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12:48:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:48:30 <trackbot> Date: 24 March 2021
12:48:49 <jasonjgw> agenda+ RAUR: updates and issues.
12:49:05 <jasonjgw> agenda+ XAUR: updates and issues.
12:49:08 <jasonjgw> agenda+        Media synchronization research.
12:49:08 <jasonjgw> agenda+        Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities  update.
12:49:12 <jasonjgw> agenda+        Accessibility of remote meetings.
12:49:14 <jasonjgw> agenda+        Accessibility of natural language interfaces.
12:49:17 <jasonjgw> agenda+        Miscellaneous updates and topics relevant to Task Force work.
12:49:31 <jasonjgw> zakim, list agenda
12:49:31 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
12:49:33 <Zakim> 1. RAUR: updates and issues. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:33 <Zakim> 2. XAUR: updates and issues. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:33 <Zakim> 3. Media synchronization research. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:33 <Zakim> 4. Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities  update. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:33 <Zakim> 5. Accessibility of remote meetings. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:34 <Zakim> 6. Accessibility of natural language interfaces. [from jasonjgw]
12:49:34 <Zakim> 7. Miscellaneous updates and topics relevant to Task Force work. [from jasonjgw]
12:50:25 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
12:50:31 <jasonjgw> present+
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13:03:10 <Judy> Judy has joined #rqtf
13:03:57 <SteveNoble> SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
13:04:13 <Judy> [JB gives partial regrets as I continue to be held over in another meeting, hopefully can join soon]
13:04:27 <SteveNoble> present+
13:04:29 <joconnor> present+
13:05:11 <joconnor> scribe: joconnor
13:05:16 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:05:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- RAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:06:53 <jasonjgw> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/474
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13:07:09 <jasonjgw> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476
13:07:11 <janina> jo: walks through them ...
13:07:23 <joconnor> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/474
13:07:29 <janina> jo: issue 474 is for live meetings
13:07:31 <joconnor> WCAG Accessibility Guidelines - Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom - generating accurate text content #474
13:07:51 <janina> scribe: janina
13:08:06 <janina> o: issue has several points re deaf-blind, all interesting use cases
13:08:38 <janina> jo: Comes down to tracking who's speaking and meaning of words spoken being captured
13:08:53 <janina> jo: I saw it as punctuation
13:09:11 <janina> jo: Point is that punct can change meaning
13:09:48 <janina> jo: Believe RAUR handles first points well; punct is AI, not standards
13:10:47 <janina> jgw: Also comfortable no issue for RAUR
13:11:01 <janina> jgw: Believe reading rate was main issue with second one
13:11:22 <janina> jo: Still under 474
13:11:25 <joconnor> WCAG 3.0 accessibility guidelines: Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom - receipt of streamed text content #476
13:11:27 <janina> jgw: referring to 476
13:11:28 <joconnor> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476
13:12:10 <janina> jgw: full transcript and summary captions -- reading rate for whomever
13:12:32 <janina> jgw: Notes debate in caption community how detailed captions should be
13:12:56 <janina> jgw: Didn't see RAUR refer to braille, though phps implied?
13:13:09 <janina> jo: Don't believe it's explicit
13:13:22 <janina> jo: But user need 5 should cover
13:13:47 <janina> jo: Isn't that a UA issue?
13:13:58 <janina> q+
13:14:10 <janina> jgw: Wouldn't want to hold up pub over this
13:14:20 <joconnor> ack janina
13:14:35 <joconnor> JS: It isn't the job of the standard to scale to an individuals reading rate
13:14:54 <joconnor> It is maybe a User agent requirement, and is covered in the MAUR
13:15:12 <joconnor> but in a live telecom situation, I dont think this is pertinant
13:15:28 <joconnor> In a different situation
13:16:11 <joconnor> A meeting doesn't go slower than the slowest person
13:16:19 <janina> jgw: Issue suggeted 15 wpm
13:16:21 <joconnor> Average speaking rate is 150-200
13:16:58 <joconnor> <discussion on braile speed reading variances>
13:17:43 <joconnor> JS: We can discuss these further, and should respond more deeply
13:18:00 <joconnor> But the goal is to ask CFC to run for publication.
13:18:40 <joconnor> JS: URIs to RAUR where in the RQTF wiki, and WAI CC page need to be updated.
13:18:43 <joconnor> Josh to check]
13:20:30 <joconnor> JW: I think there is more to discuss on this issue
13:20:41 <joconnor> We could publish the XAUR first
13:20:56 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:20:56 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:20:59 <joconnor> JS: I think we should discuss that
13:21:30 <joconnor> zakim, take up item 1
13:21:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- RAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:22:21 <joconnor> JOC: Should we delay publication and discuss this?
13:22:28 <joconnor> JS: I dont know what we can do.
13:22:41 <joconnor> JW: It could be handled by negotiation in a meeting.
13:23:16 <joconnor> JW: Arguabley not a software requirement
13:23:28 <joconnor> JS: A change to the RAUR for this?
13:23:33 <joconnor> JOC: I dont think so
13:23:40 <joconnor> JS: We can do the response another time.
13:24:13 <joconnor> Email: Comment: WCAG 3.0 - Issue: Accessibility to Web Content Requiring a CAPCHA for Access #475
13:24:23 <joconnor> JS: This is not relevant to the RAUR
13:25:36 <joconnor> JOC: We need a URI for the CFC for RAUR
13:26:47 <joconnor> JS: We could do a resolution here that does not provide the URI
13:29:16 <joconnor> JOC: Josh to get every ready for creating a CFC ready URI
13:30:48 <janina> draft RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA issue a Call for Consensus on two documents to be published as W3C Notes, the RAUR and the XAUR
13:31:48 <janina> RESOLUTION: RQTF requests APA issue a Call for Consensus on two documents to be published as W3C Notes, the RAUR and the XAUR.
13:34:00 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up item 3
13:34:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Media synchronization research. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:34:24 <joconnor> JW: Steve wanted to discuss, any follow up?
13:34:51 <joconnor> SN: I've been finding time to do more research
13:35:14 <joconnor> There is not so much research regarding sycnchronisation
13:35:35 <joconnor> You get some in gov depts and large productions
13:35:45 <joconnor> s/sycnchronisation/synchronisation
13:36:15 <joconnor> SN: On our team we have a member with a sign language translator, who works on the fly
13:36:30 <joconnor> I've found one interesting one from 2020
13:37:01 <joconnor> called 'an empirical study on relay etc'
13:37:29 <joconnor> they looked at international meetings, interpreted into oral language => sign etc
13:37:49 <joconnor> So teasing out the timing of these SL translations is tricky
13:38:19 <joconnor> There is less info that I'd like, there are natural factors that will delay this kind of interpretation
13:38:31 <joconnor> SL is not word for word
13:38:42 <joconnor> Natural latency
13:39:02 <joconnor> I need to capture that for our doc
13:39:34 <joconnor> <Other issues on speaking rate etc for captions discussed>.
13:40:14 <joconnor> Captions that are in sync are considered acceptable by the deaf community within a certain tolerance
13:40:25 <joconnor> <Steve discusses BBC study>
13:41:20 <joconnor> Where they varied speaking rate/captions
13:41:37 <joconnor> Fast captions ok for Top Gear, but not for Cooking programs
13:41:58 <joconnor> Interesting comparison
13:43:01 <joconnor> <Steve discusses studies where people who didn't sign as a first language>
13:43:37 <joconnor> In the literature, people who are native SL speakers, they dont have the same reading ability at the same rate
13:43:48 <joconnor> This is the use case for slowing things down
13:44:09 <joconnor> SN: I'll continue to look at this
13:44:40 <joconnor> Jason has mentioned sync with audio/video tracks.
13:44:50 <joconnor> Is this something that you want to look at?
13:45:06 <joconnor> JS: If there is research that demonstrates ability there.
13:45:28 <joconnor> The MAUR considers use cases where it matters that you dont block spoken dialog - and those where it doesn't
13:45:39 <joconnor> SN: Pre-recorded..
13:45:48 <joconnor> JS: Yes, different scenarios
13:47:08 <joconnor> JS: I've seen On Prime, where translations are done from various languages to sign
13:47:33 <joconnor> SN: also I've seen in broadway show, that the blind user may get the joke before e'one else
13:47:49 <joconnor> JB: That's terrible
13:47:53 <joconnor> <laughs all round>
13:48:14 <joconnor> JS: I've spent some time looking at Steves doc and think it is good.
13:48:24 <joconnor> We may not find a lot of research
13:48:47 <joconnor> Early vs late will still apply - lets tease this out and wrap it up.
13:48:49 <joconnor> SN: Ok
13:49:19 <joconnor> JS: Timed Text will find this useful, as well as Silver
13:49:25 <joconnor> JW: Sounds good
13:49:50 <joconnor> JW: Comments?
13:50:18 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:50:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:50:29 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up item 4
13:50:29 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities  update. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:50:45 <joconnor> JS: This is delayed, short story
13:51:38 <joconnor> JS: I reviewed and there are some blockers for me.
13:52:12 <joconnor> JW: I found similar issues, where user needs are described in one place, with requirements in others and repetition
13:52:19 <joconnor> JS: EO had a similar comment
13:52:36 <joconnor> JW: I'd prefer something more conscise similar to RAUR/XAUR
13:52:48 <joconnor> JS: Some of this will get handled before CFC
13:53:05 <joconnor> A few things will change to make the doc better - not massive changes needed
13:53:44 <joconnor> JW: My colleague is reviewing
13:53:58 <joconnor> JS: It will move forward
13:54:15 <joconnor> JB: There are also other comments that have not been addressed
13:55:54 <joconnor> JW: The TF should just be aware there will be a CFC on this soon
13:56:11 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:56:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- XAUR: updates and issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:56:25 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up item 5
13:56:25 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Accessibility of remote meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:56:42 <joconnor> JW: We got Scotts update on the list
13:57:16 <joconnor> JB: Scott and I did discuss, he expressed a preference to take this off for a few weeks and work on it.
13:57:23 <joconnor> I've reservations on this
13:57:35 <joconnor> There has been multiple contributors.
13:58:01 <joconnor> My understanding is that we would bring it back to the group.
13:58:20 <joconnor> I'd like the comments to go to the RQTF list to remain transparent.
13:58:50 <joconnor> JB: I'll reply on list - great to have this offer of help
13:58:57 <joconnor> but the dialog needs to be within the group
13:59:16 <joconnor> JW: We will review Scotts work.
13:59:33 <joconnor> <kudos for Scotts work>
14:00:00 <joconnor> JW: We can find a home for things that aren't in the RAUR and put it in an appropriate deliverable
14:01:19 <Judy> s/I've reservations on this/I let him know I had reservations on this/
14:01:23 <jasonjgw> zakim, bye
14:01:23 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, SteveNoble, joconnor
14:01:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rqtf
14:01:29 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make mnutes
14:01:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mnutes', jasonjgw.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:01:43 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
14:01:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/24-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw
14:02:00 <Judy> s/we would bring it back to the group/he's bring it back to me, then we would bring it back to the group/
14:02:15 <Judy> rrsagent, make minutes
14:02:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/24-rqtf-minutes.html Judy
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