15:38:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #md-odrl-profile
15:38:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-irc
15:38:18 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:38:19 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jo_
15:38:38 <jo_> Meeting: Market Data Rights Automation Teleconference
15:38:45 <jo_> chair: Jo
15:38:53 <jo_> regrets: renato
15:39:30 <jo_> agenda: https://w3c.github.io/market-data-odrl-profile/agendas/md-odrl-profile-agenda-2021-03-17.html
15:54:25 <belen> belen has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:49 <Ian_> Ian_ has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:51 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:57 <ben> ben has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:02:16 <mark_bird> mark_bird has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:02:26 <michelleR> michelleR has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:03:20 <Kyle> Kyle has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:04:21 <jo_> scribe: joshuaCornejo
16:04:35 <jo_> Topic: Admin
16:04:59 <jo_> https://w3c.github.io/market-data-odrl-profile/agendas/md-odrl-profile-agenda-2021-03-17.html
16:05:44 <jo_> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last meeting
16:06:25 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: noticing that there are guests today, it is good to notice the formality <describes the formalities>
16:07:10 <NigelP> NigelP has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:07:35 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: trying to share my screen
16:07:37 <jo_> Topic: Compliance and Redistribution PoC
16:07:51 <joshuaCornejo> ... we wanted to do an end-to-end demo
16:08:04 <joshuaCornejo> From a consumer to a provider/provider-administrator
16:08:37 <joshuaCornejo> ... we looked for something that has lots of cross-supply chain interactions
16:08:51 <joshuaCornejo> ... and if we could replace those with web-based or M2M requests
16:09:06 <joshuaCornejo> ... we also wanted to look at the end value of this, can we implement some kind of enforcement
16:09:23 <joshuaCornejo> ... the final area we thought it could touch was the overhead of maintenance
16:09:31 <joshuaCornejo> ... because there is a significant overhead
16:09:38 <joshuaCornejo> ... and looking to automate those kinds of changes
16:09:47 <joshuaCornejo> ... we picked out one particular use case: redistribution
16:09:56 <joshuaCornejo> ... we know that causes certain amount of heartache
16:10:09 <joshuaCornejo> ... looking to automating consent of redistribution
16:10:22 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes the sequence diagram of the use case>
16:11:15 <jo_> present: jo, ben, josh, michelle, belen, markb, nigelp, kyle, ian, paul
16:13:12 <jo_> present+ michael_aagon, alex, ali, justinas_alisaukas, andrew_dunkley, atiq, ian_bone, jorge_di_pasqua
16:13:50 <joshuaCornejo> Marko: need to share my screen
16:14:17 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes the proof of concept>
16:15:26 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: and you just sucked in this from DataBP via ODRL ?
16:15:29 <joshuaCornejo> Marko: yes
16:15:53 <jo_> present+ elizabeth_pritchard, emily, wilson_ferrer, richard_folsom, jeremy, gerardo_kilmurray, laura, letitia, jairy_meneses, mevan, fernando_nitz, roy, ilya
16:16:04 <jo_> zakim, who is here?
16:16:04 <Zakim> Present: jo, ben, josh, michelle, belen, markb, nigelp, kyle, ian, paul, michael_aagon, alex, ali, justinas_alisaukas, andrew_dunkley, atiq, ian_bone, jorge_di_pasqua,
16:16:07 <Zakim> ... elizabeth_pritchard, emily, wilson_ferrer, richard_folsom, jeremy, gerardo_kilmurray, laura, letitia, jairy_meneses, mevan, fernando_nitz, roy, ilya
16:16:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see NigelP, Kyle, michelleR, mark_bird, ben, joshuaCornejo, Ian_, belen, RRSAgent, Zakim, jo_, notwendy
16:17:19 <jo_> present+ marko, paul
16:17:55 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: we've got a fake client application
16:18:13 <joshuaCornejo> ... the distribution component can understand the ODRL coming from the policy
16:18:38 <joshuaCornejo> ... <log in to the web application and starts the demo>
16:19:49 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: what Caspar has done is initiating a request to the content source
16:20:00 <joshuaCornejo> ... saying "can we distribute data to this 3rd party"
16:20:15 <joshuaCornejo> ... at this stage we send a "deny"
16:20:30 <joshuaCornejo> What could happen is that the user could go and create an approval
16:20:57 <joshuaCornejo> ... <mark describes his part of the PoC in detail>
16:23:20 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: you can see we are still in pending state, waiting for consent
16:23:42 <joshuaCornejo> ... in the background the access has been pulled down and now it has been granted
16:24:02 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes what was downloaded and the access that was granted>
16:24:10 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: do you want to change the updating text?
16:24:17 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: it is very dramatic
16:24:41 <joshuaCornejo> ... <goes and changes the entry in his part of the PoC>
16:25:27 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: now that we re-request, we can see the text has been updated
16:25:41 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: would be worth showing other use cases ?
16:26:27 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: <shows other use cases>
16:26:55 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we are speaking about a deontic state
16:27:51 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes the content of the message>
16:28:16 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: maybe stating the obvious, but we have 3 systems in play, moving in real-time
16:28:30 <joshuaCornejo> Atiq: demo worked first time, brilliant !
16:29:18 <joshuaCornejo> ... the real value is the workflow in the exchange between dataBP, deontic and Goldman Sacks
16:29:23 <joshuaCornejo> ... which is quite an achievement
16:29:58 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes the concepts>
16:30:07 <joshuaCornejo> ... and here we are building an API and how it might work
16:30:28 <joshuaCornejo> ... the reason why it is important is the business processes and what are the boundaries of responsibilities
16:30:50 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes more of the concepts>
16:31:26 <joshuaCornejo> ... the final part is maintenance/changes ... building that into the process will be a timesaver
16:31:56 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we will pick up some issues later in the meeting, what kind of testing we will be doing moving forward
16:32:17 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes some of the steps forward>
16:32:43 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: fantastic and successful demo
16:34:29 <joshuaCornejo> Emily: <asks Caspar about the uplift in the applications>
16:34:47 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: <describes the different components/processes/requirements for that uplift>
16:35:41 <joshuaCornejo> Emily: paraphrasing - there is some uplifting into the apps, and going forward there will be a minimum threshold of how that uplift will take place
16:35:50 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: <describes>
16:36:02 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: you were talking about real-time update in policies
16:36:19 <joshuaCornejo> ... do you see this as going directly to the exchange?
16:36:40 <joshuaCornejo> Atiq: we still have to workout what the right model is
16:36:51 <joshuaCornejo> ... <describes the gaps/components>
16:38:32 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we are working in a temporal model: in some cases we will receive a message today "this change will happen in 6 months time" ... and the system will work then it is effective
16:39:04 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: you can see from the demo I chose a date, but that could have been in the future
16:39:14 <joshuaCornejo> .. <describes how the PoC works>
16:39:36 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: that is an interesting concept, that it could happen systematically
16:39:48 <joshuaCornejo> Atiq: if it reduce toil of the repetitive things we do
16:40:02 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: I had the same question as Michelle
16:40:17 <joshuaCornejo> ... there maybe other requirements that they might put in
16:40:54 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: if you look at exchanges now and that you can add a new subscription, this model could be very useful
16:41:01 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: thank you everybody
16:41:24 <joshuaCornejo> ... you can add more questions via the email list
16:42:13 <jo_> Topic: FISD Webinar in June
16:43:14 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: spoke to FISD on the topic of digital rights, my own sense is that the June timing is very good
16:43:41 <joshuaCornejo> ... rather than talking about the standard itself, focus on what the next steps are
16:43:56 <joshuaCornejo> ... whether people think a presentation in June is worth it
16:44:00 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: and demos
16:44:04 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: many demos !
16:45:47 <joshuaCornejo> ... <continues talking about the elements of use for June's FISD Webinar>
16:46:05 <joshuaCornejo> ... and if we can show some demos, that's the most potent message
16:46:21 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: anyone disagrees ?
16:46:42 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: we should tailor the message carefully for the wider community that haven't been so involved
16:46:56 <jo_> RESOLUTION: We should pick up on the opportunity to present at FISD
16:46:59 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: I completely agree with that
16:47:37 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: a lot of the good work we've done has been defining test cases
16:48:02 <joshuaCornejo> ... and put some of that and communicate it to the broader audience
16:48:27 <Olga> Olga has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:48:33 <jo_> ACTION: Ben to call first coordination meeting to prepare for FISD
16:49:27 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: commits to deliver feedback in 2 weeks
16:50:06 <jo_> Topic: Interoperability Testing
16:50:52 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: one of the things that the work has emphasise is the importance of validation - validating policies, knowing what is mandatory and what doesn't have to be there. I think that as people start doing implementations and PoC's and pull that work and publish it as part of the report on the standard
16:51:08 <joshuaCornejo> ... and another thing that is on a very early stages is the compliance API's that we are using in this PoC
16:51:43 <joshuaCornejo> ... and it would be worth to address if the API is also a standard and where is its home
16:52:13 <joshuaCornejo> ... the work we've done over the past few weeks have shown the importance of validation and compliance. Atiq do you have any thoughts?
16:52:45 <joshuaCornejo> Atiq: yes, we should find a way to keep the compliance and not just the ODRL component, the API works and behaves
16:52:58 <joshuaCornejo> ... and have a clear standard and change management works around it
16:53:09 <joshuaCornejo> ... so far it has been largely around desktop
16:53:20 <joshuaCornejo> ... but we should do an analysis on that
16:53:27 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: Ilya what is your sense on this
16:53:42 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: you are probably talking code and a definition
16:54:21 <joshuaCornejo> ... <explains possible places to store the code>
16:54:38 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: should we keep collaboration in the test cases
16:54:47 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: such an interesting question for this group
16:55:07 <joshuaCornejo> ... there will be some interest in legacy organisations depending on the types of problems solved by this specification
16:55:35 <joshuaCornejo> ... depending on whether or not those API's are wide reaching enough
16:56:11 <joshuaCornejo> ... what maybe worth exposing is what data exchange is part of this API, so each group can work in what each part means for "them"
16:56:30 <joshuaCornejo> ... there are many implications and we haven't specify and can run into rabbit holes
16:57:16 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: it strikes me that API is a specific technology - we should get the models and try to specify in the context of flows and when (flows) people will be interested in things
16:57:53 <joshuaCornejo> Atiq: on the subject of an API as a framework, should we form a breakout group?
16:58:16 <joshuaCornejo> Jo: I'll action you for that
16:58:28 <jo_> ACTION: Atiq to arrange break out session on APIs
16:58:35 <jo_> Topic: AOB
16:59:51 <jo_> scribe: jo
17:00:31 <jo_> jo: Meeting reverts to 1100 US Eastern 1600 UK next time
17:00:44 <jo_> ... congrats again to demo-ers
17:01:04 <jo_> ... many thanks once again to Josh for scribing
17:01:14 <jo_> --- meeting closed
17:01:26 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:01:42 <jo_> present+ olga
17:04:32 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:07:02 <jo_> ScribeOptions: -oldStyle -nodraft
17:07:05 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:08:53 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
17:09:00 <jo_> s/Ben: trying to share my screen//
17:09:26 <jo_> s/... we wanted to do an end-to-end demo/Ben: we wanted to do an end-to-end demo
17:09:44 <jo_> s/From a consumer/... From a consumer
17:09:53 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:10:48 <jo_> s/noticing that there/noting that there
17:11:38 <jo_> s/What could happen is that the user could go and create an approval/... What could happen is that the user could go and create an approval/
17:13:39 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:13:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:20:26 <jo_> present+ david_sarkis, elizabeth, emily, wilson, richard_F, jeremy_bock, gerardo, laura, letitia, jairy, fernando, roy, Ilya
17:20:31 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:22:10 <jo_> present+ paulC, andrew_mor, caspar
17:22:16 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:24:06 <jo_> present+ caspar
17:24:21 <jo_> present+ paulc
17:24:39 <jo_> present+ andrew_mor
17:24:44 <jo_> rrsagent, make minutes
17:24:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
17:25:23 <jo_> zakim, byte
17:25:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'byte', jo_
17:25:28 <jo_> zakim, bye
17:25:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jo, ben, josh, michelle, belen, markb, nigelp, kyle, ian, paul, michael_aagon, alex, ali, justinas_alisaukas, andrew_dunkley,
17:25:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #md-odrl-profile
17:25:31 <Zakim> ... atiq, ian_bone, jorge_di_pasqua, elizabeth_pritchard, emily, wilson_ferrer, richard_folsom, jeremy, gerardo_kilmurray, laura, letitia, jairy_meneses, mevan, fernando_nitz, roy,
17:25:31 <Zakim> ... ilya, marko, olga, david_sarkis, jeremy_bock, paulC, andrew_mor, caspar
17:25:50 <ben> ben has left #md-odrl-profile
17:25:51 <jo_> rrsagent, byte
17:25:51 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'byte', jo_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:25:58 <jo_> rrsagent, bye
17:25:58 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-actions.rdf :
17:25:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to call first coordination meeting to prepare for FISD [1]
17:25:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-48-33
17:25:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Atiq to arrange break out session on APIs [2]
17:25:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/03/17-md-odrl-profile-irc#T16-58-28