15:56:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
15:56:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/09-wai-curricula-irc
15:56:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:56:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Daniel
15:57:02 <Daniel> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference
15:59:59 <estella> estella has joined #wai-curricula
16:01:06 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wai-curricula
16:01:34 <Gerhard> Gerhard has joined #wai-curricula
16:01:56 <Daniel> Zakim, take up next
16:01:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:02:17 <Gerhard> Present+
16:02:34 <estella> Present+
16:02:48 <CarlosD> present+
16:03:56 <shadi> present+
16:04:01 <shadi> scribe: shadi
16:04:18 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:04:18 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Setting up meeting, choosing scribe https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:05:07 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:05:07 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Sequence for first module "User research and requirements"
16:05:09 <Zakim> ... https://deploy-preview-340--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/user-research-and-requirements/ -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:05:27 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
16:05:38 <Howard> present+ Howard
16:06:55 <shadi> DM: collected different tasks in this area
16:07:12 <shadi> ...just concerned that working with people with disabilities comes at the end
16:07:24 <shadi> ...how can we address this issue?
16:08:30 <shadi> HK: concerned about last bullet point?
16:09:12 <shadi> DM: last topic
16:09:29 <shadi> ...does it convey involving in testing only?
16:10:02 <shadi> CD: not seeing this concern
16:10:39 <shadi> EO: agree with Carlos
16:12:30 <shadi> SAZ: does first bullet need to be limited to "usability testing"?
16:12:44 <shadi> ...could also be involvement in the co-design process
16:13:01 <shadi> ...but just generally, are these designer tasks?
16:13:25 <shadi> CD: agree with Shadi on expanding beyond just "usability testing"
16:13:39 <shadi> ...maybe also not put as first bullet point
16:14:06 <shadi> ...looks like module for UX designers
16:15:35 <shadi> EO: miss terms like "user requirements" and "requirements gathering"
16:18:39 <shadi> SAZ: other topics should also include aspects of involving people with disabilities
16:18:52 <shadi> ...for example for gathering requirements and researching users
16:19:03 <shadi> ...not just create personas and scenarios of them
16:19:18 <shadi> ...also need to include aspects of considering standards
16:19:39 <shadi> ...not everything needs to be researched from scratched
16:20:00 <shadi> ...standards provide a starting point
16:20:05 <shadi> CD: agree with Shadi
16:20:24 <shadi> GN: the latter bullets seem very general
16:20:32 <shadi> ...also apply to people without disabilities
16:20:55 <shadi> ...basic principles of usability and ethics
16:21:15 <shadi> EO: agree, this is part of any research
16:21:34 <shadi> ...data protection laws also apply, confidentiality, ...
16:22:03 <shadi> ...protective of people with disabilities
16:22:16 <shadi> ...may have counter-effect of excluding them
16:23:08 <shadi> DM: agree but some situations require particular attention
16:23:18 <shadi> ...including informed consent
16:23:35 <shadi> EO: you have adapt to their communication
16:23:42 <shadi> ...for example, sign-language
16:24:00 <shadi> ...or easy-to-read instructions
16:24:37 <shadi> CD: agree with Estella and Gerhard
16:24:52 <shadi> ...maybe focus just on these specifically relevant aspects
16:25:06 <shadi> ...also location, for example
16:25:24 <shadi> ...sometimes need to go to their homes/work environment
16:25:31 <shadi> ...rather than them coming to the lab
16:25:56 <shadi> DM: so maybe integrate this last topic into the prior topics
16:26:10 <shadi> ...and in doing that reduce to the most essential parts
16:26:42 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:26:42 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Is "Colors, Styles, and Animations" the best place to discuss   2.3.3 animation from interactions?
16:26:44 <Zakim> ... https://deploy-preview-340--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/colors-styles-and-animations/#topic-seizures-and-physical-reactions -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:28:21 <shadi> DM: is this the right place to talk about animations?
16:28:36 <shadi> ...seizures and physical reactions
16:29:05 <shadi> CD: what about motion and animation not from interaction?
16:29:50 <shadi> ...everything else in this module is not interaction-driven
16:31:15 <shadi> GN: I'm ok with this as-is
16:31:25 <shadi> ...these requirements are together in WCAG
16:31:57 <shadi> EO: agree with both, not sure
16:34:28 <shadi> SAZ: feel Animations is misplaced here but not sure where else
16:34:40 <shadi> ...there are other animations, such as carousels
16:34:53 <shadi> ...also the concept of "change of context"
16:35:11 <shadi> ...these all kind of relate to user interaction and animations
16:35:25 <shadi> ...but not necessarily seizures
16:35:32 <shadi> CD: not sure misplaced here
16:35:51 <shadi> ...but agree with Shadi
16:36:04 <shadi> ...many more criteria from guideline 2.2
16:36:26 <shadi> ...kind of fall under Animations umbrella
16:36:53 <shadi> DM: so need to broaden the scope for sure
16:37:01 <shadi> ...then can decide where it goes
16:37:41 <shadi> EO: agree with Carlos and Shadi
16:37:51 <shadi> ...is Animations the correct term?
16:40:12 <shadi> SAZ: where do we deal with the other types of animations, auto-playing audio, change of context, etc?
16:40:27 <shadi> HK: moving content, like carousels, ads, etc.
16:40:54 <shadi> ...maybe focus on distractions? content that is distracting
16:42:44 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
16:42:44 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Missing Examples of Visual Patterns -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:43:43 <shadi> DM: refer to "distinguishable styles" but don't provide examples
16:44:15 <shadi> ...should we provide examples?
16:44:32 <shadi> ...or enough to say distinguishable styles
16:46:29 <shadi> SAZ: don't think we should provide examples
16:46:40 <shadi> ...also didn't in the developer modules
16:47:09 <shadi> CD: agree, out of scope
16:47:21 <shadi> ...courses should provide these specific examples
16:47:28 <shadi> ...not the curricula
16:47:47 <shadi> EO: agree with Carlos and Shadi
16:47:58 <shadi> ...same approach like previous modules
16:49:14 <shadi> SAZ: maybe make more specific but not as far as examples
16:49:36 <shadi> ...for example, that links should be distinguishable from the text around it
16:49:46 <shadi> ...or heading levels to be each distinctive
16:50:04 <shadi> DM: so not provided the specific patterns but being more specific
16:50:29 <shadi> ...also the sign-posting to the coding aspects associated with this
16:51:07 <shadi> HK: programmatic aspects seems out of scope of design
16:51:28 <shadi> s/design/this part
16:51:37 <shadi> ...more about organization or structure
16:52:43 <shadi> ...for example, for "ensure headings are nested"
16:54:09 <shadi> SAZ: agree, these seem more navigation and orientation
16:54:18 <shadi> ...rather than layout and spacing
16:54:47 <shadi> HK: also should focus on the visuals
16:55:25 <shadi> CD: partially agree
16:55:46 <shadi> ...layout may have particular meaning for designers
16:55:58 <shadi> ...yet they also need to mark-up the content
16:56:25 <shadi> ...not sure it needs to be moved
16:57:05 <shadi> SAZ: maybe split?
16:57:28 <shadi> ...visual aspects of headings and hierarchy is one
16:57:39 <shadi> ...and working with developers to ensure coding is another
16:58:25 <shadi> DM: good input but might not fully address concern from Howard
16:58:53 <shadi> HK: maybe "Layout, Spacing, and Structure"
17:00:24 <shadi> ...visual cues, lists, headings, are for me layout
17:01:06 <shadi> DM: will look into it
17:01:21 <shadi> ...but previously we wanted to move away from terms such as "structure"
17:01:30 <shadi> ...because too developer-oriented
17:02:07 <shadi> EO: need to mention terms such as "responsive design"
17:02:22 <shadi> ...designers look for these types of terminology
17:02:47 <shadi> DM: Gerhard mentioned that last time
17:02:53 <shadi> ...will look into it
17:03:00 <shadi> Topic: Wrap-Up
17:03:12 <shadi> DM: will integrate your feedback
17:03:19 <shadi> ...and work on other modules
17:03:28 <shadi> ...might not neet next week
17:03:36 <shadi> ...but might have a survey soon
17:03:47 <shadi> ...with all 7 modules proposed
17:03:56 <shadi> ...with just the learning outcomes
17:04:08 <shadi> ...to move things around etc.
17:05:10 <Daniel> Rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
17:10:21 <Daniel> S/ neet / meet /
17:10:30 <Daniel> Rrsagent, draft minutes
17:10:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel