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18:47:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/23-immersive-web-irc
18:47:30 <yonet>  /invite zakim #immersive-web 
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18:48:19 <atsushi> rrsagent, make minutes public
18:48:19 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', atsushi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:48:30 <atsushi> rrsagent, make log public
18:49:17 <yonet> Thank you Atsushi, nice to see you!
18:49:33 <atsushi> ;)
18:50:10 <atsushi> meeting: Immersive Web Working Group
18:50:42 <atsushi> agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/wg/2021-03-23-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
18:51:54 <yonet> Chair: Ayşegül Yönet
18:52:11 <atsushi> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/03/09-immersive-web-minutes.html
18:53:02 <atsushi> agenda+ marker-tracking#5 Marker / image tracking spec status [klausw]
18:53:33 <atsushi> agenda+ webxr#1183 Add clarification on user interaction and permission for installed apps [cabanier]
18:54:09 <yonet> present+
19:00:49 <Manishearth> present+
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19:01:59 <Leonard> present+
19:02:07 <cwilso> present+
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19:03:20 <cabanier> present+
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19:03:35 <klausw> present+
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19:04:13 <Leonard> scribe Leonard
19:04:56 <Leonard> Klaus: Marker/image tracker
19:04:56 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/marker-tracking/issues/5
19:05:34 <Leonard> ... wants to know what people think and how to proceed
19:05:50 <Leonard> ... what should be done if there is no image/marker tracking on APIU
19:06:00 <Leonard> s/APIU/API
19:06:01 <Leonard> q+
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19:06:23 <Nick-8thWall> q+
19:06:50 <Leonard> Klaus: API designed to be more privacy perserving. Does not like the ability to dected & recognize arbitrary QR codes
19:07:06 <Leonard> Up to user agent to determine which types of images can be tracked
19:07:25 <Leonard> ... concerned that these limitations may disadvantage the API
19:07:46 <bajones> q+ to clarify issues with they types of images a browser may "support"
19:07:49 <yonet> ack Leonard
19:08:00 <Manishearth> Leonard: Are you aware that khronos has just started an
19:08:09 <Manishearth> ... embedded camera focus group to see where things stand
19:08:16 <Manishearth> ... unsure how that'll impact things but seems relevant
19:08:27 <Manishearth> klausw: not aware but good to keep an eye on. unsure how it would impact
19:08:33 <Manishearth> Leonard: idk but it's an open group
19:08:35 <yonet> ack Nick-8thWall
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19:08:58 <Leonard> Kalaus: ... If not this API, then what?
19:09:36 <cperey> hello
19:09:57 <cperey> would someone please share the webex link?
19:10:12 <Leonard> Nick: Large number of good quality QR code detectors. Does this impact any choices made for the API?
19:10:44 <klausw> q+
19:10:58 <cperey> thankyou!
19:11:12 <yonet> ack bajones
19:11:12 <Zakim> bajones, you wanted to clarify issues with they types of images a browser may "support"
19:11:15 <Leonard> ... Looking to the future, you don't want to anticipate all future needs. Looking for a cross-platform feed that each application can deal with on their own.
19:12:58 <Leonard> Brandon: Different developers have different algorithms that may have make physical objects good or bad tracking sources.
19:13:24 <Dylan_Fox_XR_Access> q+ would like to share "Navilens" codes from CSUN Assistive Tech Conference
19:13:46 <Dylan_Fox_XR_Access> q+
19:13:53 <Leonard> ... repeating objects (e.g., brick building with windows) don't necessarily track real well, except Microsoft devices
19:14:01 <Leonard> ... that are tuned for that.
19:14:13 <Dylan_Fox_XR_Access> https://free.navilens.com/ - looks to have powerful accessibility applications as seen in Barcelona
19:14:45 <yonet> ack klausw
19:14:48 <Leonard> ... Not too concerned about object-specific tracking
19:15:17 <Leonard> Klaus: AR Code refuses to track QR codes or bar charts.
19:15:53 <cabanier> q+
19:15:59 <Leonard> ... Certain headsets with extra cameras, those devices may provide extra tracking capabilities; especially items
19:16:09 <Leonard> ... generally out of view
19:16:18 <yonet> ack cabanier
19:16:41 <Leonard> Rik: Does not expose access to B&W cameras used for tracking.
19:16:44 <yonet> ack Dylan_Fox_XR_Access
19:16:49 <cabanier> q-
19:17:34 <Leonard> Dylan: Saw Navilens uses QR codes with color that have improved detection and readability. Used in Barcellona for
19:17:49 <klausw> q+
19:18:29 <Leonard> ... bus stops and other public places. Seems to have uses with people with visual impairments.
19:18:39 <bialpio> q+
19:18:47 <Leonard> Aysegul: Implement in AR Core?
19:18:59 <Leonard> Dylan: Use in Hololens
19:19:02 <yonet> ack klausw
19:19:40 <Leonard> Klaus: Suspects that there may be issues with scale and multiple objects:
19:19:46 <bialpio> q-
19:19:52 <Leonard> [Dylan note: https://free.navilens.com/ - looks to have powerful accessibility applications as seen in Barcelona]
19:20:05 <Dylan_Fox_XR_Access> Better link - https://www.navilens.com/
19:20:44 <Leonard> Klaus: Might better work out with video feed (raw camera) and browser-based detector algorithm.
19:20:58 <klausw> q+
19:21:05 <yonet> ack klausw
19:21:08 <Leonard> yonet: Does Hololens support this at the device level?
19:21:19 <Leonard> Lachlan: I don't think so
19:21:44 <Nick-8thWall> q+
19:22:05 <Leonard> Klaus: Not sure how the public reacts to privacy concerns with app access to raw camera data.
19:22:27 <Leonard> ... Prefers privacy protections, but may depend on public acceptance & use
19:22:31 <yonet> ack Nick-8thWall
19:23:07 <Leonard> Nick: Sees a lot of people using 8th Wall permissions for camera access
19:23:25 <jgilbert> q+
19:23:25 <Leonard> ... Thinks camera permissions easier to understand that Immersive processing
19:23:51 <Leonard> yonet: What is confusing about Immersive Web?
19:24:20 <Leonard> Nick: Not sure, needs to re-read it. Thinks it is something about tracking your position in space over time
19:24:41 <yonet> ack jgilbert
19:24:45 <Leonard> ... there are other experiences (FB) so they can judge value
19:27:13 <Leonard> Jeff Gilbert: _thoughts on how to develop a better persmission system, including requests, reasons, descriptions, etc._
19:27:48 <Nick-8thWall> q+
19:27:50 <Leonard> yonet: No further discussion, but no resolution. Should move to GitHub?
19:27:56 <Leonard> Klaus: Agrees
19:28:09 <yonet> ack Nick-8thWall
19:28:44 <Leonard> Nick: Willing to help with testing and expirmentation
19:28:52 <Leonard> Klaus: Thanks, will contact.
19:29:00 <Leonard> Moving on to agenda #2
19:29:10 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1183
19:29:17 <yonet> agenda+ https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1183
19:29:37 <Leonard> Piotr: Thinks this has been resolved after conversation with Manish & Brandon
19:30:11 <Leonard> s/Piotr/Rik/
19:30:32 <Leonard> ... Don't think any changes are needed
19:31:43 <yonet> awk
19:31:43 <Leonard> No questions/comments. --- Short break ----
19:32:47 <Manishearth> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1178
19:32:57 <Leonard> Manish: Introduce issue - https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1178
19:33:54 <Leonard> ... Request session with features/permissions, then closes. A new session would have those granted permissions.
19:34:44 <Leonard> ... This exists because permissions might be needed prior to session start OR add permissions during the session
19:35:18 <Manishearth> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1178#issuecomment-805161134
19:35:48 <Leonard> ... Issue has some analysis and potential solutions (see above)
19:36:02 <Leonard> ... Plan to address this in a future meeting.
19:36:23 <Leonard> yonet: Are asking for in-session UI, how does it look and how does the user interact?
19:36:51 <Leonard> Manish: Not directly part of this issue. The process is UA dependent and defined.
19:38:16 <Leonard> No further discussions. Meeting adjurned until 2 weeks (April 6)
19:38:21 <Leonard> present -
19:39:27 <yonet> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:39:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/23-immersive-web-minutes.html yonet
23:59:59 <scribe> s/scribe Leonard/scribe: Leonard/
23:59:59 <scribe> i|Klaus: Marker/image tracker|topic: marker-tracking#5 Marker / image tracking spec status [klausw]
23:59:59 <scribe> s/Up to user agent to determine which/... Up to user agent to determine which/
23:59:59 <scribe> i/Leonard: Are you aware/scribe: Manishearth/
23:59:59 <scribe> i/Kalaus: ... If not this API/scribe: Leonard/
23:59:59 <scribe> s/Jeff Gilbert:/Jeff_Gilbert:/
23:59:59 <scribe> i|Moving on to agenda #2|topic: webxr#1183 Add clarification on user interaction and permission for installed apps [cabanier]
23:59:59 <scribe> i|https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1178|topic: WebXR #1178 Use session's requested features instead of session device's enabled features to check if a reference space is supported