:49 <michael_fairchild> Michael: yes
19:15:36 <rob-fentress> present+
19:15:39 <michael_fairchild> Matt: we recently had some discussion on the working mode. If this will affect our discussions next week, should we spend a little more time on it this week?
19:16:04 <michael_fairchild> James: we decided on 'draft', 'wide review', and 'finalized'.
19:16:24 <michael_fairchild> James:
19:17:26 <michael_fairchild> James: 'Wide review' is when we feel that the test is ready for review outside of the CG, for example by AT developers. Once it gets to this status, there would be 60 days for feedback, and another 60 days for us to fix any issues.
19:18:07 <michael_fairchild> Matt: thank you. We will want to add the ability to track the status of the test into the data model. Seth, should we talk more about this today?
19:18:23 <Jemma> agenda?
19:18:23 <michael_fairchild> Seth: I'd love to talk about this more.
19:19:40 <michael_fairchild> Topic: Automation workstream
19:20:09 <michael_fairchild> Seth: There are a number of shared tasks between automation and AT-app, including the hybrid test format.
19:20:19 <michael_fairchild> Seth: that's the main thing happening right now
19:20:56 <michael_fairchild> Seth: we will start the engineering in late April
19:21:18 <michael_fairchild> Seth: week of the April 26th
19:26:30 <michael_fairchild> Matt: Seth, can you coordinate some issue discussions (test format improvement and supporting automated tests from the same format)?
19:26:36 <michael_fairchild> Seth: yes
19:26:54 <michael_fairchild> Topic: Test development
19:27:41 <michael_fairchild> James: We have been working through the 8 patterns.
19:28:55 <michael_fairchild> James: potential blockers: we are waiting on some APG example updates for sliders, and file tree-view. We are also waiting on the toolbar example.
19:30:05 <michael_fairchild> Matt: as far as the APG, the updates for the sliders will be landing soon, including a multi thumb slider.
19:30:33 <michael_fairchild> James: should we add the multi thumb slider to our list of test plans?
19:30:51 <michael_fairchild> Matt: yes, especially because the tree view example might take some time.
19:31:17 <michael_fairchild> James: for the sliders that are using aria-orientation, where are we at on that?
19:32:34 <michael_fairchild> Matt: we had a discussion about labels, and decided to add role=none on the SVG element
19:33:22 <michael_fairchild> Jon: and role=slider is on an g element inside the SVG with role=none
19:35:32 <michael_fairchild> Matt: for toolbar, I have a question for Seth. What month of the year do you think we will have the ability to include tests that are not in the APG, such as atomic ARIA or atomic HTML tests?
19:36:19 <michael_fairchild> Seth: It's mainly just a matter of making sure that the scripts to pull in example are generic enough. Should we prioritize this?
19:37:08 <michael_fairchild> Matt: toolbar might require this.
19:37:33 <michael_fairchild> Matt: at some point, we might decide that the APG tests don't actually belong in the APG repo
19:37:58 <michael_fairchild> Matt: so I think the base capability here is making where we pull tests from configurable
19:38:37 <michael_fairchild> Seth: there is additional engineering work, so we would want to have some conversations about this but it should be driven by a test writing need
19:38:48 <michael_fairchild> Matt: there is a need
19:40:15 <michael_fairchild> James: from a test writing perspective, this is currently possible, but perhaps not ideal.
19:41:41 <michael_fairchild> Matt: we could come up with a directory naming structure for our tests
19:43:34 <michael_fairchild> James: we could make this as simple as possible. In references.csv, we have two rows for design pattern and example. We could update that format to define a source of something like 'apg' or 'other'. Or if there is no design pattern link, then it is not an APG example.
19:44:17 <michael_fairchild> Matt: when we get to toolbar, maybe that's when we implement that iterative approach
19:44:37 <michael_fairchild> Matt: but I do see this rippling through everything, even to the reporting
19:45:23 <michael_fairchild> Seth: I think there is a way to sneak them in right now, then there next step is to update our metadata fields are more generic, then we can update the UI
19:47:05 <michael_fairchild> Matt: I have merged the stuff that I can merge, but some PRs have conflicts in the keys file
19:47:21 <michael_fairchild> Matt: those are real conflicts that actually need to be resolved
19:49:25 <michael_fairchild> (further discussion on resolving conflicts)
19:53:36 <michael_fairchild> topic: Running and reviewing current tests
19:54:00 <michael_fairchild> Matt: now that we have merged these tests, we want the CG to run these tests and provide feedback.
19:54:53 <michael_fairchild> Matt: so this is an opportunity for people to do testing. Should we formalize this process, or should we just ask people to pick their own tests and run them?
19:55:21 <michael_fairchild> Matt: if it's helpful, we could formalize the process
19:56:32 <michael_fairchild> Michael: I think formalizing the process would be good
19:57:05 <michael_fairchild> Jon: I do encourage more people to get involved. If there are assignments, it might help people get involved.
19:57:30 <michael_fairchild> Matt: Should we send an email to the list and recruit people for specific tests?
19:58:55 <michael_fairchild> Rob: Should I test with all of the screen readers, or is testing with only one okay?
19:59:08 <michael_fairchild> Matt: we are happy with whatever you can do
20:00:54 <michael_fairchild> Matt: it would be good if we could have someone help coordinate this
20:03:00 <michael_fairchild> Michael: should we discuss this on our next call?
20:03:14 <michael_fairchild> Matt: yes, James is that okay?
20:03:23 <michael_fairchild> James: yes
20:05:09 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
20:05:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/25-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King