20:56:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #merchantbg
20:56:22 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/03/01-merchantbg-irc
20:56:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
20:56:25 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), nicktr
20:56:45 <nicktr> meeting: Merchant Business Group
20:56:51 <nicktr> chair: John O'Brien
20:56:59 <nicktr> scribe: Nick Telford-Reed
20:57:03 <nicktr> scribenick: nicktr
20:57:15 <nicktr> agenda+ matters arising
20:57:40 <nicktr> agenda+ Improving Web Advertising Business Group
20:58:01 <nicktr> agenda+ capturing use cases and best practice
20:58:05 <nicktr> agenda?
20:58:17 <Karen> Karen has joined #merchantbg
21:00:27 <phila_> phila_ has joined #merchantbg
21:02:28 <nicktr> present+ adem_cifcioglu
21:02:52 <nicktr> present+ Nick_telford-Reed
21:03:03 <nicktr> present+ Wendy_Seltzer
21:03:11 <nicktr> present+ KAren_myers
21:03:30 <nicktr> present+ Urs_Gubser
21:03:40 <nicktr> present+ Phil_archer
21:03:49 <nicktr> present+ David_Ezell
21:03:58 <nicktr> present+ Mel_O'Brien
21:04:08 <nicktr> present+ John_O'Brien
21:04:19 <nicktr> present+ Linda_Toth
21:04:26 <nicktr> present+ matthew_Orr
21:04:50 <wseltzer> wseltzer has joined #merchantbg
21:04:51 <dezell> dezell has joined #merchantbg
21:04:55 <Karen> present+
21:05:03 <dezell> present+
21:05:45 <nicktr> zakim, take up item 1
21:05:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- matters arising -- taken up [from nicktr]
21:06:06 <nicktr> job: thanks for joining
21:06:21 <nicktr> ...recaps last meeting
21:07:01 <nicktr> zakim, take up item 2
21:07:01 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Improving Web Advertising Business Group -- taken up [from nicktr]
21:07:57 <nicktr> wseltzer: [introductions]
21:08:42 <nicktr> ...W3C is all about reaching consensus
21:08:50 <nicktr> ...hearing needs and use cases
21:09:40 <nicktr> ...explains changes to browser behaviour around privacy
21:10:12 <nicktr> ...how do we stop tracking but still allow monetization opportunities
21:10:59 <nicktr> ...Improving Web Advertising Business group has more than 300 members
21:12:04 <nicktr> wseltzer: we have built out a table of use cases from lots of different ecosystem players
21:12:43 <nicktr> ...we mostly work in Github
21:12:55 <nicktr> ...we have dozens of proposals
21:13:09 <nicktr> ...and we have weekly teleconferences
21:13:20 <nicktr> with hundreds of participants
21:13:46 <nicktr> ...at which we generally hear about one or two use cases
21:14:39 <nicktr> ...though sometimes we also do more introductory topics
21:15:53 <nicktr> wseltzer: explains how IWABG fits into wider w3c community
21:16:31 <nicktr> ...specifications to existing or new working groups
21:16:50 <nicktr> ...incubation in the web platform incubation community group
21:17:04 <nicktr> ...external liaison
21:17:18 <nicktr> wseltzer: explains use case document
21:18:57 <nicktr> nicktr: can you say more about moving from "needs" to "spec"
21:19:19 <nicktr> wseltzer: starts with an incubation
21:19:55 <nicktr> ...and then W3C team works with the more mature proposals to move into a working group
21:20:22 <dezell> q+
21:20:44 <Karen> q+
21:21:00 <nicktr> ...although not a popularity contest, the proposal needs to be able to get traction
21:21:14 <nicktr> karen: can you say more about how the proposed cohort model works differently from the cookie model?
21:21:29 <nicktr> ack Karen
21:21:57 <nicktr> wseltzer: we have a series of proposals knowns as the "birds" which started with "FLOCK" from google
21:22:35 <nicktr> ...ad targeting has historically been about tracking individuals (mostly by cookies)
21:22:59 <nicktr> ...that's clearly a privacy concern
21:23:44 <Karen> s/FLOCK/FLoC
21:23:50 <nicktr> ...the cohort idea groups users together
21:24:06 <nicktr> ...done locally in the browser
21:24:38 <nicktr> ...and once the cohort is big enough (say 1000 users) the group is offered up to advertisers
21:26:03 <nicktr> dezell: how to you prove that you should be in a cohort?
21:26:34 <nicktr> ...especially for age-restricted product
21:26:51 <nicktr> wseltzer: that's not something that we've talked about yet
21:27:06 <nicktr> ...or identity based solutions
21:27:18 <nicktr> ...but it is interesting and you'd be welcome to bring it to the group
21:27:36 <nicktr> ack dezell
21:29:15 <nicktr> phila_: am struck by success of the group with many members
21:29:33 <nicktr> ...this merchantBG is still very small
21:29:41 <nicktr> ...what did you get right?
21:32:44 <nicktr> wseltzer: I think deprecating third-party cookies had a huge effect, and the IWABG was seen as a place to talk to browsers
21:32:46 <dezell> q+
21:33:49 <nicktr> dezell: I think we have burning platform issues too - one use case is proximity based selling - how to do that in a privacy protecting way?
21:34:16 <MarkS> MarkS has joined #merchantBG
21:34:55 <nicktr> wseltzer: I think that the place to start is in the use cases - and to explore possible solutions
21:36:07 <nicktr> karen: are retailers aware that there are changes coming?
21:37:41 <nicktr> nicktr: I don't think so
21:38:28 <nicktr> phila_: there are lots of disconnects in big businesses
21:40:29 <nicktr> ...what are the things that folk in this group think is important, and can talk to other people in their own  organisations
21:41:52 <nicktr> wseltzer: I think that's the key - we don't need to come up with the answer. It's good enough to come up with a problem that solving would make the web better
21:43:55 <nicktr> zakim, take up item 3
21:43:55 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- capturing use cases and best practice -- taken up [from nicktr]
21:44:15 <nicktr> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PsZy0uz0orjsyxB8-30V-rclzdKWlMfcG-Yoa0nRwpE/edit#heading=h.zctnwadrwxf0
21:46:37 <dezell> q+
21:47:32 <nicktr> dezell: none of these topics are "burning" - especially EMV
21:47:55 <nicktr> ...there's a very short hop from advertising to selling
21:48:42 <nicktr> ...let's categorise some of these issues as urgent and critical
21:49:21 <dezell> q+
21:49:30 <nicktr> ack dezell
21:49:43 <nicktr> dezell: I see digital receipts as being cirtical
21:51:19 <dezell> agree that accessibility is crucial
21:52:10 <nicktr> melob: accessibility is definitely a critical issue for us - especially for an ageing population
21:53:01 <dezell> i will volunteer
21:53:32 <nicktr> karen: could group develop a survey and get out to a representative segment of retailers?
21:54:22 <nicktr> nicktr: how did that get out to the community
21:54:22 <dezell> q+
21:54:42 <nicktr> karen: local personal networks, social networks
21:55:43 <nicktr> phila_: most retailers put structured data in their sites - but is not made accessible
21:56:03 <nicktr> ...I would love to see that happen because it makes things easier to find
21:58:04 <nicktr> dezell: I have a concrete use case - much product searching is now done by voice assistants like Siri and Alexa
21:58:22 <nicktr> karen: W3C has a voice accessibility task force
21:58:43 <nicktr> present+ ian
21:59:37 <nicktr> ian: we have participants like MAG and Connexus who may have a list of hot issues that we can use to jump start the conversations
22:00:26 <dezell> s/Connexus/Conexxus/g
22:01:08 <nicktr> topic: next meeting 15th March, 2021 at 21h00
22:03:33 <nicktr> RRSAgent: make minutes
22:03:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/03/01-merchantbg-minutes.html nicktr
22:04:12 <nicktr> RRSAgent: set logs public
22:04:18 <nicktr> zakim, bye
22:04:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been adem_cifcioglu, Nick_telford-Reed, Wendy_Seltzer, KAren_myers, Urs_Gubser, Phil_archer, David_Ezell, Mel_O'Brien, John_O'Brien,
22:04:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #merchantbg
22:04:21 <Zakim> ... Linda_Toth, matthew_Orr, Karen, dezell, ian