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14:45:37 <avneeshsingh> zakim, this will be epub-a11y
14:45:37 <Zakim> ok, avneeshsingh
14:45:57 <avneeshsingh> present+
14:46:23 <avneeshsingh> chair: avneeshsingh
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15:03:24 <Teenya> present+
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15:04:01 <tzviya> present+
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15:04:27 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/a11y/index.html
15:04:29 <cristina> present+
15:04:51 <cristina> matt has done a restructuring on the document
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15:06:00 <cristina> restructure the different section to make the different section cleare
15:06:07 <CharlesL> present+
15:06:29 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:07:06 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:07:17 <cristina> it may be useful if people can look at the revised document and verify it there is space for improvements
15:07:21 <avneeshsingh> topic: distribution
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15:07:35 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/a11y/index.html#sec-distribution
15:07:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:07:47 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1487
15:08:12 <cristina> Avneesh there are some questions on the distribution section
15:09:02 <gpellegrino> q+
15:09:04 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:09:04 <cristina> this section was added to be in line with the European Accessibility Act highlighting that it is not a normative section
15:09:12 <avneeshsingh> ack gre
15:09:25 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:10:00 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:10:03 <mgarrish> q+
15:10:14 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
15:10:18 <cristina> gregorio we can do as in WCAG as a note where is highlighted that is not normative and it may be only for some legislation in some countries
15:10:53 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:11:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:11:38 <cristina> Matt worry as DRM is always an problematic issue in specs
15:12:01 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:12:05 <cristina> this is one reason to avoid including it
15:12:08 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
15:12:47 <tzviya> q+
15:13:03 <cristina> Bill the ways it actually stated that authors must not impose restrictions while rescrictions are implemented by distributors
15:13:19 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:13:38 <CharlesL> q+
15:13:51 <avneeshsingh> ack tzv
15:14:15 <cristina> matt there are features of DRM that authors or publishers can add and it is important do highlight this issue
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15:14:54 <laurent> present+ laurent
15:15:12 <cristina> Tzviya as it it a requirement of EEA Gregorio may you clarify what is required by the EEA
15:15:51 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:15:59 <avneeshsingh> ack charl
15:16:40 <gpellegrino> q+
15:16:55 <avneeshsingh> ack gp
15:18:33 <avneeshsingh> propoosed: make distribution section non-normitive and place a note that it is requred by EU accessibility act
15:18:38 <CharlesL> +1
15:18:43 <gpellegrino> +1
15:18:49 <tzviya> +1
15:18:56 <laurent> +1
15:18:59 <BenSchroeter> 0
15:19:06 <mgarrish> +1
15:19:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> 0
15:19:12 <avneeshsingh> rsolved
15:19:37 <avneeshsingh> Topic: Update from Cristina
15:20:40 <CharlesL> scribe: gpellegrino
15:21:03 <gpellegrino> cristina: Me and Luc Audrain had a meeting with all the responsible member states
15:21:13 <gpellegrino> ... for implementing the EAA
15:21:28 <gpellegrino> ... we told them the status of the art of EPUB and Accessibility
15:21:50 <CharlesL> s/rsolved/resolved
15:21:54 <gpellegrino> ... they asked us a document, we are producing it telling that standards are already available
15:22:07 <gpellegrino> ... that guidelines for accessibility are there, ecc.
15:22:34 <tzviya> q+ to ask if need input from scholarly community
15:22:44 <gpellegrino> ... also writing the consensus process we have for approving the specs
15:22:50 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:23:09 <gpellegrino> ... this should be a good option to prevent the creation of a new standard
15:23:48 <gpellegrino> ... (harmonized standard from the EU)
15:24:16 <avneeshsingh> ack tzviy
15:24:16 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask if need input from scholarly community
15:24:48 <gpellegrino> tzviya: do you have input about publishers that are not using EPUB? (e.g. scholar publishers)
15:25:16 <gpellegrino> cristina: there may be problems with PDFs
15:25:30 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:25:43 <gpellegrino> tzviya: Yes, I think there may be problems with a11y metadata in PDFs
15:26:44 <gpellegrino> ... I had a meeting with ??? (other publishers) and I would love to have a common solution for accessibility metadata in PDFs
15:27:13 <gpellegrino> cristina: for sure we can work on the document
15:27:22 <gpellegrino> s/???/STM/
15:28:28 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: We will present EPUB Accessibility Guidelines + Schema.org + ONIX
15:28:40 <gpellegrino> ... to the EU commission
15:28:52 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:29:10 <gpellegrino> cristina: we would like to create this document in about one month
15:29:31 <avneeshsingh> topic: Media Overlays section is updated. The requirement of logical reading order is removed from main EPUB 3.3 Media Overlays specs, and placed in EPUB Accessibility.
15:29:44 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/a11y/index.html#sec-mo
15:29:53 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1458
15:30:58 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: the issue is: does the specs have to be so strict on the reading order for MO?
15:31:30 <gpellegrino> ... there are situations where you can have multiple ways to read the same content
15:32:00 <gpellegrino> ... the solution is to remove the requirement of following the reading order
15:32:10 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:32:22 <gpellegrino> ... from the main specs
15:33:11 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:33:59 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:34:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:34:28 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: maybe we can add the requirement from MO to follow the reading order in the EPUB accessibility guidelines
15:35:07 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: I think that in different cases you can have multiple ways to read the content
15:35:32 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: my question came from WCAG where following the reading order is a requirement
15:36:16 <gpellegrino> ... since MO is an alternative for the screenreader, maybe we have to think about this requirement
15:36:59 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:37:08 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: yes, I understand
15:37:09 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
15:37:53 <gpellegrino> Bill_Kasdorf: my question is about skipability
15:38:10 <gpellegrino> ... if I look for a particular paragraph I want to get there
15:38:15 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:38:53 <avneeshsingh> topic: Updated EPUB accessibility for addressing a part of the following static pages issues. Some requirements can be addressed by EPUB Accessibility while others should go to best practices.
15:39:22 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/a11y/index.html#sec-page-nav
15:39:30 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: we had different questions about pagelists
15:39:43 <avneeshsingh> pages related issues:
15:39:45 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1503
15:39:55 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1502
15:40:02 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1501
15:40:09 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1500
15:40:14 <gpellegrino> ... one propose is to structure the requirements for pagelists
15:40:17 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1542
15:40:27 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:40:52 <gpellegrino> e.g. level A: some pages in the pagelist
15:41:15 <gpellegrino> ... level AA: all content pages linked in pagelist
15:41:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/skippability/skippability in publications that don't have a particular reading order, like reference and legal publications/
15:41:33 <tzviya> q+ to talk about "this page intentionally left blank"
15:41:38 <gpellegrino> ... level AAA: all pages (no exclusion, even blank pages)
15:42:17 <gpellegrino> ... I didn't move over with my requirements
15:43:51 <avneeshsingh> ack tzviya
15:43:51 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about "this page intentionally left blank"
15:44:21 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I don't think these issues can be added in the guidelines, maybe the best place is best practices
15:45:10 <gpellegrino> tzviya: we had similar in PDFs with "this page intentionally left blank", where we left blank pages for starting the chapters on page right
15:45:15 <CharlesL> q+
15:45:29 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:45:48 <gpellegrino> ... I think that marking blank pages can be really confusing
15:46:08 <avneeshsingh> ack charles
15:46:15 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can use ARIA
15:46:34 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: yes, but then someone will say that ARIA is not only for AT
15:46:43 <mgarrish> q+
15:46:47 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:46:55 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: I'm not sure if AT can get that information
15:47:01 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:47:37 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: for sure we can investigate the use of ARIA label or something similar
15:47:52 <CharlesL> s/AT/Read Aloud by the Reading system
15:48:31 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I think this task force should focus on the requirements Matt put in the issues
15:49:15 <gpellegrino> ... we can go through the issue tracker
15:49:25 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:49:29 <gpellegrino> ... and discuss there
15:49:59 <mgarrish> q+
15:50:28 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:50:39 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
15:51:03 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: we have a issue about the ordering of the pagelist
15:51:11 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:51:37 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:53:16 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:53:25 <CharlesL> q+
15:53:52 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: if I have the pages moved in the digital version, what happen to the pagelist?
15:54:06 <gpellegrino> tzviya: I have several examples of this
15:54:11 <gpellegrino> q+
15:54:17 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:54:26 <avneeshsingh> ack charle
15:54:30 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I think for AT users it would be useful to have an alert
15:55:00 <avneeshsingh> ack gp
15:55:54 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: maybe we can put in in the accessibility summary (metadata), but do we need to have some requirements for reading systems?
15:56:19 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: maybe something like play order attribute in NCX tocs
15:56:39 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/11-epub-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh
16:00:48 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
16:01:51 <CharlesL> Meeting: EPUB Accessibility TF Meeting
16:02:04 <CharlesL> regrets: George
16:02:10 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/11-epub-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
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