IRC log of rqtf on 2021-03-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/24-rqtf-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs public

12:48:28 [Zakim]

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12:48:30 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

12:48:30 [trackbot]

Date: 24 March 2021

12:48:49 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ RAUR: updates and issues.

12:49:05 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ XAUR: updates and issues.

12:49:08 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Media synchronization research.

12:49:08 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities update.

12:49:12 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of remote meetings.

12:49:14 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of natural language interfaces.

12:49:17 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Miscellaneous updates and topics relevant to Task Force work.

12:49:31 [jasonjgw]

zakim, list agenda

12:49:31 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:

12:49:33 [Zakim]

1. RAUR: updates and issues. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:33 [Zakim]

2. XAUR: updates and issues. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:33 [Zakim]

3. Media synchronization research. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:33 [Zakim]

4. Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities update. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:33 [Zakim]

5. Accessibility of remote meetings. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:34 [Zakim]

6. Accessibility of natural language interfaces. [from jasonjgw]

12:49:34 [Zakim]

7. Miscellaneous updates and topics relevant to Task Force work. [from jasonjgw]

12:50:25 [jasonjgw]

chair: jasonjgw

12:50:31 [jasonjgw]

present+

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13:03:10 [Judy]

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13:03:57 [SteveNoble]

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13:04:13 [Judy]

[JB gives partial regrets as I continue to be held over in another meeting, hopefully can join soon]

13:04:27 [SteveNoble]

present+

13:04:29 [joconnor]

present+

13:05:11 [joconnor]

scribe: joconnor

13:05:16 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

13:05:16 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- RAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:06:53 [jasonjgw]

https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/474

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13:07:09 [jasonjgw]

https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476

13:07:11 [janina]

jo: walks through them ...

13:07:23 [joconnor]

https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/474

13:07:29 [janina]

jo: issue 474 is for live meetings

13:07:31 [joconnor]

WCAG Accessibility Guidelines - Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom - generating accurate text content #474

13:07:51 [janina]

scribe: janina

13:08:06 [janina]

o: issue has several points re deaf-blind, all interesting use cases

13:08:38 [janina]

jo: Comes down to tracking who's speaking and meaning of words spoken being captured

13:08:53 [janina]

jo: I saw it as punctuation

13:09:11 [janina]

jo: Point is that punct can change meaning

13:09:48 [janina]

jo: Believe RAUR handles first points well; punct is AI, not standards

13:10:47 [janina]

jgw: Also comfortable no issue for RAUR

13:11:01 [janina]

jgw: Believe reading rate was main issue with second one

13:11:22 [janina]

jo: Still under 474

13:11:25 [joconnor]

WCAG 3.0 accessibility guidelines: Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom - receipt of streamed text content #476

13:11:27 [janina]

jgw: referring to 476

13:11:28 [joconnor]

https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476

13:12:10 [janina]

jgw: full transcript and summary captions -- reading rate for whomever

13:12:32 [janina]

jgw: Notes debate in caption community how detailed captions should be

13:12:56 [janina]

jgw: Didn't see RAUR refer to braille, though phps implied?

13:13:09 [janina]

jo: Don't believe it's explicit

13:13:22 [janina]

jo: But user need 5 should cover

13:13:47 [janina]

jo: Isn't that a UA issue?

13:13:58 [janina]

q+

13:14:10 [janina]

jgw: Wouldn't want to hold up pub over this

13:14:20 [joconnor]

ack janina

13:14:35 [joconnor]

JS: It isn't the job of the standard to scale to an individuals reading rate

13:14:54 [joconnor]

It is maybe a User agent requirement, and is covered in the MAUR

13:15:12 [joconnor]

but in a live telecom situation, I dont think this is pertinant

13:15:28 [joconnor]

In a different situation

13:16:11 [joconnor]

A meeting doesn't go slower than the slowest person

13:16:19 [janina]

jgw: Issue suggeted 15 wpm

13:16:21 [joconnor]

Average speaking rate is 150-200

13:16:58 [joconnor]

<discussion on braile speed reading variances>

13:17:43 [joconnor]

JS: We can discuss these further, and should respond more deeply

13:18:00 [joconnor]

But the goal is to ask CFC to run for publication.

13:18:40 [joconnor]

JS: URIs to RAUR where in the RQTF wiki, and WAI CC page need to be updated.

13:18:43 [joconnor]

Josh to check]

13:20:30 [joconnor]

JW: I think there is more to discuss on this issue

13:20:41 [joconnor]

We could publish the XAUR first

13:20:56 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

13:20:56 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:20:59 [joconnor]

JS: I think we should discuss that

13:21:30 [joconnor]

zakim, take up item 1

13:21:30 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- RAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:22:21 [joconnor]

JOC: Should we delay publication and discuss this?

13:22:28 [joconnor]

JS: I dont know what we can do.

13:22:41 [joconnor]

JW: It could be handled by negotiation in a meeting.

13:23:16 [joconnor]

JW: Arguabley not a software requirement

13:23:28 [joconnor]

JS: A change to the RAUR for this?

13:23:33 [joconnor]

JOC: I dont think so

13:23:40 [joconnor]

JS: We can do the response another time.

13:24:13 [joconnor]

Email: Comment: WCAG 3.0 - Issue: Accessibility to Web Content Requiring a CAPCHA for Access #475

13:24:23 [joconnor]

JS: This is not relevant to the RAUR

13:25:36 [joconnor]

JOC: We need a URI for the CFC for RAUR

13:26:47 [joconnor]

JS: We could do a resolution here that does not provide the URI

13:29:16 [joconnor]

JOC: Josh to get every ready for creating a CFC ready URI

13:30:48 [janina]

draft RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA issue a Call for Consensus on two documents to be published as W3C Notes, the RAUR and the XAUR

13:31:48 [janina]

RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA issue a Call for Consensus on two documents to be published as W3C Notes, the RAUR and the XAUR.

13:34:00 [jasonjgw]

zakim, take up item 3

13:34:00 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Media synchronization research. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:34:24 [joconnor]

JW: Steve wanted to discuss, any follow up?

13:34:51 [joconnor]

SN: I've been finding time to do more research

13:35:14 [joconnor]

There is not so much research regarding sycnchronisation

13:35:35 [joconnor]

You get some in gov depts and large productions

13:35:45 [joconnor]

s/sycnchronisation/synchronisation

13:36:15 [joconnor]

SN: On our team we have a member with a sign language translator, who works on the fly

13:36:30 [joconnor]

I've found one interesting one from 2020

13:37:01 [joconnor]

called 'an empirical study on relay etc'

13:37:29 [joconnor]

they looked at international meetings, interpreted into oral language => sign etc

13:37:49 [joconnor]

So teasing out the timing of these SL translations is tricky

13:38:19 [joconnor]

There is less info that I'd like, there are natural factors that will delay this kind of interpretation

13:38:31 [joconnor]

SL is not word for word

13:38:42 [joconnor]

Natural latency

13:39:02 [joconnor]

I need to capture that for our doc

13:39:34 [joconnor]

<Other issues on speaking rate etc for captions discussed>.

13:40:14 [joconnor]

Captions that are in sync are considered acceptable by the deaf community within a certain tolerance

13:40:25 [joconnor]

<Steve discusses BBC study>

13:41:20 [joconnor]

Where they varied speaking rate/captions

13:41:37 [joconnor]

Fast captions ok for Top Gear, but not for Cooking programs

13:41:58 [joconnor]

Interesting comparison

13:43:01 [joconnor]

<Steve discusses studies where people who didn't sign as a first language>

13:43:37 [joconnor]

In the literature, people who are native SL speakers, they dont have the same reading ability at the same rate

13:43:48 [joconnor]

This is the use case for slowing things down

13:44:09 [joconnor]

SN: I'll continue to look at this

13:44:40 [joconnor]

Jason has mentioned sync with audio/video tracks.

13:44:50 [joconnor]

Is this something that you want to look at?

13:45:06 [joconnor]

JS: If there is research that demonstrates ability there.

13:45:28 [joconnor]

The MAUR considers use cases where it matters that you dont block spoken dialog - and those where it doesn't

13:45:39 [joconnor]

SN: Pre-recorded..

13:45:48 [joconnor]

JS: Yes, different scenarios

13:47:08 [joconnor]

JS: I've seen On Prime, where translations are done from various languages to sign

13:47:33 [joconnor]

SN: also I've seen in broadway show, that the blind user may get the joke before e'one else

13:47:49 [joconnor]

JB: That's terrible

13:47:53 [joconnor]

<laughs all round>

13:48:14 [joconnor]

JS: I've spent some time looking at Steves doc and think it is good.

13:48:24 [joconnor]

We may not find a lot of research

13:48:47 [joconnor]

Early vs late will still apply - lets tease this out and wrap it up.

13:48:49 [joconnor]

SN: Ok

13:49:19 [joconnor]

JS: Timed Text will find this useful, as well as Silver

13:49:25 [joconnor]

JW: Sounds good

13:49:50 [joconnor]

JW: Comments?

13:50:18 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

13:50:18 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:50:29 [jasonjgw]

zakim, take up item 4

13:50:29 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities update. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:50:45 [joconnor]

JS: This is delayed, short story

13:51:38 [joconnor]

JS: I reviewed and there are some blockers for me.

13:52:12 [joconnor]

JW: I found similar issues, where user needs are described in one place, with requirements in others and repetition

13:52:19 [joconnor]

JS: EO had a similar comment

13:52:36 [joconnor]

JW: I'd prefer something more conscise similar to RAUR/XAUR

13:52:48 [joconnor]

JS: Some of this will get handled before CFC

13:53:05 [joconnor]

A few things will change to make the doc better - not massive changes needed

13:53:44 [joconnor]

JW: My colleague is reviewing

13:53:58 [joconnor]

JS: It will move forward

13:54:15 [joconnor]

JB: There are also other comments that have not been addressed

13:55:54 [joconnor]

JW: The TF should just be aware there will be a CFC on this soon

13:56:11 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

13:56:11 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:56:25 [jasonjgw]

zakim, take up item 5

13:56:25 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- Accessibility of remote meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

13:56:42 [joconnor]

JW: We got Scotts update on the list

13:57:16 [joconnor]

JB: Scott and I did discuss, he expressed a preference to take this off for a few weeks and work on it.

13:57:23 [joconnor]

I've reservations on this

13:57:35 [joconnor]

There has been multiple contributors.

13:58:01 [joconnor]

My understanding is that we would bring it back to the group.

13:58:20 [joconnor]

I'd like the comments to go to the RQTF list to remain transparent.

13:58:50 [joconnor]

JB: I'll reply on list - great to have this offer of help

13:58:57 [joconnor]

but the dialog needs to be within the group

13:59:16 [joconnor]

JW: We will review Scotts work.

13:59:33 [joconnor]

<kudos for Scotts work>

14:00:00 [joconnor]

JW: We can find a home for things that aren't in the RAUR and put it in an appropriate deliverable

14:01:19 [Judy]

s/I've reservations on this/I let him know I had reservations on this/

14:01:23 [jasonjgw]

zakim, bye

14:01:23 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, SteveNoble, joconnor

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14:01:29 [jasonjgw]

rrsagent, make mnutes

14:01:29 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mnutes', jasonjgw. Try /msg RRSAgent help

14:01:43 [jasonjgw]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:01:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/24-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw

14:02:00 [Judy]

s/we would bring it back to the group/he's bring it back to me, then we would bring it back to the group/

14:02:15 [Judy]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:02:15 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/24-rqtf-minutes.html Judy

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