13:30:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
13:30:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/26-eo-irc
13:30:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:30:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference
13:30:38 <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2021
13:30:40 <shawn> Chair: Brent
13:30:48 <shawn> zakim, who is here?
13:30:48 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
13:30:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, brentb, MarkPalmer, shawn, shadi, github-bot, Daniel, Rachael, ZoeBijl, hdv, jcraig, trackbot
13:30:51 <shawn> present+
13:31:37 <shadi> present+
13:31:45 <kevin> kevin has joined #eo
13:32:04 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
13:32:06 <shawn> present+ Jason, Sharron, Brent, Mark, Leticia, Daniel
13:33:12 <Sharron> present+
13:33:21 <Sharron> trackbot, start meeting
13:33:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:33:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference
13:33:27 <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2021
13:33:32 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:33:32 <Zakim> Present: shawn, shadi, Jason, Sharron, Brent, Mark, Leticia, Daniel
13:33:59 <shawn> present+ Hidde, Jade, Kevin
13:34:08 <Jade> Jade has joined #eo
13:34:26 <shawn> present+ Carlos
13:35:36 <Daniel> present+
13:36:44 <Sharron> Chair: Brent
13:36:49 <Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
13:36:52 <Howard> Howard has joined #eo
13:37:18 <Howard> present+ Howard
13:37:38 <Sharron> Regrets: Estella, Vicki,  KrisAnne
13:38:00 <shawn> present+ KrisAnne
13:38:16 <Sharron> regrets- KrisAnne
13:38:26 <krisannekinney> krisannekinney has joined #eo
13:38:52 <hdv> present+
13:38:53 <JasonMcKee> JasonMcKee has joined #eo
13:40:44 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #eo
13:43:08 <Sharron> Topic: New Project Accessibility Course List
13:45:14 <Sharron> Brent: We sent materials in advance, asking you to re-familiarize yourselves with the Tools List. The plan for now is to consider the organziation of the Tools List as a model for another one to list accessibility courses.
13:46:07 <krisannekinney> present+
13:46:46 <CarlosD> present+
13:46:53 <Sharron> ...These will not be W3C courses necessarily but will be a database of exisiting courses. As courses are added to the database it will include attributes that are searchable. We will look a the requirements document now. Shadi?
13:47:10 <JasonMcKee> present+
13:47:21 <shawn> WAI-CooP
13:47:44 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/
13:47:48 <Sharron> Shadi: This is part of an EU funded project called WAI-Coop
13:48:38 <Sharron> ...there are other projects that are part of it but today's focus is on the timeline and requirements for this List and I will let Carlos talk about that.
13:50:07 <Sharron> Carlos: We are pleased to be part of it and think this is an improtant resource. This will be a place to look for current up to date offerings for people to learn about accessibility across several roles: developers, HR, managers, buyers, etc. Wnting to be sure that people have the requisite knowledge in accessibility.
13:51:30 <Sharron> ...We are following the format of the List of Tools, we plan to provide filtering capablility, so institutions or individuals can find the type of learning they need. Trying now to define what is eleigible to be listed.
13:51:31 <brentb> q?
13:52:41 <Sharron> ...Want to help people understand the charasterisitices of each course and have made a submission form to support that. We expect to have it operational within a year and a half and then use the second perood to curate and improve the List and the submission process and tool.
13:54:57 <Sharron> ...We are ready to review these requirements and once that is settled will begin wtih the design. We will develop and finalize the concpet within the next 4 months. We will do some tests with a small number of sample offerings to be sure we have a good process in place.
13:55:41 <kevin> s/concpet /concept/
13:55:55 <Sharron> ...That is the overview, are there any comments or questions at this time?
13:55:59 <kevin> s/Wnting /Wanting /
13:57:30 <Sharron> Brent: Open the floor to the group so we can move ahead with formalizing the requirements and let the group get started with development. For example, I was wondering if the Requirements Doc is meant to just describe the Tool or do we also need to consdier the submission process?
13:58:37 <Sharron> Shawn: Based on what we've done before, there is no preference from EO whether it is part of Requirments or if it becomes a separate Process document. We just need to know.
13:59:40 <Sharron> Carlos: That is something we have have not detailed here but have referenced the need to develop the process of work flow and documentation. But we are not able to do that within this document because we do not yet know enough.
14:00:16 <Sharron> Shadi: look at the audience, it is really improtant that we have captured it correctly and are all on board with this.
14:00:24 <kevin> q+
14:01:18 <Sharron> Jason: So are we making courses for people who want to become a software tester?
14:01:52 <Sharron> Carlos: I don't quite understand the question.
14:02:31 <Sharron> Jason: So I see this as a way for people with disabilities to train to be testers, is that correct?
14:03:12 <Sharron> Carlos: Yes we want to include people with disabilities as people to be trained as software testers.
14:03:19 <brentb> ack kevin
14:03:30 <Sharron> Jason: Great I wanted to be sure that audience was included
14:04:38 <Sharron> Kevin: We have a training department in our team. So is that an audience that fits into what is listed here as education, training, and certification?
14:05:11 <Sharron> Carlos: We are consdiering them as the ones who may enter offerings into the system.
14:05:37 <Sharron> s/consdiering/considering
14:05:56 <krisannekinney> q+
14:07:38 <Sharron> Kevin: Our trainers look for accessiiblity training for various roles within our Digital Professionals team. I don't think we are unique. Trainers looking for material to incorporate into their own training.
14:07:41 <MarkPalmer> +1
14:07:48 <brentb> q+
14:08:15 <Sharron> Shadi: The primary audience is the one individual who wants to get the training and this may be a secondary audience.
14:08:30 <MarkPalmer> q+
14:08:53 <brentb> ack  kris
14:08:55 <Sharron> Kevin: Not sure I agree, since these training department people will be looking for the trainings for t=individuals who may nt know they need it.
14:09:22 <kevin> +1 to there being two broad groups: looking for myself and looking to create a programme
14:09:55 <kevin> s/t=individuals who may nt/individuals who may not/
14:10:15 <brentb> ack me
14:10:22 <Sharron> Brent: I competely agree with Kevin. My role is to find training for my team and I do not match any of those listed as primary audience and think it should be. People who train others at large organziations.
14:10:27 <Sharron> KrisAnne: +1
14:10:43 <krisannekinney> q+
14:10:47 <brentb> ack mark
14:11:23 <Sharron> Mark: I think procurers would be very much a primary audience. it is the hook that everything else hangs from.
14:12:38 <shawn> q+ to suggest simplifying
14:12:40 <Sharron> Shadi: This is a procurer who browses to find language maybe for an RFP but not the person who actualyy finds and chooses the course. It is those who want to use these courses off the shelf.
14:13:09 <Sharron> Brent: The Primary purpose uses the tool, the secondary utilizes it.
14:13:17 <Sharron> Shadi: ???
14:13:24 <brentb> ack kris
14:13:58 <LeticiaSeixas> LeticiaSeixas has joined #eo
14:14:13 <Sharron> KrisAnne: As a person who gets questions often about "I want to learn more about xxxx" and expect me to find it. Is there a way to know what level the courses are - Basic, Intermediate, Advanced etc?
14:14:16 <shawn> q-
14:14:45 <kevin> q+
14:15:09 <Sharron> ...is there a plan to indicate levels of knowledge? Is there a plan for review by people who have taking the course, if it was useful of not?
14:17:17 <Sharron> ...the list could get long and it can be overwhelming
14:17:46 <Sharron> ...as people take the class they have the option to say how it was.
14:19:18 <Sharron> Shadi: Not practical with our resources, possibility of fake reviews, etc. Can we find other ways of marking ? We built in and did not emphasize the option to disclose its own accessibility.
14:20:49 <Sharron> ...we are rebuilding the Tools List and are improving filters. Maybe have an option during submission to link to reviews of previous? Or how many people have taken the course?
14:21:39 <Sharron> ...let's capture what needs to be in the filtering, want to be sure we capture the Level - beginner, intermediate, advanced.
14:21:46 <shawn> q+ to clarify "Date of last course listing information update" and maybe *add* when was the course itself?
14:22:34 <Sharron> Carlos: Yes the WAI curricula is organziated among those levels.
14:22:36 <brentb> ack kevin
14:23:34 <Sharron> Kevin: All of thse audiences are consumers and you also have the audience of providers. How it benefits and helps them. I would be checking this regularly to be sure my offerings are measuring up to the competition. Market analysis.
14:24:30 <brentb> ack shawn
14:24:30 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to clarify "Date of last course listing information update" and maybe *add* when was the course itself?
14:25:11 <Sharron> Shawn: May want to add information about when the course materials and content itself was updated?
14:25:29 <Sharron> Kevin: It is something that the Open University does.
14:26:12 <Sharron> Shadi: The primary audience is the consumer and the provider.
14:27:15 <Sharron> ...consumers who try to find course that meet internal requirments. Providers are the ones who make and submit the courses to the database.
14:27:46 <kevin> q+
14:27:56 <brentb> ack kevin
14:29:14 <Sharron> Kevin: I see the consumer with 2 fold: One is me as an individual and the other is a team building organziational training. Not sure what the filters might be. Two slightly different sets of needs.
14:30:10 <Sharron> Shadi: So there is still a question about if there is a difference between the individual consumer and the organziational one.
14:30:50 <Sharron> Carlos: May also want to make the same distinction about the individual provider and an institutional one such as a University.
14:32:02 <Sharron> Shadi: Does this relate to a difference between formal, accredited training and professional development, and an individual who creates an online course?
14:33:37 <JasonMcKee> q+
14:33:46 <Sharron> KrisAnne: Can we designate private vs public education?
14:33:48 <shawn> q+
14:34:10 <Sharron> Kevin: The course either standd alone or are part of a larger program
14:34:21 <Sharron> s/standd/stands
14:34:59 <shawn> q+ to document hidden agendas - motivations - more substance in "Objectives" section :-)
14:35:43 <brentb> ack jason
14:36:52 <Sharron> Jason: Let's anticipate its success and really pay attention to managing the scale. Filtering to indicate that it is accredited and other categories. Defining those will be critical.
14:37:26 <brentb> ack shawn
14:37:26 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to document hidden agendas - motivations - more substance in "Objectives" section :-)
14:37:39 <Sharron> Shadi: Yes I think Carlos and Leticia will have to do research about community colleges, other institutions, may they contact you?
14:37:42 <Sharron> Jason: yes
14:38:42 <Sharron> Shawn: Mke the objectives section have a bit more substance to include motivations and even some of the hidden agendas we've been discussing.
14:39:05 <Sharron> Shadi: Any other comments for today?
14:39:48 <Sharron> Carlos: About process, we will update document based on these comments and then do we discuss again?
14:39:59 <Sharron> Shawn: Maybe, or may be able to do as a survey.
14:40:50 <Sharron> Brent: thanks you all!
14:41:17 <Sharron> Topic: Speech Recognition
14:41:42 <Sharron> Brent: Have seen discussion on the W3C lists about this topic - Shawn?
14:42:27 <Sharron> Shawn: I've been in accessibility for more than 20 year and I just learned something I was doing wrong and found that my misunderstanding was shared by many.
14:42:45 <Sharron> ...voice recongition identifies who a person is
14:43:06 <Sharron> ...speech recognition identifies the meaning of words.
14:43:46 <Sharron> ...we found we had to fix videos and the usage of those terms. Please look at the change to the Perspectives video, link to the video and the markup diff
14:44:05 <Sharron> ...does it look OK to everyone?
14:44:40 <Sharron> Kevin: Has the video changed?
14:45:23 <brentb> q?
14:45:27 <Sharron> Shawn: No, in the transcript there is a note about the change. Are there pros and cons to how to manage that?
14:46:36 <Sharron> Kevin: I get why we can't redo the video itself but people may not understand the resource constraint and just be confused.
14:47:28 <Sharron> ...if you call it out early enough. The market has changed to one with more consumer focus. We can call out "we will address when we can" in nice words.
14:48:02 <Sharron> Shawn: There are two things: Could redo the whole video or we can redo the endplates and voice over.
14:48:57 <Sharron> KrisAnne: Can we just explain it on the page, why the change was made. Not a bad thing.
14:49:32 <Sharron> Shawn: if you look under the transcript there is a blurb.
14:49:36 <shawn> https://deploy-preview-41--wai-perspective-videos.netlify.app/perspective-videos/voice/#transcript
14:49:52 <kevin> +1 to Kris Anne's idea
14:50:21 <Sharron> KrisAnne: If you put a more through explanation of the difference, that will be helpful.
14:50:30 <Sharron> Brent: And a learning opportunity.
14:51:37 <Sharron> Shawn: I'll change the title, consider how much we can change in the video itself, and add a deeper explanation of the difference.
14:51:44 <kevin> +1
14:52:27 <hdv> +1 to publish changes to the text
14:52:30 <JasonMcKee> +1
14:52:32 <Sharron> s/add a deeper explanation of the difference./move the explanation of the difference to a more prominent place.
14:52:33 <CarlosD> +1
14:52:36 <Jade> +1
14:52:36 <brentb> +1
14:52:41 <shadi> +1
14:52:42 <MarkPalmer> +1
14:52:43 <kevin> +1 to publish changes to the text
14:52:44 <krisannekinney> +1
14:52:49 <Howard> +1
14:52:58 <Daniel> +1
14:53:29 <Daniel> And maybe set up a redirect from the old one
14:55:03 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Style#speech-recognition
14:55:15 <Sharron> Shawn: Any comments on the wording in the style guide?
14:56:02 <Sharron> ...or otehr comments?
14:56:12 <Sharron> s/otehr/other
14:56:23 <Sharron> Carlos: typo
14:56:31 <Sharron> ...should be STT
14:58:00 <Sharron> Topic: WAI project volunteer opportunities
14:58:05 <brentb> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Project_Opportunities
14:58:15 <Sharron> Shawn: Putting out a call for volunteers
14:59:06 <Sharron> ...several that require skills and time commitment
15:00:08 <Sharron> ...please review, see if you have any questions or comments
15:00:47 <Sharron> Sharron: Do they need to be participating meber orgs?
15:01:05 <Sharron> Shawn: No but they may have to be temp Invited Experts.
15:01:53 <Sharron> ...will make that easy
15:08:33 <Sharron> Shawn: Will think about how to distribute...and other comments?
15:11:03 <Sharron> Topic: WrapUp
15:12:25 <Sharron> Brent: Will be keeping the page up to date with informational, optional, and required work. Please keep this in mind. We have some monor changes listed there now for your optional review. We are happy to discuss and consider any objections or questions you amy have.
15:12:40 <Sharron> ...other piece is to provide input on open GitHub issues
15:13:49 <Sharron> ...any questions, comments
15:18:29 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
15:18:29 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:18:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shawn, shadi, Jason, Sharron, Brent, Mark, Leticia, Daniel, Hidde, Jade, Kevin, Carlos, Howard, KrisAnne, hdv, krisannekinney, CarlosD,
15:18:32 <Zakim> ... JasonMcKee
15:18:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:18:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/26-eo-minutes.html trackbot
15:18:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:18:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items